Every parent pays for their childs education, just some pays twice. Should how much one cares have a price tag on it and written off on taxes. So does that mean a parent who sits at home and homeschools(and does not work in turn paying more) someone loves their child more than the other two methods, becuase they spend so much of their time with the child?
It's hard to generalize about public and private schools on a nationwide level. It doesn't depend even on the school individually but more on the state or local authorities who fund them. When I went to high school here in Georgia in the late '80s, public schools basically sucked, and that was the consensus. The school I would have attended was overcrowded by about 1000 students -- that's the amount OVER the limit, which was about 1500 (with 2500 in attendance). There was little choice for my parents but to send me to private school, and I wound up at one of the best in the city. Since that school was rather expensive (approx. $5000/year), there were opportunities there that were not present in public schools, and the teachers, classes, and extracurricular activities were all of top notch quality (well, most of the teachers at any rate). For an example, I think 176 out of 177 of my classmates went to college, and that one guy broke a string of 100% attendance from the previous years.
Now that the lottery is funding the school system here with several billion going into the system, things have improved by a large margin, but there are still some nagging problems. Overcrowding has eased considerably, but the quality of the education overall still does not match the quality available at the top private schools (there are numerous given the state of the education system previously).
That being said, my wife went to public school in northern Virginia, which is widely regarded as having one of the best school districts in the country. She received a very good education (one notable difference in comparison to mine was the relative lack of Advanced Placement classes -- my school had somewhere around 15-20 different ones, hers had about 6) in the public system. The Northeast in general has a very good public school system while the Southeast is somewhat considered second rate. Some states and communities are better than others, but the relative affluence of local communities also contributes to the quality of the local district (because of property taxes).
You could also draw an analog with universities -- there are good and bad public universities (University of Virginia for a good one) and good and bad private universities (Harvard perhaps for a good one?).
Now that the lottery is funding the school system here with several billion going into the system, things have improved by a large margin, but there are still some nagging problems. Overcrowding has eased considerably, but the quality of the education overall still does not match the quality available at the top private schools (there are numerous given the state of the education system previously).
That being said, my wife went to public school in northern Virginia, which is widely regarded as having one of the best school districts in the country. She received a very good education (one notable difference in comparison to mine was the relative lack of Advanced Placement classes -- my school had somewhere around 15-20 different ones, hers had about 6) in the public system. The Northeast in general has a very good public school system while the Southeast is somewhat considered second rate. Some states and communities are better than others, but the relative affluence of local communities also contributes to the quality of the local district (because of property taxes).
You could also draw an analog with universities -- there are good and bad public universities (University of Virginia for a good one) and good and bad private universities (Harvard perhaps for a good one?).
Well, interesting topic. Kudos.
I am entirely a product of public school education (in Mississippi, no less) until I went to college. I went to a small religious college, and a state university for my two M.A.'s. I then taught two years in the public school system and administered a program for 3 years that sent teachers to poor public schools in the state.
Now I'm maintaining a computer lab and teaching part-time at a small Catholic school. (Interestingly, all the Catholic schools in my area are accredited by the same agency as the public schools, and require their teachers to be state certified. I don't know how common that is in other areas.)
It's hard to address all the interesting and important issues in this discussion, so I'll try to limit this post to one or two. The most striking thing I've noticed about the public schools is the dedication of the teachers. Those of you who have no respect for the faculty of your school, or think your teachers are there for the "summers off" or because they can't do anything else, are sorely mistaken. It would amaze you to see how much difference the administrative staff (primarily Principal and assts.) make in a school. Those same teachers who seem so unconcerned and unmotivated are often simply burdened by micro-managing or incompetent superiors, pressure from state curriculum guidelines and testing, and/or discipline problems beyond their ability to control. I have seen over and over a new principal come in and motivate a staff that I thought should be thrown out on their collective asses. And don't get the idea that "the problem is the administration" - they often are also dedicated people. It's just that it starts at the top, and all cylinders have to be firing for the engine to run.
Last note - I am also amazed at how effective and talented private schools are at operating on tight budgets. Of course, I'm not talking about Andover or the like, but the huge majority of private schools which scrap for funding. The school I just joined is running a computer lab of 15 Gateway P-66...yes, that's Pentium 66....with 16mb of memory, and 15 P133's. The server is running FreeBSD with Samba so it can share resources with a Win95 network. I believe all the computers were donated. Absolutely amazing...the dedication and ingenuity of the principal of that school. And the inside of the building looks like a throwback to the 50's, but the teachers keep right on at it.
It's not a matter of public vs. private, but of funding priorities and community support. It is an absolute mockery that teachers come under the criticism and scrutiny that they do, while making a fraction of the pay and getting a fraction of respect of the other professionals.
I am entirely a product of public school education (in Mississippi, no less) until I went to college. I went to a small religious college, and a state university for my two M.A.'s. I then taught two years in the public school system and administered a program for 3 years that sent teachers to poor public schools in the state.
Now I'm maintaining a computer lab and teaching part-time at a small Catholic school. (Interestingly, all the Catholic schools in my area are accredited by the same agency as the public schools, and require their teachers to be state certified. I don't know how common that is in other areas.)
It's hard to address all the interesting and important issues in this discussion, so I'll try to limit this post to one or two. The most striking thing I've noticed about the public schools is the dedication of the teachers. Those of you who have no respect for the faculty of your school, or think your teachers are there for the "summers off" or because they can't do anything else, are sorely mistaken. It would amaze you to see how much difference the administrative staff (primarily Principal and assts.) make in a school. Those same teachers who seem so unconcerned and unmotivated are often simply burdened by micro-managing or incompetent superiors, pressure from state curriculum guidelines and testing, and/or discipline problems beyond their ability to control. I have seen over and over a new principal come in and motivate a staff that I thought should be thrown out on their collective asses. And don't get the idea that "the problem is the administration" - they often are also dedicated people. It's just that it starts at the top, and all cylinders have to be firing for the engine to run.
Last note - I am also amazed at how effective and talented private schools are at operating on tight budgets. Of course, I'm not talking about Andover or the like, but the huge majority of private schools which scrap for funding. The school I just joined is running a computer lab of 15 Gateway P-66...yes, that's Pentium 66....with 16mb of memory, and 15 P133's. The server is running FreeBSD with Samba so it can share resources with a Win95 network. I believe all the computers were donated. Absolutely amazing...the dedication and ingenuity of the principal of that school. And the inside of the building looks like a throwback to the 50's, but the teachers keep right on at it.
It's not a matter of public vs. private, but of funding priorities and community support. It is an absolute mockery that teachers come under the criticism and scrutiny that they do, while making a fraction of the pay and getting a fraction of respect of the other professionals.
<< Parents are the problem, not the schools. >>
Ricky nailed it right there, "Parents are the key." One difference in my area is that in the public schools kids have more chances to blow off the the college prep courses. I know my parents never took an interest in my classes as long as I got good grades so I never applied myself like I should have and I have regretted my whole life. I was not well prepped for college level courses even though I'm intelligent and a quick study, I didn't have the study habits I should have had.
The Parochial schools here are college prep schools and as such don't allow for kids to take "goof off" classes. All classes are geared towards kids preparing to go to college. Also they force more parent involvement which is the key.
My kids attend Parochial schools not just for the curricullum, but also the religious education, but I firmly believe that with parent involvelment a kid can get just as good an eduction in the Public School system.
Regardless of where my kids go, they will be prepared for college, that's one mistake I learned well from my parents.
I also went to a public school. Cardozo in Bayside Queens. I think I had a quality education there. 96% of my class went to college so it couldnt have been too bad.
Actually studies show, after the socio-economic bias is taken into account & the selectivity issue is also taken into account (you need to pass an entrance exam to get into most private schools), that private schools on average perform worse than public schools.
However as far as extra-curricular activities are concerned, there are some benefits, as many private schools have the extra dosh to (for example) get outside music tuition experts to come in, & professional Rugby coachs, that sort of thing. But really thats the parents money doing that, not the school.
However as far as extra-curricular activities are concerned, there are some benefits, as many private schools have the extra dosh to (for example) get outside music tuition experts to come in, & professional Rugby coachs, that sort of thing. But really thats the parents money doing that, not the school.
I had an excellent public school education, and like unxpurg8d decided to throw it away at 16. My kids are taught by their teachers, and their mother. I sit up every night working with my learning disabled son to help him understand concepts that come so easy to other kids. He wants to learn, and I want to help him go as far as he can in life. So I put the effort into helping him achieve his goals. Parents need to take more responsibility for their children. Everybody always wants to point fingers, instead of realizing that maybe the blame lies with them as parents.
I went to public school here in NC and I think I was taught by caring individuals that tried to give me all the knowledge that they could.
There was also a private scool in my neighborhood and I don't think that those teachers gave any less or any more to those kids than did mine.
Now Moving Target I don't think anyone was trying to call you a liar or get your goat but saying,
"Students in Private Schools have parents that care enough about them to pay to send them somewhere else"
sure makes you sound like some snobby rich bastard that believes because someone can't afford to pay for a private school to send their kids to like you makes them out to be bad/shitty/uncaring.:disgust:
I went to public school way back ('87 grad) but things have changed for the worst.
Now the only way to back up that statement is to say you are a teacher or know a teacher in the school that you graduated from! Otherwise you are making a generalization about public schools that is patently false.:frown:
Now in the South we call what your wife does instructing. Thats not to say that she doesn't teach these kids to dance but I think we should keep the moniker "teacher" for the school workers to simplify things.
Mother in-law, private school teacher(Is she private because of the money/Kids/or because thats where the job was she could find) Just curious.
Now I don't know you and I've not bashed you so please don't take it that way, but I do question some of your writings and that is the basis of my reply to this thread.
There was also a private scool in my neighborhood and I don't think that those teachers gave any less or any more to those kids than did mine.
Now Moving Target I don't think anyone was trying to call you a liar or get your goat but saying,
"Students in Private Schools have parents that care enough about them to pay to send them somewhere else"
sure makes you sound like some snobby rich bastard that believes because someone can't afford to pay for a private school to send their kids to like you makes them out to be bad/shitty/uncaring.:disgust:
I went to public school way back ('87 grad) but things have changed for the worst.
Now the only way to back up that statement is to say you are a teacher or know a teacher in the school that you graduated from! Otherwise you are making a generalization about public schools that is patently false.:frown:
Now in the South we call what your wife does instructing. Thats not to say that she doesn't teach these kids to dance but I think we should keep the moniker "teacher" for the school workers to simplify things.
Mother in-law, private school teacher(Is she private because of the money/Kids/or because thats where the job was she could find) Just curious.
Now I don't know you and I've not bashed you so please don't take it that way, but I do question some of your writings and that is the basis of my reply to this thread.
Public schools offer a decent education to those that are willing earn the education. The key word is earn. Many schools are just as willing to give a dimploma to those that went thru the motions or those that earned it. How else do
we have illiterates graduating?
Public education has learn that is OK to fail people and hold people back. If you fail in basic education, chances are you going to fall flat on your face in the real world. Public education is not doing anybody any favors my passing people who have not made the grade.
we have illiterates graduating?
Public education has learn that is OK to fail people and hold people back. If you fail in basic education, chances are you going to fall flat on your face in the real world. Public education is not doing anybody any favors my passing people who have not made the grade.
CliffC,
"Students in Private Schools have parents that care enough about them to pay to send them somewhere else"
This was a bad way to word it I guess, I should have said People that don't care about their kids are not going to pay to send their kids somewhere else.
My brother did work at the school that he and I went to. My younger brother is thier know, and from what I have heard from both of them it HAS gone down hill.
"Students in Private Schools have parents that care enough about them to pay to send them somewhere else"
This was a bad way to word it I guess, I should have said People that don't care about their kids are not going to pay to send their kids somewhere else.
My brother did work at the school that he and I went to. My younger brother is thier know, and from what I have heard from both of them it HAS gone down hill.
it makes me feel great that my mom cared about me enough to pay for most of my education. I was in both private and public schools. Let me just say that the public school sucked ass!
unxpurg8d
Golden Member
- Apr 7, 2000
- 1,373
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Actually, Moving Target, I think you have that a little wrong also. Plenty of parents who don't care about their children spend a LOT of money sending them elsewhere - boarding schools, for instance. The fact that a parent pays for a private school - or doesn't - is no way indicative of how much a parent cares about a child and his/her education. Economic factors play a major role in that decision, not just whether a parent "cares".
EDIT: FFMCobalt, your mommy spent all that money on your education and the best phraseology you can come up with is "sucked ass"??????? Wonder if she can get a refund.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
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I grew up in a small community and attended the public schools. The nearest private school was a 30 mile drive.
My high school had about 200 students, my graduating class had about 52. Average class size was about 17. We co-opped with a neighboring school that tad smaller in all but one sport (basketball). This co-op gave us some extra $$ for sports and a better pool of athletes.
As far as the education goes, I feel that it was excellent. When I went into college, I felt more than prepared for the classes that I took. Then again, as for me, as well as many of us, it is hard to judge the quality of the school, as opposed to the quality of the student. I graduated sixth in my class and got the most that I could out of my high school education. The smaller school made it easier for me to participate in sports that I wouldn't have been able to make the cut for in the larger schools. The small size also made it very easy for a teacher to go one on one with a student if he/she was having troubles.
I don't feel that private schools are better than public in general, but in the extreme cases, I believe that there may be situations where the private solution may be the better. Two of these extremes that I can think of are incredibly small public schools, and oversized, overcrowded, public schools.
When a school is too small, it will not have the resources both financially, and personel wise to provide a student with enough choices.
When a school is too big, it makes for too many choices and often lacks the refinement that a smaller situation can provide. A larger student body makes it harder for a teacher to see students with learning problems and in turn, making it easier for students to pass that probably shouldn't. Another problem with large schools is sports. Many large schools make it next to impossible for a student who has the desire, but not the talent to participate in sports. In a smaller environment, this is not a problem.
In my opinion, private schools are an option, but not a solution. Many of the private schools around my area are catholic/religious based. I would never subject my child to that...but that's another thread From my experience, the catholic high schools generally had higher drug/alchol abuse rates than the public schools. But then, this is just my experience with working with several private schooled students from various private schools throughout my high school years.
And, as many have stated, it's the parents - especially the mothers, that provide the educational encouragement that a child needs to excel in schools. Multiple studies have shown that if a child's mother expresses interest in her child's education, the child will do better in school than if the father, or in worse case, no parent, shows support. This alone, can be the determining factor in how effective a school is.
I won't say that I would never send my children to a private school, but I will say that it be highly more likely that I would pay the tuition difference to have my child go to a better public school in my area first.
My high school had about 200 students, my graduating class had about 52. Average class size was about 17. We co-opped with a neighboring school that tad smaller in all but one sport (basketball). This co-op gave us some extra $$ for sports and a better pool of athletes.
As far as the education goes, I feel that it was excellent. When I went into college, I felt more than prepared for the classes that I took. Then again, as for me, as well as many of us, it is hard to judge the quality of the school, as opposed to the quality of the student. I graduated sixth in my class and got the most that I could out of my high school education. The smaller school made it easier for me to participate in sports that I wouldn't have been able to make the cut for in the larger schools. The small size also made it very easy for a teacher to go one on one with a student if he/she was having troubles.
I don't feel that private schools are better than public in general, but in the extreme cases, I believe that there may be situations where the private solution may be the better. Two of these extremes that I can think of are incredibly small public schools, and oversized, overcrowded, public schools.
When a school is too small, it will not have the resources both financially, and personel wise to provide a student with enough choices.
When a school is too big, it makes for too many choices and often lacks the refinement that a smaller situation can provide. A larger student body makes it harder for a teacher to see students with learning problems and in turn, making it easier for students to pass that probably shouldn't. Another problem with large schools is sports. Many large schools make it next to impossible for a student who has the desire, but not the talent to participate in sports. In a smaller environment, this is not a problem.
In my opinion, private schools are an option, but not a solution. Many of the private schools around my area are catholic/religious based. I would never subject my child to that...but that's another thread
From my experience, the catholic high schools generally had higher drug/alchol abuse rates than the public schools. But then, this is just my experience with working with several private schooled students from various private schools throughout my high school years. And, as many have stated, it's the parents - especially the mothers, that provide the educational encouragement that a child needs to excel in schools. Multiple studies have shown that if a child's mother expresses interest in her child's education, the child will do better in school than if the father, or in worse case, no parent, shows support. This alone, can be the determining factor in how effective a school is.
I won't say that I would never send my children to a private school, but I will say that it be highly more likely that I would pay the tuition difference to have my child go to a better public school in my area first.
These are my opions, they DO NOT APPLY to every single case, but on the average/norm I would bet they are pretty close. IMO
I am also NOT saying if you can't afford to send your kid to a private school you are a bad parent.
Pennstate
I have tried to back up my opinion, if you think it is wrong, good for you. Why don't you try to explain to me why you are right?
I am not saying public schools suck, they don't. You can get a great education their, I prefer Private for the reasons I stated! I don't care if you think I a wrong. Maybe you are bias because your wife works at public school.
I went to school in a town of about 15,000. The town I live in now (15 miles away) is about 55,000.
I have tried to back up my opinion, if you think it is wrong, good for you. Why don't you try to explain to me why you are right?
I am not saying public schools suck, they don't. You can get a great education their, I prefer Private for the reasons I stated! I don't care if you think I a wrong. Maybe you are bias because your wife works at public school.
I went to school in a town of about 15,000. The town I live in now (15 miles away) is about 55,000.
I am implying that you're making a false generalization. I am right in that sense. Your flawed logic in making that generalization proves me right.
My logic is flawed because you don't agree with it?
You have to generalize, because nothing here is a constant, who's logic is flawed!
You have to generalize, because nothing here is a constant, who's logic is flawed!
My logic is flawed because you don't agree with it?
No, your logic was flawed because it was FLAWED!!! Man you really did go to a bad school.
No, your logic was flawed because it was FLAWED!!! Man you really did go to a bad school.
I attended public elementary and junior high schools. I went to private for high school.
I'm afraid if I went to the local public high school, I may not have been able to enter the college of my choice.
I'm afraid if I went to the local public high school, I may not have been able to enter the college of my choice.
Pennstate
What ever, you seem to have something so far up your ass it can't be removed. I keep saying, these are my opinions! So they are not going to be the same as everyone elses.
Give some reason why you are right!! I have given reasons why my opinions are right to me! And the more I read from you the more I am glad I don't agree with you.
And rip on my spelling/grammer all you like, so english/writing is not my thing.
What ever, you seem to have something so far up your ass it can't be removed. I keep saying, these are my opinions! So they are not going to be the same as everyone elses.
Give some reason why you are right!! I have given reasons why my opinions are right to me! And the more I read from you the more I am glad I don't agree with you.
And rip on my spelling/grammer all you like, so english/writing is not my thing.
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