POLL: Should Xenon headlights be illegal?

Even if they are aimed properly, when they are on a suv and youre in a car, they are blinding.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I like them. They really help you see the road at night. I have yet to see a factory HID light that was annoyingly bright/blinding while I'm driving towards them.

Cops should pull over idiots who intentionally run with misadjusted headlights though. Raised trucks should be banned from the roadways also.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I had no idea there were so many whiny little bitches on Anandtech.

HIDs > You

- M4H

You == teh n00b @ AT




I really shouldn't post in OT...WTF kinda words are "n00b" and "teh" anyway? :roll:

You spelled yu0 wrong.

I always knew AT was mostly comprised of whiny little bitches ... I just thought the Riceboy Quotient would have been high enough to allow for a much wider spread between pro and con HID.

- M4H

Well, to quote a very wise man, namely myself
"OT was so much more enjoyable before this forum turned into Tech4Kidz"

Support n0cmonkey's "1000 post incubation period" forum

- M4H

 

[Nebor]

I routinely get flashed in my Acura, which has some sort of blue lights.

 

[ducksoup0]

I suffer from the extreme glare produced by the HID lights too (my eyes suck). When a car with them comes from the opposite direction on a dark road, it really destroys my nightvision and cuts down my visibility. Proper aiming is not the only issue, because roads are not level, and cars are different heights.

Brighter head-lights are not necessarily a good thing; they don't always increase sight distance. I recall an experiment (CR or C&D, can't remember) where the Mazda Protege5 turned out to have the best sight distance, and I don't think it had HID. The Audi TT had the worst.

One thing they really need to do: get rid of the sharp cut-off! That is what makes people think that head-lights are being flashed. Other head-lights fade slowly as you move away from the primary axis. HID cut off brightness very sharply at a certain threshold. There is no good reason for this to be the case that I can see.

 

[TechnoKid]

Originally posted by: glugglug
Possibly important factor I noticed in the USA Today article someone linked above:

Road signs play role

You can blame U.S. road-sign regulations for some of the HID glare. U.S. signs aren't universally lighted and don't all reflect light the same. Thus, headlights have to throw some light upward and outward, to make sure you can read overhead and roadside signs, according to federal regulations.

In Europe, home of most of the world's 2 million HID-lighted vehicles, glare seldom is mentioned. European road signs routinely and consistently are lighted, so headlights needn't beam up and, in fact, are required not to. That keeps the light out of other drivers' eyes.

In other words, HIDs sold in the U.S. are aimed up by design causing glare, because they have to in order to read unlit road signs, while European HIDs are aimed down.

In europe, there is a flare in the beam pattern (as well as in the us, but the us flare is not as "pronounced" as e-code). In europe its called e-code, here in the states its DOT/harmonized. The harmonized beam pattern, which is what most of the HID in the states use. Text

 

[GreenGhost]

1. When halogen lamps started, people would have similar complaints.
2. Modern headlights are so well designed that you can actually look at incoming cars without big problems. In the past, people were used to look at the edge of the road to avoid being blinded. Younger drivers don't do that.
3. Factory HID's are okay. Where I live there are no ricers, just rednecks who pretend to "forget" the hi-beams on and try to get away with it. Nobody complains, around here, it seems.

 

[Ikonomi]

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
the blue lights are less obtrusive on your eyes anyway. (I wish they'd make all of them the light blue tint, they are far less blinding to oncoming trafic, and since blue is the last color to fade in the dark, the driver of the vehicle can see even farther) the pure white lights are definately a bit too much.

edit: I still say that the state inspections (at least in the states that have them) should make it mandetory to have head lights aligned properly every year. Worlds of difference both for the driver, and the oncoming traffic.

I definitely agree with having headlight alignment as part of the inspection.

But I don't like blue tinted lights, at all. Blue light tends to enhance contrast, but I don't find that important while driving. If anything, headlights could be green to offer the best night-time vision (our eyes are most sensitive somewhere in the yellow-green spectrum).

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I routinely get flashed in my Acura, which has some sort of blue lights.

IIRC, don't you have a TSX? If so, HIDs.

And I think getting blinked is just a result of stupid people more so than the lights. I've gotten beamed in my Civic, and it's just got the factory lights and projector-styles.

Makes me wish I had something with a little more candlepower to return fire though.

- M4H

 

[DivideBYZero]

Proper aiming and regular sight tests will solve this issue...

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: GreenGhost
1. When halogen lamps started, people would have similar complaints.

HIDs have set a record for the # of complaints on any one issue, already by more than triple.

2. Modern headlights are so well designed that you can actually look at incoming cars without big problems. In the past, people were used to look at the edge of the road to avoid being blinded. Younger drivers don't do that.

This is BS plain and simple. Well, at least the 1st sentence of it is.

3. Factory HID's are okay. Where I live there are no ricers, just rednecks who pretend to "forget" the hi-beams on and try to get away with it. Nobody complains, around here, it seems.

Really not many ricers here. With one obvious exception where I think the ricer actually managed to install their HIDs UPSIDE DOWN! and drives them with brights during the day, all the worst HIDs I've seen have been on luxury cars. I do seem to notice them most on streets with construction so the cars are hitting more bumps.

The real scary thing recently is that I noticed in the past month a few of the taxis and busses have been outfitted with them. THAT will be interesting to see if the accident rate in NYC for 2005 triples from 2004 from the taxis with HIDs. On the plus side, at least 2 of them I've seen so far have apparently noticed how awful they are and were driving around at night with just DRLs. (Or I can wishfully think that's why they were driving with just DRLs)

Oh, and about all the vision test crap: I have 20/5 corrected, and excellent night vision -- better than most people's during the day as long as I'm not being hit by stupid lights.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: glugglug

Originally posted by: GreenGhost
1. When halogen lamps started, people would have similar complaints.

HIDs have set a record for the # of complaints on any one issue, already by more than triple.

2. Modern headlights are so well designed that you can actually look at incoming cars without big problems. In the past, people were used to look at the edge of the road to avoid being blinded. Younger drivers don't do that.

This is BS plain and simple. Well, at least the 1st sentence of it is.

3. Factory HID's are okay. Where I live there are no ricers, just rednecks who pretend to "forget" the hi-beams on and try to get away with it. Nobody complains, around here, it seems.

Really not many ricers here. With one obvious exception where I think the ricer actually managed to install their HIDs UPSIDE DOWN! and drives them with brights during the day, all the worst HIDs I've seen have been on luxury cars. I do seem to notice them most on streets with construction so the cars are hitting more bumps.

The real scary thing recently is that I noticed in the past month a few of the taxis and busses have been outfitted with them. THAT will be interesting to see if the accident rate in NYC for 2005 triples from 2004 from the taxis with HIDs. On the plus side, at least 2 of them I've seen so far have apparently noticed how awful they are and were driving around at night with just DRLs. (Or I can wishfully think that's why they were driving with just DRLs)

Oh, and about all the vision test crap: I have 20/5 corrected, and excellent night vision -- better than most people's during the day as long as I'm not being hit by stupid lights.

I don't actually know what my vision is in terms of the 20/20 or whatever stuff, but it was good enough for any military branch, so I assume it's ok by any meassure, I also have excellent night vision, and I have no problems what so ever with xenon lights.

In fact my father owns a Saab 9-5 with xenon light, I've both driven it, and met other cars like it, and while driving it, I've noticed how much better the lights are, and whilw meeting other cars with xenon lights, all I've noticed is how much easier they are on the eyes compared to halogen lights.

Me and my freinds have actually had this discussion once or twice while discussing cars, and we've all been in agreement that xenon lights are all around better, aside from the cost.

Maybe you're the one that should be banned from the roads if you're so sensitive?

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: Ikonomi

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
the blue lights are less obtrusive on your eyes anyway. (I wish they'd make all of them the light blue tint, they are far less blinding to oncoming trafic, and since blue is the last color to fade in the dark, the driver of the vehicle can see even farther) the pure white lights are definately a bit too much.

edit: I still say that the state inspections (at least in the states that have them) should make it mandetory to have head lights aligned properly every year. Worlds of difference both for the driver, and the oncoming traffic.

I definitely agree with having headlight alignment as part of the inspection.

But I don't like blue tinted lights, at all. Blue light tends to enhance contrast, but I don't find that important while driving. If anything, headlights could be green to offer the best night-time vision (our eyes are most sensitive somewhere in the yellow-green spectrum).

Actually, blue tends to enhance color perception, green is where we are most sensitive in terms of brightness. Yellow is best for contrast/shape perception. And what do you really need good color while driving for other than red light vs. green light? Blue/purple has the lowest threshold of pain/eye fatigue/glare -- it is most similar to UV. Both the low wavelength end of blue and the high wavelength end of UV are absorbed by the lens of the eye and later reemitted by the lens as yellow/green glare -- your eye itself flouresces under a deep blue or UV light.

 

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: glugglug

Originally posted by: GreenGhost
1. When halogen lamps started, people would have similar complaints.

HIDs have set a record for the # of complaints on any one issue, already by more than triple.

2. Modern headlights are so well designed that you can actually look at incoming cars without big problems. In the past, people were used to look at the edge of the road to avoid being blinded. Younger drivers don't do that.

This is BS plain and simple. Well, at least the 1st sentence of it is.

3. Factory HID's are okay. Where I live there are no ricers, just rednecks who pretend to "forget" the hi-beams on and try to get away with it. Nobody complains, around here, it seems.

Really not many ricers here. With one obvious exception where I think the ricer actually managed to install their HIDs UPSIDE DOWN! and drives them with brights during the day, all the worst HIDs I've seen have been on luxury cars. I do seem to notice them most on streets with construction so the cars are hitting more bumps.

The real scary thing recently is that I noticed in the past month a few of the taxis and busses have been outfitted with them. THAT will be interesting to see if the accident rate in NYC for 2005 triples from 2004 from the taxis with HIDs. On the plus side, at least 2 of them I've seen so far have apparently noticed how awful they are and were driving around at night with just DRLs. (Or I can wishfully think that's why they were driving with just DRLs)

Oh, and about all the vision test crap: I have 20/5 corrected, and excellent night vision -- better than most people's during the day as long as I'm not being hit by stupid lights.

I don't actually know what my vision is in terms of the 20/20 or whatever stuff, but it was good enough for any military branch, so I assume it's ok by any meassure, I also have excellent night vision, and I have no problems what so ever with xenon lights.

In fact my father owns a Saab 9-5 with xenon light, I've both driven it, and met other cars like it, and while driving it, I've noticed how much better the lights are, and whilw meeting other cars with xenon lights, all I've noticed is how much easier they are on the eyes compared to halogen lights.

Me and my freinds have actually had this discussion once or twice while discussing cars, and we've all been in agreement that xenon lights are all around better, aside from the cost.

Maybe you're the one that should be banned from the roads if you're so sensitive?

Maybe he's 3ft tall?

 

[PKPunk]

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
the blue lights are less obtrusive on your eyes anyway. (I wish they'd make all of them the light blue tint, they are far less blinding to oncoming trafic, and since blue is the last color to fade in the dark, the driver of the vehicle can see even farther) the pure white lights are definately a bit too much.

edit: I still say that the state inspections (at least in the states that have them) should make it mandetory to have head lights aligned properly every year. Worlds of difference both for the driver, and the oncoming traffic.

I totally agree, I think aiming headlights should be mandatory every 2 years. I think they should include it in the smog test or something. I've seen many trucks/SUVs with very poorly aimed headlights and they blind the hell out of me.

Other than that, I love hids, I have no problem with projector Hid lights, Refactors can be kind of annoying but they are one their way out. I think lexus is the only one still using refactors(is300,es330). What really bugs me is SUV's with regular bulbs, when they come behind me their lights shine in to my car's cabin and relect back to my eyes through my side mirror and rear view mirror. I don't really mind Hid's on SUVs though like on the BMW x5 or Mercedes ML's the focused light from the projectors blind me less.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Nebor
I routinely get flashed in my Acura, which has some sort of blue lights.

IIRC, don't you have a TSX? If so, HIDs.

And I think getting blinked is just a result of stupid people more so than the lights. I've gotten beamed in my Civic, and it's just got the factory lights and projector-styles.

Makes me wish I had something with a little more candlepower to return fire though.

- M4H

Nah, I have a 3.2 TL Stype. I can really light 'em up with the brights though. Those are ridiculously bright. They light up the trees overhead and stuff, it's crazy.

 

[Ikonomi]

Originally posted by: glugglug
Possibly important factor I noticed in the USA Today article someone linked above:

Road signs play role

You can blame U.S. road-sign regulations for some of the HID glare. U.S. signs aren't universally lighted and don't all reflect light the same. Thus, headlights have to throw some light upward and outward, to make sure you can read overhead and roadside signs, according to federal regulations.

In Europe, home of most of the world's 2 million HID-lighted vehicles, glare seldom is mentioned. European road signs routinely and consistently are lighted, so headlights needn't beam up and, in fact, are required not to. That keeps the light out of other drivers' eyes.

In other words, HIDs sold in the U.S. are aimed up by design causing glare, because they have to in order to read unlit road signs, while European HIDs are aimed down.

Well, my headlights are definitely not aimed upwards: here's a beam shot. You can see how low the lights fall on the other cars. That's also on a slight grade, because my driveway is slanted, so the cutoff is actually higher than it would be on level ground.

You can see that there isn't much spill vertically. It's enough to illuminate road signs, but only because they're highly reflective.

 

[OMGoddess]

Originally posted by: theNEOone
um, they are illegal.

xenon (or HIDs, as many refer to them) that are properly installed (self levelling or manufacturer installed) work beautifully w/o blinding oncoming traffic and are sanctioned by the DOT. the problem (and here is where the illegal HIDs come in) is w/ people who put on aftermarket HID kits and set them so that they point too high.


=|

Pretty much sums it right there.

 

[finlay42]

maybe I've just never run into someone who had them aimed correctly, but I can't stand them.

I'm not especially light-sensitive, but I can't drive past a car with xenons without flinching or averting my gaze to the side of the road. it's the same brightness as if they had their highbeams on.

It's especially annoying because my area is so bright at night that there's really no justification for them. I can see it if you're driving on dark roads in the middle of nowhere, but most of NYC is so bright at night that you could do without headlights entirely and not notice (and I did, once... I didn't notice that my headlights weren't on until I had driven 5 miles outside of the city).

 

[OMGoddess]

When you see a distant like, wait until they reach the point where it' becomes a sudden "flash" then look at the white line on the side of your road (or the shoulder if the line's not there) that's what they're there for as a guide.