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POLL: Seize children from mothers who smoke/drink while pregnant?
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How many of you voting to seperate mother and child have ever looked after a kid for more than an afternoon?
And where are we going to take these infants, nto the foster care system? ... if that is your answer then you should be sterilized for thinking that as a better alternative to the natural mother.
Maybe a lobotomy would be better, because it is clear that something has influenced your thought patterns, and you might at some point in the future be a danger to yourselve or others. Yes, I think that is a sound resolution to this poll...
My initial response when I read the results... OMG!!!!
And where are we going to take these infants, nto the foster care system? ... if that is your answer then you should be sterilized for thinking that as a better alternative to the natural mother.
Maybe a lobotomy would be better, because it is clear that something has influenced your thought patterns, and you might at some point in the future be a danger to yourselve or others. Yes, I think that is a sound resolution to this poll...
My initial response when I read the results... OMG!!!!
StageLeft
No Lifer
I'm partly playing devil's advocate, but will continue to do so until somebody can provide a valid reason why they agree with taking a child from a negligent parent in an abusive atmosphere or one where they are chronically malnurished, and yet have no problem with letting a clearly uncaring mother continue to be the caregiver to children that she's already harmed, often to a great extent.
PlatinumGold
Lifer
just bad thinking.
abortion is about a womans rights to her body, IF however that mother is NOT going to abort than the result of the pregnancy can have significant costs to society. why should society be burdened with a sickly child?
DurocShark
Lifer
LoL!!! :beer:
I think anybody who has stupid ideas (oh, I dunno... Maybe like taking kids away from their mothers because it's trendy now to hate smokers) is a danger to others and should be held in cryogenic suspension until such time as "death of personality" is a viable solution to stupidity.
StageLeft
No Lifer
That's fine, if you can demonstrate how they are a harm to others. A child can't protect itself, so if its mother won't, then it's society's job to step up to the plate and be its parent.
Again, for perhaps the 4th time I'll reference the fact that nobody here against this idea has yet tried to fit it into their almost certain support of taking children away from negligent parents in other cases.
MomAndSkoorbaby
Diamond Member
PARTLY? You are the Devil's Advocate!
So far though Skoorb, it looks like a good debate! 😛
Nope. My mother smoke AND drank while I was pregnant, very lightly, and is one of the most caring mothers in the world, she does everything for my brother and I. Luckily, neither of us have any health problems at all, not even allergic reactions to anything. Of course I don't know if it's common to be perfectly healthy, but I would imagine that children only have birth defects from extreme alcohol/tobacco abuse.
My mother told me she would still socially drink (have 1 or 2) alcoholic beverages maybe once every couple of days throughout the entire pregnancy and she would normally smoke 1 or 2 cigarettes while she drank.
I know it's best to not do that at all, but once again, it would have rediculous if my mother was visibly pregnant, in a restaurant, having a glass of wine and a cigarette, to have the police come up and put her in jail... especially if they knew how great of a mother she has been to my brother and I for the past 23 and 21 years of our lives.
My mother told me she would still socially drink (have 1 or 2) alcoholic beverages maybe once every couple of days throughout the entire pregnancy and she would normally smoke 1 or 2 cigarettes while she drank.
I know it's best to not do that at all, but once again, it would have rediculous if my mother was visibly pregnant, in a restaurant, having a glass of wine and a cigarette, to have the police come up and put her in jail... especially if they knew how great of a mother she has been to my brother and I for the past 23 and 21 years of our lives.
DurocShark
Lifer
Ok. Do you have any documentation on exactly what percentage of kids of mothers that smoke while pregnant are demonstrably harmed? I'd bet serious money that it's under 10%, and probably even signifigantly less.
However, beating a kid with a shoe has obvious harm to 100%.
The fact that the number of children that are truly and obviously harmed by pregnant moms smoking is so low is what helped keep tobacco legal for so long.
I personally think if tobacco was illegal, I would have a better chance of quitting. But expecting a pregnant mother to quit when they're pregnant isn't proof that she'd be a bad mother. Especially with a first child, many women don't have the psychological attachment to the child or even the realization that the child is real until late pregnancy or even after birth. And with a highly addictive vice like smoking, "she doesn't care enough to quit" isn't a valid argument.
It's currently trendy to hate smoking. You realize you're jumping on the trend bandwagon by hating smokers, right?
The government is notoriously inept at child rearing. Can we send all the 'siezed' children to you?
As far as drinking and smoking during pregnancy are concerned, I can see a means of due process for the prevention of Fetal Alcholo Syndrome. There is really no means of determining how the quality of life for a child whos' mother smoked tobacco. In a majority of cases, there are no effects. In the case of illegal narcotics & stimulants, the risk is much greater and again due process is in order. Check with any Child Protective Agency in the country. They typically work hard at keeping the family in tact, if that means rehabilitation for the mother, they will work in that area. The reason? They know what happens to the children raised in by government mandated care.... abysmal!!!!!
StageLeft
No Lifer
So it's all about percentages? 10% if it hurts the kid we should leave them...what about 30? What about 90%? All this seems to indicate is that you have more forgiving standards as to what sort of negligence is acceptable or not.
Considering that the average smokers is proven to have years taken off their life and that smoking is still legal, I don't know what legality has to do with the health risks of it.
If I happen to like a barely known genre of music and then it gets out in to the open and everybody else does and it's trendy, so that now make me trendy? I've not liked smoking for years. It's only trendy in the same vein that not liking parental abuse is trendy. I find smoking, obesity, etc. all in the same group of societal embarassments, trendy or no.
No, what do I know about parenting? :evil:
nakedfrog
No Lifer
I think the real key here is that it's only extreme tobacco/alcohol use that actual manifests itself as problem. I know for a fact of at least one doctor that recommended a mother keep smoking. This is because the baby was already 2 pounds over average weight, and he wanted to avoid a caesarean section or other difficult, dangerous childbirth.
Totally agree. If you can't give up your vices for 10 months you aren't going to be a good parent anyway. I get so f'ing sick of hearing parents complaining how expensive it is to raise their kid(s) yet they never go a day without their Marboro's. I have to bite my tongue to avoid an argument.
StageLeft
No Lifer
Doesn't work. The human population is notoriously slow at following good advice. We see obesity rates, teen pregnancy rates, smoking while pregnant rates, etc. continue to hold nice high numbers, because people are typically quite resistent to doing what's best for them, if it means putting in effort.
gistech1978
Diamond Member
of course not.
alcohol & nicotine are both extremely harmful to a fetus.
but, i think the woman who made the idiotic choice of drinking while preggers and now has a baby with FAS and must be cared for 24/7 ( just like a healthy baby) should be HER responsibility, not the State's. Its her mistake, make her live with it.
Smoking while harmful is no where near as harmful as alcohol, same situation, though. If she smokes during pregnancy and the baby is unhealthy and requires care. Make her foot the bill, make her take care of the kid, not the State.
alcohol & nicotine are both extremely harmful to a fetus.
but, i think the woman who made the idiotic choice of drinking while preggers and now has a baby with FAS and must be cared for 24/7 ( just like a healthy baby) should be HER responsibility, not the State's. Its her mistake, make her live with it.
Smoking while harmful is no where near as harmful as alcohol, same situation, though. If she smokes during pregnancy and the baby is unhealthy and requires care. Make her foot the bill, make her take care of the kid, not the State.
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