Poll: Pandemic, Personal Liberty/Freedom vs Public Safety

[HomerJS]

One of the things this pandemic does is expose weaknesses in our democratic system of governance. I hear constantly when it comes to mask mandates and vaccine requirements people don't their personal liberty infringed. Question, does ones personal freedoms end when it comes to transmitting a highly contagious deadly disease? Does your right not to wear a mask supersede the rights of a person close to you catching the virus and die? Wearing a mask primarily protects others from the virus spreading.

That is the position we find ourselves in. This poll question applies to COVID.

 

[brycejones]

One of the things this pandemic does is expose weaknesses in our democratic system of governance. I hear constantly when it comes to mask mandates and vaccine requirements people don't their personal liberty infringed. Question, does ones personal freedoms end when it comes to transmitting a highly contagious deadly disease? Does your right not to wear a mask supersede the rights of a person close to you catching the virus and die? Wearing a mask primarily protects others from the virus spreading.

That is the position we find ourselves in. This poll question applies to COVID.

We actually have a long history of strong public health orders in this country. The problem is people have forgotten what it's like to have an epidemic go through their city every couple of years.

 

[eelw]

Yes right to choose. But businesses have the right to choose who can enter their store. And again, the stupid is not a protected class

 

[SmCaudata]

Personal freedoms end when those choices cause potential harm to others.

Examples of public health policies that are in place due to harm to others.
1. Drinking and driving
2. Vaccines
3. Smoking bans

Examples of personal freedoms that should not be legislated because they don't affect others.
1. Bans on transgender folks
2. Attacks on same sex rights.
3. Personal drug and alcohol use. (This one is tricky due to drug trade, should be legal, regulated, and taxes.)
4. Women's right to choose (before viability)


If you notice, the GQP folks have this completely backwards.

 

[Ken g6]

3. Personal drug and alcohol use. (This one is tricky due to drug trade, should be legal, regulated, and taxes.)

This one is tricky for more reasons than that. Note that two of your three "Examples of public health policies that are in place due to harm to others" involve drug or alcohol use. Some drugs are so poisonous that they are too easy to misuse with someone winding up dead. Some drugs are so sleep-inducing that they are too easily used for abduction. Certain drugs, such as synthetic amphetamines colloquially known as "bath salts", make a person so psychotic that they are likely to be a danger to others.

All that said, I would like to see more drugs available without a prescription. And I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Greenman]

Yes right to choose. But businesses have the right to choose who can enter their store. And again, the stupid is not a protected class

But it is the class that most regulation and law is aimed at. It's the class that business has to protect itself from.

 

[Greenman]

One of the things this pandemic does is expose weaknesses in our democratic system of governance. I hear constantly when it comes to mask mandates and vaccine requirements people don't their personal liberty infringed. Question, does ones personal freedoms end when it comes to transmitting a highly contagious deadly disease? Does your right not to wear a mask supersede the rights of a person close to you catching the virus and die? Wearing a mask primarily protects others from the virus spreading.

That is the position we find ourselves in. This poll question applies to COVID.

Doesn't the answer vary based on population density? If you live in Toe Jam Arkansas the answer will be different than if you live in NYC. Even the vaccine question has qualifiers. I thought the vaccine was a game changer, pandemic over, life back to normal. That hasn't worked out the way I had hoped.

 

[VW MAN]

Doesn't the answer vary based on population density? If you live in Toe Jam Arkansas the answer will be different than if you live in NYC. Even the vaccine question has qualifiers. I thought the vaccine was a game changer, pandemic over, life back to normal. That hasn't worked out the way I had hoped.

If you really wanted the game changing scenario then fucking start by correcting the course of your favored nutter party!

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Doesn't the answer vary based on population density? If you live in Toe Jam Arkansas the answer will be different than if you live in NYC. Even the vaccine question has qualifiers. I thought the vaccine was a game changer, pandemic over, life back to normal. That hasn't worked out the way I had hoped.

Ironically, if we had a global deployment of the vaccine in the numbers we should have, the Delta variant would likely not have emerged, and the pandemic would be over. It's precisely due to a lack of adequate vaccinations that we're dealing with Delta.

 

[HomerJS]

Doesn't the answer vary based on population density? If you live in Toe Jam Arkansas the answer will be different than if you live in NYC. Even the vaccine question has qualifiers. I thought the vaccine was a game changer, pandemic over, life back to normal. That hasn't worked out the way I had hoped.

I don't have a problem not mandating masks in sparsely populated areas but in the case of Texas and Florida those densely populat4d areas are trying to mandate them but those boneheads Abbot and DeSantis are getting in the way.

The vaccines will work if enough people fucking take them. Do you not understand how viruses mutate? Do you not know how we got delta? Do you not understand further mutation could make the original vaccine moot?

 

[Ajay]

Ironically, if we had a global deployment of the vaccine in the numbers we should have, the Delta variant would likely not have emerged, and the pandemic would be over. It's precisely due to a lack of adequate vaccinations that we're dealing with Delta.

Unfortunately, it takes quite a bit time to ramp up production and distribution to fully vaccinate 7 Billion people, + or -.

 

[purbeast0]

Wearing a mask is so fucking trivial and anyone who won't do it is a fucking snowflake.

I have been wearing a mask to the gym and doing very intense workouts since like September of last year. I also have asthma.

My son wore a mask 4 days a week to school starting last March, for 7 hours a day. He's 6.

So if you can't wear a god damn mask in a store for 5-10 minutes, you are a fucking selfish snowflake.

I'm glad my county has mandated masks again as of this past Saturday, even though we have some of the lowest numbers in the country.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Unfortunately, it takes quite a bit time to ramp up production and distribution to fully vaccinate 7 Billion people, + or -.

It sure does. We did really well with this one, faster than previous ones. Gotta be faster next time. Distribution needs to be massively improved as well. Maybe we can crowdsource it, have everyone who gets vaccinated also gets another stabby shot, they can go chase down people who won't vaccinate and administer more 'directly'.

 

[HomerJS]

So far we have one person who thinks he has the right to kill someone else so he doesn't have to wear a mask.

 

[pauldun170]

"Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins."

 

[KMFJD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1425092878020268035

https://twitter.com/x/status/1425094109480591373

He'll be the gqp's next candidate for President

 

[SmCaudata]

This one is tricky for more reasons than that. Note that two of your three "Examples of public health policies that are in place due to harm to others" involve drug or alcohol use. Some drugs are so poisonous that they are too easy to misuse with someone winding up dead. Some drugs are so sleep-inducing that they are too easily used for abduction. Certain drugs, such as synthetic amphetamines colloquially known as "bath salts", make a person so psychotic that they are likely to be a danger to others.

All that said, I would like to see more drugs available without a prescription. And I agree with the rest of your post.

Agreed. As someone in MH field I know too well these issues. At our hospital nurses had to have a partner when going through patient belongings because even touching carfentanil could mean death. As you say, there are a lot more nuances.

I also struggle with allowing people do things that society picks up the tab for the consequences. That too is tough to ethic through when accounting for education, training, addictions, etc...

 

[kt]

Doesn't the answer vary based on population density? If you live in Toe Jam Arkansas the answer will be different than if you live in NYC. Even the vaccine question has qualifiers. I thought the vaccine was a game changer, pandemic over, life back to normal. That hasn't worked out the way I had hoped.

The vaccine is a game changer. Without it, our kids wouldn't have been able to see their grandparents in person. It's the unvaccinated and anti-mask population of half-wits who are dragging this pandemic on for much longer than it needs to be.

 

[Stokely]

I'd have to somehow come around to the idea that wearing a mask is somehow impinging on my freedom. It's bullshit.

So is not being able to drive drunk. Or taking a dump on a restaurant table. Or firing off my gun randomly on a street when I feel like celebrating.

Not to mention we are in the middle of a pandemic. I wonder if people in London protested having to go to bomb shelters during WWII. "But muh freedom, guvnor!" The big difference being, that if some numbnuts wanted to get blown up, it doesn't hurt anyone else other than someone who might depend on him.

Anyone saying things like "They just want to control us!" is a moronic child and not worth talking to on a subject.

We don't live in some frontier town in 1830. We are a society of several hundred million people. Some compromise is needed to function. And I'm sure even then they had actual rules to keep aholes from ruining the joint just because they felt like it.

Vaccines, at least, is a discussion. That's something potentially harmful that you are injecting. But then that's why they have testing in place and FDA approval. Which , by the way, may change from "emergency" to fully approved quite soon...and boy won't there be wailing and gnashing of teeth then when employers finally get the balls to start requiring vaccination.

 

[rommelrommel]

It's obviously a balance, some restrictions could be too much of an infringement to be justifiable. Protecting public health is a core duty of government tho. People saying "you have no power over me here" are just stupid children.

 

[HomerJS]

For 2 voters @Sick Willie and @Annisman* , care to enlighten us why your liberty supersedes our rights not to contract a deadly virus from you and die?

P.S. and I would add creating mutations that could ultimately render the current vaccine ineffective.

 

[ultimatebob]

For 2 voters @Sick Willie and @Annisman* , care to enlighten us why your liberty supersedes our rights not to contract a deadly virus from you and die?

I got vaccinated, so it (hopefully) wouldn't be a deadly virus if I caught it (again?).

 

[dank69]

"Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins."

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The science behind mask effectiveness was settled in May 2020. Anyone who thinks they aren't effective more than a year later needs to be culled from society.

 

[Ajay]

The science behind mask effectiveness was settled in May 2020. Anyone who thinks they aren't effective more than a year later needs to be culled from society.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb was on NBC Nightly News, last weekend I think, he said cloth masks are around 20% effective; procedure masks (typically blue) are around 40% effective; and, obviously, certified N95 masks are 95% effective when properly fitted. Can't find a link to that interview.

 

[dank69]

Dr. Scott Gottlieb was on NBC Nightly News, last weekend I think, he said cloth masks are around 20% effective; procedure masks (typically blue) are around 40% effective; and, obviously, certified N95 masks are 95% effective when properly fitted. Can't find a link to that interview.

Effective at what? Sounds like he was talking about how effective they are at filtering out particles from others, which is not why we need mandates. Cloth masks are something like 75% effective at preventing infected people from spreading their germs. The fact that people still don't understand the difference is fucking maddening.