POLL: Opteron SMP, Xeon SMP, or P4 HT kicks most a$$?

[Mloot]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Mloot
If you are wanting to go with Opterons because of future NUMA-awareness stuff, you will have to spend a bit more on your motherboard. The two main budget dual-Opteron boards w/AGP, the MSI K8T Master2 - FAR and the Tyan Tiger K8W, both of which run just a little over $200, will not do. IIRC, to take advantage of NUMA-aware programs, each CPU socket must have its own dedicated set of memory banks, so that both CPU's are not having to share one memory bank. And for something like that, you have to move up your budget for something like the Tyan Thunder K8W which, while being much more feature-rich than the two budget Opteron boards, also costs about 2x as much and will require a large case because the board itself is an Extended-ATX board.

...so in the end, unless you're getting at least 2GHz Opterons, Xeons are better for a windows desktop (at least until '06, probably)

The 242 Opterons (1.6ghz) would be killer if he planned on using a 64-bit Linux distro, and will still make a very fast Windows system now. But you definitely get more bang-for-the-buck with Xeons at this moment.

 

[batmanuel]

In a dual processor setup, it is a close race between the Opterons and the new Xeons. Of course for serious enterprise level setups where you are running 4 and 8 way SMP configurations, the Opterons have the Xeons for lunch. This is because the on chip memory controller gives each Opteron on the board its own dedicated memory channels while multiple Xeons have to share the board's memory controller with each other. The extra L3 chache on the Xeons helps them stay competitive in dualie configs, but beyond that the Xeon's FSB gets severely bottlenecked trying to feed four processors.

The Opteron was designed from the ground up to be a server chip and it shows in its architecture, while the Xeon is merely a glorified desktop processor that really can't compete with the Opteron at the enterprise level. That's why Intel's next gen server chip shares so many of the same features as the Opteron (64-bit extensions and most importantly on-die memory controllers). By emulating these key points of the Opteron design, Intel is basically admitting that AMD has the better server technology right now and that they won't be able to stay on top unless they start implementing AMD's tech into their own chips. With this in mind, there really should be no debate over which of the two is the better server processor.

 

[Bassyhead]

Originally posted by: JBT
dual Operton's... easy

 

[nemaNIN]

hah! and i was looking for a definitive answer.... instead....... now it's gonna be my fault it i choose wrong😛

im bending toward xeon's now... b/c it sounds like a really kick a$$ (remember the title of this thread) opteron machine puts me at $1700 just for the mobo and procs..... and that i can't afford.

whats the best xeon mobo out there? and do the xeons do HT?

and who wants to convince me to go back the the opterons 😛
or a single P4?

oh the possibilities!

 

[Mloot]

As far as the best Xeon motherboard goes, for boards that run about $200, the Asus PC-DL is currently the best, and provides the best overclocking options. However, like someone pointed out earlier, the PC-DL only has standard PCI slots. If you need higher-end PCI slots, you will have to look elsewhere.

There is speculation that Asus will release a BIOS that will allow the PC-DL to support the upcoming Nocona processors as well, but AFAIK it hasn't been confirmed yet.

But, if you want the absolute in Xeon yumminess in a neat, tidy package, you might want to take a look at the Iwill DH800. It has AGP, standard PCI, and 2 PCI-X slots, all in a nice, ATX format. It's just becoming available in the U.S., and it will support the 800mhz FSB Nocona's when they become available, so there will be a solid upgrade path for your processors. And, last I heard, the DH800 will support overclocking as well, with an AGP/PCI lock, just like their current Xeon board, the DPI533. You just can't really ask for more than that, can you?

EDIT: Btw, all current Xeon processors have HT.

 

[RussianSensation]

If you are gonna spend $1500 on a system....

FX53, FX51 or P4 3.4 coupled with an Nventiv Mach II or Vapochill cooling would probably be faster than your dually setup, more fun to play around with, more future proof because you'll be able to overclock for the next 5-10 years and have the fastest performance in comparison to the market every year by simply upgrading the processor and overclocking it again and again.

a 4.2ghz p4 HT or a 2.8ghz A64.....hmmm.....dreamy

 

[nemaNIN]

sounds nice... but i really like to run all the programs i want and never have to worry about bottlenecking. i know HT does some to coutneract this...... but im afraid i'll see a 'user experience' peformance hit even if i benchmark higher on a mono-system...........

i know i'd save a buncha $$... but i need more convincing to drop the second proc... (and the opterons are kicking a$$ in the poll)

 

[gsellis]

I just built the system Mloot is recommending. I am still working on the config and transfer from my old system. Since I may be doing HDV editing in the next year or so and try not to buy a new computer but ever 3 years, I went this route.

I spent about $2600 total including:

ASUS PC-DL (btw, the board has a voice error message if you misconfigure it)

2 x 3.06 512K Xeons (I was looking at 2.66 vs 2.8 - but skimped on the graphics in short run to fund it)

2 x 512MB Mushkin Hi Pref II (Black) PC2700 2-2-2 memory

2 x 37GB Raptors (R0 on ICH5R)

2 x 200GB WD JB SATA (R0 on Promise)

Creative Audigy 2 (Gamer - I wanted Halo and JK:JA and it was a deal)

Sapphire 9600XT (refurb was a newegg bargain!)

Logitech 5300 series speakers - was going to get 2.0, but no good surround headphones, so got 5.1 because of AC3 edits.

Chieftec Dragon case - I like this blue case!

I debated long and hard about Opteron, but in the end, the benchies for NLEs lead towards Xeon with the apps I was using. The top-end Opteron stuff was pricer than what I could do starting with the PC-DL board too. Next mod will be to see what ATI and Pinnacle do with vid and editing. They demoed something special at IDF and will be showing it again at NAB.

 

[Dug]

But, if you want the absolute in Xeon yumminess in a neat, tidy package, you might want to take a look at the Iwill DH800. It has AGP, standard PCI, and 2 PCI-X slots, all in a nice, ATX format. It's just becoming available in the U.S., and it will support the 800mhz FSB Nocona's when they become available, so there will be a solid upgrade path for your processors. And, last I heard, the DH800 will support overclocking as well, with an AGP/PCI lock, just like their current Xeon board, the DPI533. You just can't really ask for more than that, can you?

That's the route I would take if I truely believed that I needed dual procs.
But after experiencing HT in the P4 I can't bog my system down.

 

[XBoxLPU]

Is it just me but isn't the CPU Socket just a little close to the AGP Slot on the MSI K8T Master2 - FAR .. :Q

 

[Pariah]

The benefit of the higher clocked single CPU is not the cost savings. The benefit is that you can spend the cost savings on other parts of the system. A 3.4GHz P4 w/ 800MHz bus, NVidia based 6800U video card, more PC3200 RAM, and SCSI disk subsystem, will stomp a dual 2.8GHz Xeon with 533MHz bus, less and slower PC2700 registered memory, slower video, and slower hard drives in the vast majority of what you will come across and may still end up being cheaper.

The poll is slanted because you could have entered dual 500MHz Opteron w/ onboard video and 128MB RAM vs liquid cooled 4GHz P4 with 2GB RAM and 6800U, and the Opteron still probably would have won due to selective reading that only allows some people to see "dual" and "Opteron" vs single "intel."

That Iwill board looks really nice, but $380 for home system motherboard borders on obscene.

 

[sharkeeper]

The benefit of the higher clocked single CPU is not the cost savings. The benefit is that you can spend the cost savings on other parts of the system. A 3.4GHz P4 w/ 800MHz bus, NVidia based 6800U video card, more PC3200 RAM, and SCSI disk subsystem, will stomp a dual 2.8GHz Xeon with 533MHz bus, less and slower PC2700 registered memory, slower video, and slower hard drives in the vast majority of what you will come across and may still end up being cheaper.

IME this is not really the case.

My wife has a P4 running at 4GHz with 1GB PC4200, GF5950 at 566/1.05GHz and four 74GB raptors running on a LSi Host in RAID10. (It's a system I made for someone that didn't pay and I didn't want to take my losses on ebay since most people -myself included- hate refrigerators and out of convenience -for her- I fried her existing system!)

My "lowly" Xeon with Dual 2.8's and SCSI RAID stomps it so hard she is thoroughly jealous. She said not to spend another dime on her system and give her mine when I upgrade. 🙂

Unless you have money to burn or really *need* a SMP system, I would wait.

Cheers!

 

[nemaNIN]

shuttleteam. i agree... i really want to stay w/ SMP... and i can afford it, one way or another... opteron 1.6 or 1.8 ghz or xeon 2.6 or 2.8ghz....... i can afford either of those...


so... why should i wait? is something new coming out?

 

[Markfw]

Go for the dual 1.8 opterons (244, right ??) They will kick a$$ over the 2.8 Xenon's. And for socket 940, nothing new is coming out. Just make sure you get at couple of 64 bit PCI slots. If the budget is tight, you could go SCSI later, but a nice 64 bit SCSI raid controller, and a few drives will make a believer very quick.

 

[RussianSensation]

Ok after everyone being utterly stunned by this topic as no one clearly searched for the benchmarks of these setups I am gonna end this once and for all.

UNLESS you use your dual opteron or dual xeon setup for specific applications like rendering, P4 3.2HT+ will be faster than a dual xeon 2.66 or dual 1.4 opteron setup in gaming, decoding, encoding, mathematical calculations.

A dual setup will greatly benefit from workstation and rendering applications and even at that not always faster than a single fast cpu.

I understand you are thinking of getting a dual 2.8 and dual 1.6 opteron setup but still then for the same money you can overclock a 3.4ghz p4 to 4.0 and it will ABSOLUTELY crush any of those setups. It's always been a myth that a dual setup gives a huge increase in performance because it does not! Only for specific uses.

I don't even want to mention getting an FX53 or 3.4ghz P4EE setup and overclocking those because they will leave the dual setup in the dust and still cost less! And there is no way in the world a 4ghz p4 with raptors and some solid ram loses to a dual setup with slower speed ram and normal non-10,000rpm hard drives. And if you want to get SCSI hard drives they better be the top 2 ranked on storage review cuz those are the only 2 faster than the 74gig raptors for normal applications besides server usage (will your rig act as a server?) Of course a SCSI card and SCSI drives cost a lot more to start with. If you start adding up all these costs, you'll quickly find yourself far exceeding $2000US. I don't want to mention again but an FX51/53 with an Nventiv setup overclocked to 2.8ghz will make the dual 1.8ghz Opterons cry in pain in every day applications. The fact that you will be able to use the Prometia or the Vapochill setups for the next 5-10 years like i previously mentioned will also give you an edge by helping you to continuously stay in front of the market.

Don't believe me? See just how well a 3.2ghz P4 HT stacks up against the dual 2.66 xeon and dual 1.4 opteron setup.

Just read this Review here. And also a dual setup is plagued by instability as described in this Review. Yes a 1.8x2 opteron setup will most likely be faster than a 3.2ghz p4 but for that kind of money you can easily build a faster single processor system. Don't forgetNow I have never used a dual setup but looking at the benchmarks, there is no way a 4.0ghz p4 will lose to a 1.8x2 opteron unless you use very specific programs that thrive on a dual setup which don't seem to be the "normal" applications tested in the article that we have all heard of before. One thing is for certain a single high speed cpu is better for gaming and there is no doubts or ifs about it. So again it all depends on your usage, and how much you are willing to spend and so far you have not explained thoroughly what kind of things you are going to do with your system.

In Summary:

"Workstations are typically very specialized machines, so you'll have to decide for yourself which of these platforms makes the most sense for your particular needs. If you are faced with the choice of a top-of-the-line single-processor PC or a lower-end workstation-class system, you can see from our tests that the choice may be quite a dilemma. Clearly, in most tasks, the faster single-processor system outperforms a slower dual-processor workstation. However, for tasks that are easily parallelizable, like 3D rendering, multiprocessor systems can be worth investigating." - The TechReport

So if you are going to get a 1.6+ x 2 opteron setup or a 2.8x 2 xeon setup, one can always make an argument for a faster single cpu than a 3.4ghz p4 (like overclocking it). So unless you overclock the dual setup or have specific needs for it I dont see how it's a better setup. Look at it this way in a couple months you can get P4 on socket T or A64 on socket 939 giving you a cheap upgrade path and very fast performance. Upgrading a dual setup will cost you an arm and a leg and you can bet all the money in the world that by the time A64 reaches beyond 4500+ ghz and P4 passes 4.5ghz mark it will make your setup look dated and when you realize you want to upgrade those 2 dual CPU's another person would spend $300-400 to get the faster single chip while you'll find yourself putting down another $800 just to match their speed. Not to mention the fact that when Intel moves to an 800FSB you wont be able to upgrade on the motherboard you will buy now thus requiring you to purchase a new motherboard for your dual setup again....And if you buy an opteron setup, the registered ram will become useless whether as if you get some normal dual-channel ddr you can reuse it probably until 2006-2007 when the next Pentium and AMD will be introduced. So all this time you'd be able to smoothly update the single processor rig making it faster and faster....while the other 2 setups will either sit there and age or require costly updates every time.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Wolfsraider
if you were to wait the narcona's (sp?) are coming from intel 800 fsb and 64 bit
since the xeon's are 533 that will give a nice boost

but then again it comes down to budget and availability etc...

People are going to buy that?

Many many businesses are going to buy that 😉

Since they are crippled in 4way by the fsb noconas might get a hefty performance boost in heavy SMP as well.

 

[sharkeeper]

Ok after everyone being utterly stunned by this topic as no one clearly searched for the benchmarks of these setups I am gonna end this once and for all.

UNLESS you use your dual opteron or dual xeon setup for specific applications like rendering, P4 3.2HT+ will be faster than a dual xeon 2.66 or dual 1.4 opteron setup in gaming, decoding, encoding, mathematical calculations.

A dual setup will greatly benefit from workstation and rendering applications and even at that not always faster than a single fast cpu.

I understand you are thinking of getting a dual 2.8 and dual 1.6 opteron setup but still then for the same money you can overclock a 3.4ghz p4 to 4.0 and it will ABSOLUTELY crush any of those setups. It's always been a myth that a dual setup gives a huge increase in performance because it does not! Only for specific uses.

I don't even want to mention getting an FX53 or 3.4ghz P4EE setup and overclocking those because they will leave the dual setup in the dust and still cost less! And there is no way in the world a 4ghz p4 with raptors and some solid ram loses to a dual setup with slower speed ram and normal non-10,000rpm hard drives. And if you want to get SCSI hard drives they better be the top 2 ranked on storage review cuz those are the only 2 faster than the 74gig raptors for normal applications besides server usage (will your rig act as a server?) Of course a SCSI card and SCSI drives cost a lot more to start with. If you start adding up all these costs, you'll quickly find yourself far exceeding $2000US. I don't want to mention again but an FX51/53 with an Nventiv setup overclocked to 2.8ghz will make the dual 1.8ghz Opterons cry in pain in every day applications. The fact that you will be able to use the Prometia or the Vapochill setups for the next 5-10 years like i previously mentioned will also give you an edge by helping you to continuously stay in front of the market.

Don't believe me? See just how well a 3.2ghz P4 HT stacks up against the dual 2.66 xeon and dual 1.4 opteron setup.

Just read this Review here. And also a dual setup is plagued by instability as described in this Review. Yes a 1.8x2 opteron setup will most likely be faster than a 3.2ghz p4 but for that kind of money you can easily build a faster single processor system. Don't forgetNow I have never used a dual setup but looking at the benchmarks, there is no way a 4.0ghz p4 will lose to a 1.8x2 opteron unless you use very specific programs that thrive on a dual setup which don't seem to be the "normal" applications tested in the article that we have all heard of before. One thing is for certain a single high speed cpu is better for gaming and there is no doubts or ifs about it. So again it all depends on your usage, and how much you are willing to spend and so far you have not explained thoroughly what kind of things you are going to do with your system.

LOL, yet another reviewer brainwashed by reviews with no real experience of use with real products!

If one is to invest in a real workstation setup, forget about overclocking and buy either an Intel Mainboard or SuperMicro. If Opteron is your cup of tea, go for Tyan. The MSI board they were using is garbage. Asus isn't much better. (Iwill isn't much further behind them either!) SuperMicro products are top notch with top notch support.

Forget the benchmarks! My wife's P4 system has much higher benchmarks in the typical realm that people tend to praise on these boards (Sandra/PCMark whatever, 3DMark whatever, timedemo this, time demo that) and my wife is a crazy gamer to boot. Yet she still is highly envious of my "rocketship" of a system that is slower in most of the benchmarks outside of storage. Stability? The system *never* crashes. Hers does but not very often, perhaps a lockup a month but is probably PEBKAC since it will run Prime95 for a week (two processes) and MT98 ran 100 tests with no problems. The anomalies occur at stock speed but *seem* to occur less. This is yet one reason why I don't overclock because I cannot afford to guess whether my workstation is producing accurate output in a process which if it was inaccurate could mean my ass.

Please stop comparing dual Raptors in RAID to SCSI RAID because there is no comparison. It's like comparing a Honda S2000 to a Porsche 911 twin turbo. In both cases and comparisons I've used both and the analogy is very real.

When XP/64 is gold, I may go with a SMP Opteron platform with 8GB of ram to see how it stacks up. Oh yes and that is another thing your little uniprocessor boards cannot do is address large amounts of ram at high speed with stability.

HT does indeed help out the P4 but it's nowhere near as effective as two CPU's.

IF all you plan to do is game, burn/rip DVD's and surf then a single P4 HT is probably fine. My wife isn't what I would exactly call a multi-tasker, yet when she sees mine open a program and work (same program she uses on her computer), she's floored and says why the F is your computer so much faster than mine? Then she'll spend an hour looking on ebay for SCSI stuff and pester me and I will tell her that she can't put it in her system because her motherboard doesn't have PCI-X and she says no wonder the person didn't want to pay for this piece of sh!t! :|

The good news is I will have no arguments from her when it comes upgrade time for me! 😀 Of course when she sees that I have Windows XP 64bit edition and asks for that and I have to tell her the system (my lowly xeon) won't run it, we go for yet another round of adventure. The joys of being married to a geek! :Q

Cheers!

 

[Dug]

My "lowly" Xeon with Dual 2.8's and SCSI RAID stomps it so hard she is thoroughly jealous

 

[RussianSensation]

Brainwashed by reviews? I am simply stating what I read from a knowledgeable website. And I am going to believe them over you any day because they had years of experience and knowledge.

Like i said if you want to build a workstation for rendering and server-based applications dual cpus are better i am not arguying that. For other every day tasks a high end cpu is better and the benchmarks prove it. You even admit your wife's computer benches faster so it must be specific uses where the 2 cpus are faster but did nemaNIN tell us specifically what programs he will run that will so greatly benefit from these 2 cpus? Nope.

Also like i mentioned 2 scsi drives already cost way more than 2 raptors. If you check storage review you will see only 2 scsi drives that can beat the 74gig raptor in general usage applications.

In Office benchmark the faster of the 2 beats the Raptor by only 2.4%. Raptor is the fastest for High-end, Boot-up benches, loses in gaming by only 5.6% to the fastest, and so on read Here. Like I said unless you plan on running the dually as a server a SCSI setup will not be better for office and general usage applications, not even taking into account the higher costs.

Anyway if you already think a dual setup "feels" faster there is no point in arguying this because you'll ignore all the benchmarks even if they beat the dual setup. The fact of the matter is, no magazine in the world and no person who has ever broken records has recommended a dual setup system because it's not faster. It is faster in specific uses no doubt, but until nemaNIN mentions at least more than 50% of the programs that greatly benefit from a dual setup, a single CPU is a better solution in my opinion and in the opinion dedicated websites and magazines that have far more experience and knowledge than you. And apparently you do not take into account the system as a whole because you completely missed my points made regarding the costs and performance of upgrades to follow that each setup will incur....

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Wolfsraider
if you were to wait the narcona's (sp?) are coming from intel 800 fsb and 64 bit
since the xeon's are 533 that will give a nice boost

but then again it comes down to budget and availability etc...

People are going to buy that?

Many many businesses are going to buy that 😉

That's a horrible horrible thought...

More PHBs tricked with poor Intel implimentations...

 

[Mloot]

Russian Sensation, I think you are missing the big picture here. Sure, the original poster asked for a poll that included a single proc system, but he also seems to be fully aware of the pros and cons of owning an SMP system, and that's what he wants to stay with. He has stated that he has had an SMP system for the last 4 years or so, so I doubt he is an uninformed n00b. In cases like this, when the poster knows what he wants and is fully aware of the limitations and strengths of an SMP system, wouldn't it do him the most good for us to help him make the most informed decisions he can based on what he wants?

I am like the original poster in that I have decided to upgrade my system, and this time I will be getting a dually. Not because I don't know that a single proc system is faster in many applications, but because I have funds to do so and because that is what I want. I have researched for about a year (from when I decided to build a system to the time it took me to save the funds) the pros and cons owning a dually, and I think a dually will suit me just fine.

 

[Swanny]

If you want SMP, go with the Opterons.

 

[ScrapSilicon]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Ok after everyone being utterly stunned by this topic as no one clearly searched for the benchmarks of these setups I am gonna end this once and for all.

UNLESS you use your dual opteron or dual xeon setup for specific applications like rendering, P4 3.2HT+ will be faster than a dual xeon 2.66 or dual 1.4 opteron setup in gaming, decoding, encoding, mathematical calculations.

A dual setup will greatly benefit from workstation and rendering applications and even at that not always faster than a single fast cpu.

I understand you are thinking of getting a dual 2.8 and dual 1.6 opteron setup but still then for the same money you can overclock a 3.4ghz p4 to 4.0 and it will ABSOLUTELY crush any of those setups. It's always been a myth that a dual setup gives a huge increase in performance because it does not! Only for specific uses.

I don't even want to mention getting an FX53 or 3.4ghz P4EE setup and overclocking those because they will leave the dual setup in the dust and still cost less! And there is no way in the world a 4ghz p4 with raptors and some solid ram loses to a dual setup with slower speed ram and normal non-10,000rpm hard drives. And if you want to get SCSI hard drives they better be the top 2 ranked on storage review cuz those are the only 2 faster than the 74gig raptors for normal applications besides server usage (will your rig act as a server?) Of course a SCSI card and SCSI drives cost a lot more to start with. If you start adding up all these costs, you'll quickly find yourself far exceeding $2000US. I don't want to mention again but an FX51/53 with an Nventiv setup overclocked to 2.8ghz will make the dual 1.8ghz Opterons cry in pain in every day applications. The fact that you will be able to use the Prometia or the Vapochill setups for the next 5-10 years like i previously mentioned will also give you an edge by helping you to continuously stay in front of the market.

Don't believe me? See just how well a 3.2ghz P4 HT stacks up against the dual 2.66 xeon and dual 1.4 opteron setup.

Just read this Review here. And also a dual setup is plagued by instability as described in this Review. Yes a 1.8x2 opteron setup will most likely be faster than a 3.2ghz p4 but for that kind of money you can easily build a faster single processor system. Don't forgetNow I have never used a dual setup but looking at the benchmarks, there is no way a 4.0ghz p4 will lose to a 1.8x2 opteron unless you use very specific programs that thrive on a dual setup which don't seem to be the "normal" applications tested in the article that we have all heard of before. One thing is for certain a single high speed cpu is better for gaming and there is no doubts or ifs about it. So again it all depends on your usage, and how much you are willing to spend and so far you have not explained thoroughly what kind of things you are going to do with your system.

In Summary:

"Workstations are typically very specialized machines, so you'll have to decide for yourself which of these platforms makes the most sense for your particular needs. If you are faced with the choice of a top-of-the-line single-processor PC or a lower-end workstation-class system, you can see from our tests that the choice may be quite a dilemma. Clearly, in most tasks, the faster single-processor system outperforms a slower dual-processor workstation. However, for tasks that are easily parallelizable, like 3D rendering, multiprocessor systems can be worth investigating." - The TechReport

So if you are going to get a 1.6+ x 2 opteron setup or a 2.8x 2 xeon setup, one can always make an argument for a faster single cpu than a 3.4ghz p4 (like overclocking it). So unless you overclock the dual setup or have specific needs for it I dont see how it's a better setup. Look at it this way in a couple months you can get P4 on socket T or A64 on socket 939 giving you a cheap upgrade path and very fast performance. So all this time you'd be able to smoothly update the single processor rig making it faster and faster....while the other 2 setups will either sit there and age or require costly updates every time.

nice contradiction to your previous...

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
If you are gonna spend $1500 on a system....

FX53, FX51 or P4 3.4 coupled with an Nventiv Mach II or Vapochill cooling would probably be faster than your dually setup, more fun to play around with, more future proof because you'll be able to overclock for the next 5-10 years and have the fastest performance in comparison to the market every year by simply upgrading the processor and overclocking it again and again.

a 4.2ghz p4 HT or a 2.8ghz A64.....hmmm.....dreamy

Intel socket change..always..
dreamy is how long the socket A platform ran..whereas Intel..changes cpu platforms faster than some people change suits..😛
if you gotta have inexpensive smp that's up from you p3 ..go the xeon route..if you can hold out and acquire more fundage..Swanny said it succinctly 😉

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Mloot
Russian Sensation, I think you are missing the big picture here. Sure, the original poster asked for a poll that included a single proc system, but he also seems to be fully aware of the pros and cons of owning an SMP system, and that's what he wants to stay with. He has stated that he has had an SMP system for the last 4 years or so, so I doubt he is an uninformed n00b. In cases like this, when the poster knows what he wants and is fully aware of the limitations and strengths of an SMP system, wouldn't it do him the most good for us to help him make the most informed decisions he can based on what he wants?

I am like the original poster in that I have decided to upgrade my system, and this time I will be getting a dually. Not because I don't know that a single proc system is faster in many applications, but because I have funds to do so and because that is what I want. I have researched for about a year (from when I decided to build a system to the time it took me to save the funds) the pros and cons owning a dually, and I think a dually will suit me just fine.

I understand that but then he should have simply included dual opteron vs. dual xeon setup in the poll.
Yes you are right if he is set on buying a dual setup there is no point in trying to prove anything otherwise and let him choose between xeon vs. opteron setup.

 

[RussianSensation]

ScrapSilicon

How am i contradicting myself? In one case I simply stated that you can get the current setup and overclock it and then use the Nventiv or Vapochill cooling for the next 5 years by simply changing the head of the socket and get a new mobo and thus staying ahead of the market at all times.

Or I also told him the option of waiting for socket 939 and socket T so he could still upgrade a long time but now he wouldnt have to buy a new motherboard for at least 2 years because that is how long both sockets will last. Socket 939 and Socket T will take both systems past 5000+ rating. You are just trying to nitpick my answer and find any possible thing you could talk about, but you did not actually have a response towards how much faster and more cost effective a dual setup is against a single cpu? I wonder why...

I am not going to state exactly that he has to buy a new mobo later if he buys an FX53 or whatever today on the older chipset -- that is implied. I am sure you can read between the lines. If he wants and enjoys the dual setup then it's his decision but then he should not have asked to compare a dual setup to a single cpu and otherwise I would have not started all this. "every year by simply upgrading the processor and overclocking it again and again" applies to the fact that Nventiv or Vapochill cooling setup will help anyone to be ahead of the market continuously. I didnt suggest that he buys a new cpu for 5-10 years without having to change other parts, because he will have to but the dual setup will also suffer from similar upgrades but be more expensive every time. The fact of the matter is it will be cheaper to upgrade a single cpu setup and stay ahead esp with such amazing cooling at your disposal.

But either way if he wants the dual setup then that's fine but i just wanted to voice my opinion.