Poll: Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson, both in their prime.

[MongGrel]

Fuck you, fuck you and fuck you! Who's next? :biggrin:

:thumbsup:

:biggrin:

 

[Miramonti]

No fight is won until it's fought.

No. Some fights are essentially over before they start, as an opponent has been psyched out in advance, while others never start because an opponent has been intimidated and backs down in advance of a fight.

On the other hand, one could say no fight is won until it's fought when it involves an old retired fighter and a very old retired fighter with advanced stages of Parkinson disease.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah, Ali probably wouldn't survive the first round.

 

[alkemyst]

Sun Tzu disagrees.

QFT, I think SmackABaby may think Sun Tzu some kind of new energy drink or something though.

Edit: sadly I agreed with this. You are talking WAR...not face to face fighting between just two men with no one else on the battlefield/ring.

War is much more complicated and collateral damage is allowed.

 

[alkemyst]

No. Some fights are essentially over before they start, as an opponent has been psyched out in advance, while others never start because an opponent has been intimidated and backs down in advance of a fight.

On the other hand, one could say no fight is won until it's fought when it involves an old retired fighter and a very old retired fighter with advanced stages of Parkinson disease.

Once you get in that ring, that's the fight.

I hope you understand now.

 

[bradley]

Yeah, Ali probably wouldn't survive the first round.

Tyson, in his absolute prime, at 24yo, was KOed by the six years older Buster f'n Douglas -- and never beat anyone as good as George Foreman, Joe Fraiser, Larry Holmes and Joe Norton in their prime.

The biggest notables Tyson fought prior to Douglas were already past their prime in Holmes (16 years older) and Spinks (10 years older.)

Tyson's camp even prolonged challenging fights against that generation's best (eg., Riddick Bowe vs. Tyson shamefully never happened) in favor of journeymen and also-rans. And when Tyson couldn't KO these lesser opponents in the first few rounds, he sometimes lacked stamina to go the distance.

However when Tyson did fight his generation's best, the outcome was his being KOed against Lennox Lewis and Holyfield... both a year or two older than Tyson. Oh, and Holyfield was considered the washed-up underdog during his fight with Tyson.

Admirably, Ali's last fight was a 10th round loss (in an unanimous decision, 97-94) against the twenty-one years younger Trevor Berbick. What an impressive way to close his boxing career, and open a new chapter and fight against the early stages of Parkinson's.

But yeah, Tyson was truly awesome in Punch Out!!

 

[alkemyst]

Tyson, in his absolute prime, at 24yo, was KOed by the six years older Buster f'n Douglas -- and never beat anyone as good as George Foreman, Joe Fraiser, Larry Holmes and Joe Norton in their prime.

The biggest notables Tyson fought prior to Douglas were already past their prime in Holmes (16 years older) and Spinks (10 years older.)

Tyson's camp even prolonged challenging fights against that generation's best (eg., Riddick Bowe vs. Tyson shamefully never happened) in favor of journeymen and also-rans. And when Tyson couldn't KO these lesser opponents in the first few rounds, he sometimes lacked stamina to go the distance.

However when Tyson did fight his generation's best, the outcome was his being KOed against Lennox Lewis and Holyfield... both a year or two older than Tyson. Oh, and Holyfield was considered the washed-up underdog during his fight with Tyson.

Admirably, Ali's last fight was a 10th round loss (in an unanimous decision, 97-94) against the twenty-one years younger Trevor Berbick. What an impressive way to close his boxing career, and open a new chapter and fight against the early stages of Parkinson's.

But yeah, Tyson was truly awesome in Punch Out!!

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/24/mike-tyson-greatest-fights-fear-factor

 

[MongGrel]

QFT, I think SmackABaby may think Sun Tzu some kind of new energy drink or something though.

I highly doubt it.

 

[alkemyst]

Thanks Confucius! Any thing else you'd like to add?

No man loses the fight, until that fight was fought.

There have been epic disappointments in war, battles and even simple fist fights.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Ali. Most of Ali's big fights weren't even during his prime and he still wrecked face for one, but he's already shown time and time again he could handle boxers like Mike Tyson. Ali after his prime might be a closer fight, but as long as we're talking a little after his return to boxing I think he would still win.

 

[norseamd]

QFT, I think SmackABaby may think Sun Tzu some kind of new energy drink or something though. Edit: sadly I agreed with this. You are talking WAR...not face to face fighting between just two men with no one else on the battlefield/ring. War is much more complicated and collateral damage is allowed.

Did you not know who Sun Tzu was?

 

[edro]

I tend to go with modern hero athletes in these comparisons mainly due to more specialized fitness, diets and training.

I think Tyson's power would win.
Ali had an iron jaw, reach advantage and general tactics, but I think Tyson could get a few rock solid hits in and drop Ali.

 

[edro]

Tyson, in his absolute prime, at 24yo, was KOed by the six years older Buster f'n Douglas -- and never beat anyone as good as George Foreman, Joe Fraiser, Larry Holmes and Joe Norton in their prime.

The biggest notables Tyson fought prior to Douglas were already past their prime in Holmes (16 years older) and Spinks (10 years older.)

Tyson's camp even prolonged challenging fights against that generation's best (eg., Riddick Bowe vs. Tyson shamefully never happened) in favor of journeymen and also-rans. And when Tyson couldn't KO these lesser opponents in the first few rounds, he sometimes lacked stamina to go the distance.

However when Tyson did fight his generation's best, the outcome was his being KOed against Lennox Lewis and Holyfield... both a year or two older than Tyson. Oh, and Holyfield was considered the washed-up underdog during his fight with Tyson.

Admirably, Ali's last fight was a 10th round loss (in an unanimous decision, 97-94) against the twenty-one years younger Trevor Berbick. What an impressive way to close his boxing career, and open a new chapter and fight against the early stages of Parkinson's.

But yeah, Tyson was truly awesome in Punch Out!!

Wow, nicely put post.

I'm on Ali's side now.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Honestly I don't see any man beating a prime Tyson. That was seriously the most vicious example of human punching power and speed ever seen. I don't care how good you are when one body blow can put you to your knees.

 

[Blackjack200]

Tyson, in his absolute prime, at 24yo, was KOed by the six years older Buster f'n Douglas -- and never beat anyone as good as George Foreman, Joe Fraiser, Larry Holmes and Joe Norton in their prime.

The biggest notables Tyson fought prior to Douglas were already past their prime in Holmes (16 years older) and Spinks (10 years older.)

Tyson's camp even prolonged challenging fights against that generation's best (eg., Riddick Bowe vs. Tyson shamefully never happened) in favor of journeymen and also-rans. And when Tyson couldn't KO these lesser opponents in the first few rounds, he sometimes lacked stamina to go the distance.

However when Tyson did fight his generation's best, the outcome was his being KOed against Lennox Lewis and Holyfield... both a year or two older than Tyson. Oh, and Holyfield was considered the washed-up underdog during his fight with Tyson.

Admirably, Ali's last fight was a 10th round loss (in an unanimous decision, 97-94) against the twenty-one years younger Trevor Berbick. What an impressive way to close his boxing career, and open a new chapter and fight against the early stages of Parkinson's.

But yeah, Tyson was truly awesome in Punch Out!!

Read the post above mine, I meant if the fight was today.

 

[norseamd]

Honestly I don't see any man beating a prime Tyson. That was seriously the most vicious example of human punching power and speed ever seen. I don't care how good you are when one body blow can put you to your knees.

Not true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJCh5BDejiA

 

[angminas]

Not true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJCh5BDejiA

 

[norseamd]

Well I thought we were talking about pure dangerousness and knockout power not skill as a boxer or fighter or who would even win.

 

[Iron Woode]

Ali had the Rope-A-Dope. You gotta be tough to do that.

I would rather see a match between George Foreman and Mike Tyson in their prime. That would be very nasty.

 

[momeNt]

Tyson, in his absolute prime, at 24yo, was KOed by the six years older Buster f'n Douglas -- and never beat anyone as good as George Foreman, Joe Fraiser, Larry Holmes and Joe Norton in their prime.

The biggest notables Tyson fought prior to Douglas were already past their prime in Holmes (16 years older) and Spinks (10 years older.)

Tyson's camp even prolonged challenging fights against that generation's best (eg., Riddick Bowe vs. Tyson shamefully never happened) in favor of journeymen and also-rans. And when Tyson couldn't KO these lesser opponents in the first few rounds, he sometimes lacked stamina to go the distance.

However when Tyson did fight his generation's best, the outcome was his being KOed against Lennox Lewis and Holyfield... both a year or two older than Tyson. Oh, and Holyfield was considered the washed-up underdog during his fight with Tyson.

Admirably, Ali's last fight was a 10th round loss (in an unanimous decision, 97-94) against the twenty-one years younger Trevor Berbick. What an impressive way to close his boxing career, and open a new chapter and fight against the early stages of Parkinson's.

But yeah, Tyson was truly awesome in Punch Out!!

I don't think you can break down a boxer that way. Tyson had already slowed down considerably by the time he lost his first bout. The quickness in his core was gone. He was a great fighter because he had a youthful elasticity and quickness coupled with great punching power. By the time he fought Douglas, he had lost that elasticity and was left with just a quick punch. A great example of this is the Holyfield fight, he is so clumsy he headbutts himself a few times against Holyfield, and Holyfield is also able to land counterpunches on Tyson's offensives. I don't really think you can look at 1985 tape of Mike Tyson and tell me that Holyfield could have ever counterpunched those offensives.

I don't think a boxer who relied as much as Tyson did on the depth and speed of his bob and weave can translate that into their mid-20s. Not with the core mass necessary to be a heavyweight that's for sure.

 

[eits]

mike tyson would have knocked ali out in the 2nd round, for sure. tyson has way too much power for ali to simply glance off.

 

[angminas]

mike tyson would have knocked ali out in the 2nd round, for sure. tyson has way too much power for ali to simply glance off.

People said the same thing about Foreman, who hit significantly harder than Tyson (though slower).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs-CfeLNspE

Tyson would have destroyed Foreman, though. Foreman didn't have the speed or skill to keep Tyson from getting inside, where Tyson's short arms would actually be an advantage. The strongest man can be dropped with one good uppercut. It's as much about matchups as anything else- Tyson is a bad matchup for Foreman, just like Ali is a bad matchup for Tyson.

 

[smackababy]

Tyson, in his absolute prime, at 24yo, was KOed by the six years older Buster f'n Douglas -- and never beat anyone as good as George Foreman, Joe Fraiser, Larry Holmes and Joe Norton in their prime.

The biggest notables Tyson fought prior to Douglas were already past their prime in Holmes (16 years older) and Spinks (10 years older.)

Tyson's camp even prolonged challenging fights against that generation's best (eg., Riddick Bowe vs. Tyson shamefully never happened) in favor of journeymen and also-rans. And when Tyson couldn't KO these lesser opponents in the first few rounds, he sometimes lacked stamina to go the distance.

However when Tyson did fight his generation's best, the outcome was his being KOed against Lennox Lewis and Holyfield... both a year or two older than Tyson. Oh, and Holyfield was considered the washed-up underdog during his fight with Tyson.

Admirably, Ali's last fight was a 10th round loss (in an unanimous decision, 97-94) against the twenty-one years younger Trevor Berbick. What an impressive way to close his boxing career, and open a new chapter and fight against the early stages of Parkinson's.

But yeah, Tyson was truly awesome in Punch Out!!

We went over this. Tyson, at 24, was past his prime in the Douglas fight. He was way unfocused, his trainer and management were incompetent idiots, he was down the rabbit hole of smoking crack and stalking Robin Givens. Had Tyson been in his prime, Douglas stood no chance.

Also, people talking about Ali's Rope-a-dope, forget he tried that for the first time against Joe Fraizer, who rocked him. Ali, was far too cocky to take an opponent like Tyson seriously. Tyson had an image that was of a dumb brawler, despite his obvious speed and skill. Ali would try and dance around, and catch a few punches that would rock him.

 

[Phoenix86]

People said the same thing about Foreman, who hit significantly harder than Tyson (though slower).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs-CfeLNspE

Tyson would have destroyed Foreman, though. Foreman didn't have the speed or skill to keep Tyson from getting inside, where Tyson's short arms would actually be an advantage. The strongest man can be dropped with one good uppercut. It's as much about matchups as anything else- Tyson is a bad matchup for Foreman, just like Ali is a bad matchup for Tyson.

Are you seriously comparing the speed of Foreman to Tyson??

 

[momeNt]

We went over this. Tyson, at 24, was past his prime in the Douglas fight. He was way unfocused, his trainer and management were incompetent idiots, he was down the rabbit hole of smoking crack and stalking Robin Givens. Had Tyson been in his prime, Douglas stood no chance.

Also, people talking about Ali's Rope-a-dope, forget he tried that for the first time against Joe Fraizer, who rocked him. Ali, was far too cocky to take an opponent like Tyson seriously. Tyson had an image that was of a dumb brawler, despite his obvious speed and skill. Ali would try and dance around, and catch a few punches that would rock him.

I'd imagine that Tyson/Ali would go pretty similar to Ali/Frazier 1. Tyson was too fast for that style of fighting. I don't think Tyson could knock him out though, so he would need the stamina to go the distance or damn close to it. An old Ali took some clean shots from Earnie Shavers and didn't get knocked out.

I have a feeling that if Ali was actually able to get KO'd he would't have such a scrambled brain. If his jaw would have just failed him more often on those vicious hits he took, he wouldn't have experienced such prolonged brain rattling sessions.