Aceman, please, you need help. Regardless of what McVeigh did, it is dispicable to wish and crave death on another human being. McVeigh may be the incarnate of evil to many, but that doesn't give society carte blanche to murder. It serves no logic to lower yourself to his level.
I think that instead of lethal injection they should insert a small amount of explosives in each of his oriffices and detonate one by one at 18 minute intervals.
Guess which one would be the first one to go off?
Guess which one would be the first one to go off?
I think he has to die. I don't like lethal injection though. I would much prefer public beheading or firing squad. Both of those are VERY quick and should produce little or no suffering.... my intent in grusome, public execution is to let others see the penalty for certain crimes and my hope is that it would be somewhat of a deterent to others.
As for Mr. McViegh, I hope that he makes peace with the Lord and turns away from who he has been and towards what he could be. If any ask where the justice is in his repenting and going to Heaven, please remember that Jesus died a grusome, public and torturous death for all who would believe, including you and me and Mr. McViegh.
Joe
As for Mr. McViegh, I hope that he makes peace with the Lord and turns away from who he has been and towards what he could be. If any ask where the justice is in his repenting and going to Heaven, please remember that Jesus died a grusome, public and torturous death for all who would believe, including you and me and Mr. McViegh.
Joe
<<I think that instead of lethal injection they should insert a small amount of explosives in each of his oriffices and detonate one by one at 18 minute intervals.
Guess which one would be the first one to go off?>>
hahahahhhhhhhahhhahahahhahahahah, you are a fvcking genius! thats a lot better than my idea for his death. fully man
hey mithrandir2001 i know what you mean, ususally i would be like you and say we shouldn't kill people. I usually say "we shouldn't play God" when i discuss the death penalty or abortions and "It's barbaric" for war too, but man, McViegh just deserves to die. I'm not even gonna defend this one.
peace
sean
Guess which one would be the first one to go off?>>
hahahahhhhhhhahhhahahahhahahahah, you are a fvcking genius! thats a lot better than my idea for his death. fully man
hey mithrandir2001 i know what you mean, ususally i would be like you and say we shouldn't kill people. I usually say "we shouldn't play God" when i discuss the death penalty or abortions and "It's barbaric" for war too, but man, McViegh just deserves to die. I'm not even gonna defend this one.
peace
sean
<< Violent revenge is uncivil and barbaric, just like the death penalty. >>
That's beautiful.........But since when did we live in a civil unbarbaric world?
I need no help.
What's worse is that McVeigh is a coward. I have more respect for a suicidal bomber that wastes him/herself in the cause he/she was "fighting" for.
I'll respect you and your opinion on capital punishment as long as you respect mine.
bunker
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2001
- 10,572
- 0
- 71
I am all for the death penalty, however, I don't think we should use it. At least not until it's used properly. Before anyone says I don't know what I'm talking about, I have a degree in criminal justice. As it stands now the death penalty is not a deterrent. If an individual can afford anything other that the public defender, they will more than likely not get the death penalty. Also, the years it takes to carry one out is ridiculous, McVeigh's case is actually one of the fastest I've seen.
*edit for spelling
*edit for spelling
Bunker,
I think you hit the nail on the head. If they ACTUALLY carried out the death penalty swiftly without all the "stays", I think it'd become a deterrent. I too have a Criminal Justice degree. I don't believe we should carry out the death penalty unless there is 100% clear cut evidence of guilt or admission of guilt.
I think you hit the nail on the head. If they ACTUALLY carried out the death penalty swiftly without all the "stays", I think it'd become a deterrent. I too have a Criminal Justice degree. I don't believe we should carry out the death penalty unless there is 100% clear cut evidence of guilt or admission of guilt.
You don't understand the Death penatly. It's not for the gruesome revenge that some of you sickos have suggested, nor is it for "making a statement" or "taking a stance". It's quite simple really. McVeigh is a dangerous person, his existance puts the well being of innocent people in jeopardy, therefore the threat must be neutralized. It's a shame that he felt that killing people would accomplish anything, as he is an intelligent person, and I share a lot of his frustrations.
People who have no remorse, well, have no remorse. This guy had no value for life. I'm not talking about the people he killed, but HIS life. If he is executed means nothing to the poor people he murdered. Another sick person dies. Papers sell, News Station ratings go up. My 12 year old Son asked for my thoughts about all of this, and I gave him a hug and said "I love you Steve". He's a good kid you know, and God help us all if I ever say or do anything that leads him down the same path as Timothy McViegh.
Fry 'em. I think Mr. McVeigh has finally realized that it's time to leave this Earth - he doesn't want to appeal his death any more. He's ready, let him go.
Its about time we stopped supporting him. Let the taxpayers spend thier last cents on the chemicals. Sick bastard.
For guys like him, live cremation would be good. They should just get rid of him ASAP so everybody could get over it.
What they should do is disect his eyes with a razor and wrap him up in barbed wire. Then they should put him in a stock (like in the old old days) but instead of throwing fruit and lettuce at him, the should jab him in the face with a chain saw. Then they should show it on stileproject.com.
It is time for McViegh to pay the penalty for breaking the laws of our social and justice system. Hopefully we will all soon forget about hime and this terrible act and heal somewhat over this tragic event.
I hope it also deters some other people who think they can get away with things.
I hope it also deters some other people who think they can get away with things.
He should be fried....
Last time I checked, Utah State still had the option of a firing squad as a means for death penalty. I don't know if they still have or use this anymore.
**Edit**
The most recent execution using this method was in 1996. Five rifleman shoot at the heart of the condemned. The prisoner wears a dark navy uniform, with a white cloth directly over the heart (makes better aiming for shooters). It takes from 8-10 minutes on average to pronounce the person dead.
Also, Idaho and Oklahoma still have this option as well. In China, they just put you on your knees, and one shooter walks up to the back of your head, and you get the idea.
Last time I checked, Utah State still had the option of a firing squad as a means for death penalty. I don't know if they still have or use this anymore.
**Edit**
The most recent execution using this method was in 1996. Five rifleman shoot at the heart of the condemned. The prisoner wears a dark navy uniform, with a white cloth directly over the heart (makes better aiming for shooters). It takes from 8-10 minutes on average to pronounce the person dead.
Also, Idaho and Oklahoma still have this option as well. In China, they just put you on your knees, and one shooter walks up to the back of your head, and you get the idea.
<< I agree, he IS getting off easy.
slow, slow and painful torture is acceptable. There is no excuse for what he did. >>
Exactly, I could not agree more, they should burn that SOB alive.
<< The only people who have problems are those who think the world will be a better place if the Federal Government murders a prisoner. >>
What if he escapes and kills another hundred people? Will you continue saying "Let him live!"?
I know, there's very little chance of that, but it's a possibility.
mastertech01
Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
- Nov 13, 1999
- 11,875
- 282
- 126
This is and always will be a controversial question..and very difficult to answer. For many on death row it may be a question of whether the person is actually guilty of the crime. McVeigh has already openly admitted this crime and is being punished according to the laws of the land.
One day I will be involved in such a controversy, regarding what happened to my daughter.I will not be able to make the decision, but I am sure I will be asked my opinions if a conviction is made. Thus I have pondered this question for some time.
I dont believe we should try to act like a God to make that decision but likewise do not believe our government does this to act as a God. It is a necessary evil to make a statement that if you murder in cold blood you must be prepared to sacrifice your own life as an example of the nations intolerance of such a crime. If you believe as a Christian you must remember that the Lord said to "give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's, give to me what is mine" and I believe that stands for even your physical body in the flesh, when a horrible crime as this is committed.. to give up your mortal life for that crime. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
But even if we were to abolish death penalty there in lies a huge problem. Why must we afford so many opportunities for the convicted to appeal and appeal crimes that have been proven without a doubt.Why must we allow these criminals to repeatedly make a mockery of our justice system and wear out the appeals courts, spending millions of dollars in wasted time and resources for those who simply want to get out easy? Sure there are rare cases of innocents being jailed and a few put on death row for crimes not properly proven in a rush to judgement. But in these clear cases of guilt why must America shoulder such a burden for a scum bag like McVeigh? If it were simply a matter of imprisoning hard core criminals in a remote cell, devoid of rights and priveledges accorded to the honest citizen, to bear the shame and guilt of his crime, I would have no problem letting him survive just to survive if that is his only intent. But that is not how it works and too often the hardened criminal is released many years later only to commit more crime, often murdering more innocent people. That is wrong, and that is primarily why I support the death penalty. Then again would it be more merciful to execute this person, or make him wrot in prison in solitude for ever? Some would find it more appealing to see a person wrot away living than to die a quick and merciful execution.
So really people, given the true alternatives that SHOULD be implaced for this kind of criminal and execution, what is MORE merciful?
One day I will be involved in such a controversy, regarding what happened to my daughter.I will not be able to make the decision, but I am sure I will be asked my opinions if a conviction is made. Thus I have pondered this question for some time.
I dont believe we should try to act like a God to make that decision but likewise do not believe our government does this to act as a God. It is a necessary evil to make a statement that if you murder in cold blood you must be prepared to sacrifice your own life as an example of the nations intolerance of such a crime. If you believe as a Christian you must remember that the Lord said to "give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's, give to me what is mine" and I believe that stands for even your physical body in the flesh, when a horrible crime as this is committed.. to give up your mortal life for that crime. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
But even if we were to abolish death penalty there in lies a huge problem. Why must we afford so many opportunities for the convicted to appeal and appeal crimes that have been proven without a doubt.Why must we allow these criminals to repeatedly make a mockery of our justice system and wear out the appeals courts, spending millions of dollars in wasted time and resources for those who simply want to get out easy? Sure there are rare cases of innocents being jailed and a few put on death row for crimes not properly proven in a rush to judgement. But in these clear cases of guilt why must America shoulder such a burden for a scum bag like McVeigh? If it were simply a matter of imprisoning hard core criminals in a remote cell, devoid of rights and priveledges accorded to the honest citizen, to bear the shame and guilt of his crime, I would have no problem letting him survive just to survive if that is his only intent. But that is not how it works and too often the hardened criminal is released many years later only to commit more crime, often murdering more innocent people. That is wrong, and that is primarily why I support the death penalty. Then again would it be more merciful to execute this person, or make him wrot in prison in solitude for ever? Some would find it more appealing to see a person wrot away living than to die a quick and merciful execution.
So really people, given the true alternatives that SHOULD be implaced for this kind of criminal and execution, what is MORE merciful?
It bothers me to see vicious, destructive attitudes over the death penalty and McVeigh. Look, no one here is questioning whether he killed 168 people or whether he deserves punishment. Perhaps it is a primal response for humans to respond to death with more death. But this inidividual believes it is truly impossible for a society to be considered "advanced" or "enlightened" if we employ the death penalty to punish our criminals.
When I envision what civilization will be like in the next millenium, I see a world where the death penalty has long been banished and is considered a primitive and inhumane form of "justice", just as individual liberty has conquered slavery and monarchies have been trumped by democracies in our historical past. I view the death penalty as a cop-out; it's a mechanism of crude punishment for a society that is otherwise unable to deal with the side effects of its own doing.
Instead of scheming of ways to kill McVeigh, we should divert our energies to determining what motivated McVeigh...and question whether society indirectly perpetrated it. I remain unconvinced that McVeigh was born into this world as a cold-hearted killer. He served his country during the Gulf War, but then something went horribly astray. How can a young man become so polarized and unremorseful in such a short period of time? I fear people think I am siding with McVeigh - I'm not - but I believe that executing McVeigh is simply sweeping all of the problems under the carpet.
After McVeigh's body is wheeled out of the execution room on Monday, many will proclaim "justice has been served" for the survivors of the victims. It hasn't, nor will it ever. The only testament that will prevail is that in the USA, Law has a right to kill, but citizens do not. This is the equivalent of a divide by zero computation. Death in the name of lawful justice is reprehensible and logically impossible.
Many will argue: McVeigh killed 168 in cold blood; there is no justice unless his death is served. That's not for society to declare. He is one of us, like it or not, and we will be failing ourselves if execution is viewed as the only method of retribution. The human race has so far to go...
mastertech01 -
Law and justice are complex concepts. Yes, it may seem frustrating how criminals proven guilty beyond any degree of doubt get one appeal right after another. But that's due process of law. Even our most hardened and vulgar criminals are given the right to appeal and the right to life. I admit it is tremendously frustrating at times. I'll get asked "how would you feel if one of your kin was one of the 168 killed in Oklahoma City?" I can't answer that and I don't think anyone with a soul could. You are dealing with a situation where the outcome of justice can never replace what life was like before the crime was committed. I think it is OK in a natural sense to feel hate toward a criminal who has taken away so much. But ultimately, leniency must prevail. Without leniency, there is no honor and there is no peace.
I'm neither a lawyer nor a judge so I can't tell you what should happen to McVeigh instead of executing him. But the USA is one of only 26 countries that still uses the death penalty. The other 150+ have found ways to administer justice without committing another crime against humanity.
When I envision what civilization will be like in the next millenium, I see a world where the death penalty has long been banished and is considered a primitive and inhumane form of "justice", just as individual liberty has conquered slavery and monarchies have been trumped by democracies in our historical past. I view the death penalty as a cop-out; it's a mechanism of crude punishment for a society that is otherwise unable to deal with the side effects of its own doing.
Instead of scheming of ways to kill McVeigh, we should divert our energies to determining what motivated McVeigh...and question whether society indirectly perpetrated it. I remain unconvinced that McVeigh was born into this world as a cold-hearted killer. He served his country during the Gulf War, but then something went horribly astray. How can a young man become so polarized and unremorseful in such a short period of time? I fear people think I am siding with McVeigh - I'm not - but I believe that executing McVeigh is simply sweeping all of the problems under the carpet.
After McVeigh's body is wheeled out of the execution room on Monday, many will proclaim "justice has been served" for the survivors of the victims. It hasn't, nor will it ever. The only testament that will prevail is that in the USA, Law has a right to kill, but citizens do not. This is the equivalent of a divide by zero computation. Death in the name of lawful justice is reprehensible and logically impossible.
Many will argue: McVeigh killed 168 in cold blood; there is no justice unless his death is served. That's not for society to declare. He is one of us, like it or not, and we will be failing ourselves if execution is viewed as the only method of retribution. The human race has so far to go...
mastertech01 -
Law and justice are complex concepts. Yes, it may seem frustrating how criminals proven guilty beyond any degree of doubt get one appeal right after another. But that's due process of law. Even our most hardened and vulgar criminals are given the right to appeal and the right to life. I admit it is tremendously frustrating at times. I'll get asked "how would you feel if one of your kin was one of the 168 killed in Oklahoma City?" I can't answer that and I don't think anyone with a soul could. You are dealing with a situation where the outcome of justice can never replace what life was like before the crime was committed. I think it is OK in a natural sense to feel hate toward a criminal who has taken away so much. But ultimately, leniency must prevail. Without leniency, there is no honor and there is no peace.
I'm neither a lawyer nor a judge so I can't tell you what should happen to McVeigh instead of executing him. But the USA is one of only 26 countries that still uses the death penalty. The other 150+ have found ways to administer justice without committing another crime against humanity.
<< When I envision what civilization will be like in the next millenium, I see a world where the death penalty has long been banished and is considered a primitive and inhumane form of "justice", just as individual liberty has conquered slavery and monarchies have been trumped by democracies in our historical past. I view the death penalty as a cop-out; it's a mechanism of crude punishment for a society that is otherwise unable to deal with the side effects of its own doing. >>
You envision a little place called Utopia. Thousands of years of existience and the closest society has come to fulfilling Utopia is their belief in the afterlife of a heaven. Utopia cannot exist with humans.
What good comes of McVeigh being alive. He'll never show remorse, he'll never unveil any conspiracy. And, he'll be alive in a prison cell watching CNN and eating Cheesy Poofs. He hasn't paid for his crimes. He's sitting in an uncomfortable Motel 6 and not even paying for the bill. Send him to his Maker and the ultimate appeals court!
<< Vengence is not a way to solve problem, it is the source of all problems!! >>
Great quote right there, ManSnake!
mithrandir2001, you put in to words what I try to visualize in my mind. Keep up the good work
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