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POLL: Manual drivers, how do you decelerate (to a full stop)?

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I just kinda mash pedals and grind gears til the thing finally stops 😛

Actually, I'm with the people who would downshift until they hit 3rd or 2nd, then push the clutch in and stop.
 
I downshift but I know its worse. It isn't as good because it puts wear on your clutch. Wear on your brakes is not nearly as costly and not even a quarter of the labor (in some situations). It basically comes down to what you would rather replace. The brakes or the clutch.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
In that scenario (my car is a 5spd), I would shift down to 4th at about 55-50, and into 3rd at about 40-35, and then ride 3rd down to about 20.
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those are some pretty high RPMs....

I usually leave it in gear and brake down to ~30mph (Which is about idle in 5th gear), then revmatch and put it in third. I then brake down to idle, then push the clutch in and come to a stop. No reason to downshift through ALL the gears...
 
Option B. Usually.

I generally only go through the gears if I'm on a track and am using engine braking to bleed some speed without having to hit the brakes and unbalance the car.

ZV
 
Originally posted by: Vic
I do what you're supposed to do, which is apply the brakes while smoothly downshifting through the gears at the same time. Please add that to the poll. In that scenario (my car is a 5spd), I would shift down to 4th at about 55-50, and into 3rd at about 40-35, and then ride 3rd down to about 20.
If I'm coming to a stop, I do not downshift into 2nd, and I never shift down into 1st until the car is stopped (or at the very least at a slow crawl). I also heel-and-toe rev-match every downshift. It's so a part of my driving habits now that I don't think I could not do it, and it bugs me whenever I drive someone else's manual trans car where the gas and brake pedals aren't properly setup for heel-and-toe'ing.

Riding in neutral is a big no-no. Dangerous and against the law in some states. And IMO the way n00bs drive a manual. You learned to shift up, now learn to shift down.
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:thumbsup:
 
😕

wow..msot of you suck at driving😛


Depending on the situation, I will respond differently, but if I have a lot of road ahead, I will down shift only through fourth and third after I give 5th a chance to slow down ( i have a 5sp) until I am going ~20-30, when I'll apply the brakes.

Two much shifting is a pain so I have no idea why you do it. you DO realize that releasign the gas will allow you to slow down right? If so, than 4th or thrid is all that is ususally required.


Of course, my route to class in the morning is quite different...

Average plan of action:


1st tthrough 5th to accelerate onstraightaway to ~50mph....see sharp turn..rev match..down shift to thrid.,...brake until halfway through turn....floor it.....brake,.....make next turn still in thrid.....floor it....on straighwaway 4th..then 5th~50mph......shift to thrid...HARD brake plus engine braking......

etc...the entire trip last about an hour~30-40 minutes of which i spend doing this...

Let's jsut say, my syncros, my shifter, my brakes, and my tires all LOVE me :heart: :lips:
 
Originally posted by: Vic
I do what you're supposed to do, which is apply the brakes while smoothly downshifting through the gears at the same time. Please add that to the poll. In that scenario (my car is a 5spd), I would shift down to 4th at about 55-50, and into 3rd at about 40-35, and then ride 3rd down to about 20.
If I'm coming to a stop, I do not downshift into 2nd, and I never shift down into 1st until the car is stopped (or at the very least at a slow crawl). I also heel-and-toe rev-match every downshift. It's so a part of my driving habits now that I don't think I could not do it, and it bugs me whenever I drive someone else's manual trans car where the gas and brake pedals aren't properly setup for heel-and-toe'ing.

Riding in neutral is a big no-no. Dangerous and against the law in some states. And IMO the way n00bs drive a manual. You learned to shift up, now learn to shift down.
Click to expand...
Two of my first vehicles were a VW pop top camper van and another VW van. The brakes were not spiffy on those bad boys, hell, the brakes weren't all that much on a VW bug (which I also had) so downshifting through the gears was sort of necessary. Anyway, I liked/like to drive, so it was fun, and downshifting always leaves you in the right gear for any unforseen traffic situation. Like Vic does, you simply apply the brakes at the same time, why not?

Btw, if you can find the sweet spots (can be mathematically derived if you know your ratios), and use your throttle, you can shift just fine without using the clutch at all.

Everyone and their grandpa always says, "brake pads are cheaper than clutches", but I've never even come close to wearing out a clutch. even going from 80.000 miles (and presumably first clutch still) to 230,000 miles. I guess I believe if you have that feel for your car and pay attention, your clutch will stay, well, clutch.

That said, I also believe that all that "being in neutral" is DANGEROUS stuff is way overstated. It's not optimal, though, and the situation could arise where being in the proper gear could make the split second difference. I

t is true, though, that there used to be, and probably still are, laws on the books against "freewheeling" (not engaged in a gear) while, say, going down hill, but, hell, those old Saab 96 two-strokes had automatic freewheeling clutches as a feature, as did some old Willys. so . . .

 
I don't drive a manual, and I'll admit I'm a car n00b, but I don't understand why people wouldn't use their brakes just as they would in an automatic (slow and gradual stopping), as opposed to forcing the transmission to do the work... THAT'S WHAT BRAKES ARE FOR... not only that, but destroying/wearing out the brakes can cost 200-400 dollars, while a transmission costs a hell of a lot more, AFAIK.
 
Push the clutch in, throw it in neutral, and use the brakes to slow me down. I rarely engine brake. If the light turns green, or traffic starts to go before a complete stop, I throw it in whatever gear (depending on speed) and get back rollin'.
 
I don't understand why the hell would you down shift thru all the gears to slow and come to a complete stop. That puts a lot of wear and tear on the clutch. I'd rather replace the cheap brake pads than the clutch. Plus downshifting thru all the gears is a hassle. The pros of doing so don't outweigh the cons, imo.

Any stories of anybody got caught coasting in neutral? Coasting in neutral is bad depending on the situation, I do agree. But how are they supposed to enforce that rule? How can they prove it if they're going to charge you for it?
 
Originally posted by: Injury
I don't drive a manual, and I'll admit I'm a car n00b, but I don't understand why people wouldn't use their brakes just as they would in an automatic (slow and gradual stopping), as opposed to forcing the transmission to do the work... THAT'S WHAT BRAKES ARE FOR... not only that, but destroying/wearing out the brakes can cost 200-400 dollars, while a transmission costs a hell of a lot more, AFAIK.
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As long as you heel-and-toe when downshifting, it's not hard on your clutch at all. And your transmission is made to spin, which is all it's doing if you take your foot off the gas to slow down.

Engine braking is fine - clutch braking is what causes damage😉

Oh - and second (or third or whatever) to hating cars that aren't well-suited to heel and toe.
 
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Vic
In that scenario (my car is a 5spd), I would shift down to 4th at about 55-50, and into 3rd at about 40-35, and then ride 3rd down to about 20.
Click to expand...
those are some pretty high RPMs....

I usually leave it in gear and brake down to ~30mph (Which is about idle in 5th gear), then revmatch and put it in third. I then brake down to idle, then push the clutch in and come to a stop. No reason to downshift through ALL the gears...
Click to expand...
Not at all. My WRX is pretty tall-geared. About 2.5-3k rpm downshifts, no big deal if probably rev-matched. That's actually the lower end of the engine's "sweet spot". It acts like it could spin in that rpm range forever.

Originally posted by: Injury
I don't drive a manual, and I'll admit I'm a car n00b, but I don't understand why people wouldn't use their brakes just as they would in an automatic (slow and gradual stopping), as opposed to forcing the transmission to do the work... THAT'S WHAT BRAKES ARE FOR... not only that, but destroying/wearing out the brakes can cost 200-400 dollars, while a transmission costs a hell of a lot more, AFAIK.
Click to expand...
You may not realize it, but your auto trans downshifts while you brake. IMO ideal street driving for a manual is to make it drive just like an auto.

Properly done, downshifting is no more harmful for your transmission and clutch than upshifting.
 
Originally posted by: Vic IMO ideal street driving for a manual is to make it drive just like an auto.
Click to expand...

WEll said. I know both people who crank that shifter like it is an egg beater, while others lag behind.


Smoothness is the key.
 
"Automotive experts" say that downshifting is generally pointless and just leads to clutch wear. This is on many sites including straightdope.com.

I'm with Vic and Perknose though. Brakes + engine braking is the way I drive. I don't live in a area thats flat with perfect weather so I tend to believe I have other reasons for keeping my car in gear.
When driving in a hilly or mountainous area I prefer to keep my car in gear when slowing down in order to keep the car under better control. The same goes for adverse weather conditions, mostly snow and ice. Even with the advent of anti-lock brakes I still don't feel safe stopping my car while in neutral on snow or ice.

I really wouldn't worry about killing the clutch unless you drive like a moron. It could be feasable that the money you "save" by extended clutch life could off set by decreased brake life.
 
Originally posted by: SampSon
"Automotive experts" say that downshifting is generally pointless and just leads to clutch wear. This is on many sites including straightdope.com.

I'm with Vic and Perknose though. Brakes + engine braking is the way I drive. I don't live in a area thats flat with perfect weather so I tend to believe I have other reasons for keeping my car in gear.
When driving in a hilly or mountainous area I prefer to keep my car in gear when slowing down in order to keep the car under better control. The same goes for adverse weather conditions, mostly snow and ice. Even with the advent of anti-lock brakes I still don't feel safe stopping my car while in neutral on snow or ice.

I really wouldn't worry about killing the clutch unless you drive like a moron. It could be feasable that the money you "save" by extended clutch life could off set by decreased brake life.
Click to expand...

That is why I don;t trust my brakes as much as I trust my engine. My car, on a rainy day, will slid , no t hyroplane mind you, if I ever use significant break pressure, and we aren;t even talking of 50% of totally "slamming" on the breaks. My breaks are jsut setup to apply a lot of pressure over a narow band, so I can depress it by about 75% with little to no effect, and then it comes almost all within two inces of depression🙁

Mind you it will skid, even on dry days, at anything higher than 35mph if I just hit it without thinking about it or in an emergency procedure if Iam not paying attention...yet somehow I can navigate treacherous roads thatwould have me skidding within 2 minutes...all thanks to engine braking.

It is really relative. On the one hand you have econoboxes with cheesy breaks that can achieve great strides in slowing down quickly by expending the momentum throught the engine. In addition, engine braking allows you to steer 100% normally and sometimes even better due to the lack of rotational acceleration when turning. Of course, if you have good 4wheel abs and BIG callipers, you can still work wonders while controllign the vehicles.

If anything, I use enginebraking for prevention, and unfortuantely, this is a amandatory requirement EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY that I am on the road. Jsut today I was almost in half a doze naccidents which is usal. Be it someone who jumps out in front of me, someone infront of me who chooses to slam their brakes at the last minute on roads so narrow that I cannot see around them, or some SUV that does whatever it pleases becuase it doesn;t know that I am there.

In the end, I find that both are usually equally importance for prctical driving. Shifting from 5th to third when traffic GRINDS to a halt from something lile 60mph is VERY important as it will allow me to quickly slow down and provide the blanace i need to quick acceleration or collision avoidance. Braking on the other hand, can be crucial in bumper to bumper traffic, when I need to slow down as fast as possible from 35mph or slower.

To say that one or the other is better is not the way to go. Cars have brakes, and can indeed engine brake for a reason. Even so, on my way to school, I engine brake far more than I jjust brake..but then again, I have to out of necessity due to the demanding terrain, not the "coolness" factor ...


even so, ther is somethign to be said about daily comign up to a turn at 50mph, shifting to third, braking hard of both types to bend a 30degree corner, and shifting into second to make it up a 45degree+ hill..all in a span of 4 seconds ....

...now THAT is cool. ..😎
 
I shift but usually only down to 3rd. By the time I would need to shift to 2nd I am so close to completely stopping its pointless.
 
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