I use 2 Dell 2001FP's with a Matrox video card.
When I have my photos that I take printed they come back looking almost exactly like they do on my monitor. And I never have them color-correct the images as I do that all myself.
My sister got an iBook and shes in the art world, it was because the art people she worked for/with are apple zealots and they couldn't comprehend the fact that a PC can do the same job as a mac equally or better. I've never encountered a mac that was faster than any PC I owned while costing less.
Yeah and the Macs that I had to use in college for some design classes were always having problems, crashing and generally not working very good. Meh...suppose it could have been because there were a bunch of idiots using them but I dunno.
I only took a few graphics design courses for fun - it isn't part of my degree. But I've been using Photoshop since version 4.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
- 16
- 81
UnatcoAgent
Diamond Member
- Oct 25, 1999
- 5,462
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Don't worry, that explains everything.
Really, the problem is not Mac vs PC, but OSX vs Windows.
It's not simply about the processing power or the technical abilities, it's about the user experience and streamlining, neither of which have been thought of at all with Windows.
If I could run Tiger on my PC, well, I would do it in a split second. I love my PC, but windows is the absolute worst when it comes to any sort of project, let alone 'design' or not.
Why does that explain everything?
The last macs that I used were pieces of freezing, error screening crap. My PC works great.
The user experience is fine. I don't have any problems with windows and I use it for many "projects" as you call them.
Explain how windows is so bad?
UnatcoAgent
Diamond Member
- Oct 25, 1999
- 5,462
- 1
- 0
I'm not going to jump into this conversation, there is no point when it's just another screaming idiot who clings to windows like it's the only answer - and it's obvious you have not even tried OSX or begin to understand what 'user experience' means.
the G5. the mac book pro is a better computer, but until Adobe and all the other big companies release versions of thier software compiled for x86, you're better off with the old G5 then with the intel with rosseta.
Cop out. As usual when I ask questions like that.
And yes I have used OSX a decent amount. I still prefer Windows.
Thanks for calling me a screaming idiot. Calling me names only makes you look stupid.
Then you start assuming that I've never used Mac's.
Good job. :roll:
I own 3 macs right now, and it's flat out faster to use Windows than OSX for virtually anything. It's not as nice or elegant, but nothing gets in your way. The only exception is some shortcuts such as the applications folder or utilities folder being able to be opened with a keyboard combination. Exposé is nice as well, and is useful for running multiple things at once, but it's simply not fast enough unless you have a monster machine. Even a $2,000+ G5 running the 30" display was choppy when using exposé. It's flat out outrageous that they couldn't come up with some method of not caching everything in the vram.
I'm sure on the Quad the advantages of OSX would probably start to become more apparent (nothing better than a core duo imac is in my house), but for a $2000 budget it's a tough sell. The best thing IMO about a mac is that you don't have to worry about the things that can *really* impede your work like spyware or a virus.
Everything does just 'work' like they claim, but after using OSX for a year (a lot of that time solely using it), I've begun to realize that Apple has a lot of work to do in order to streamline everything into a swiftly usable package. I can't even tell spotlight where to look for my files, why in the hell is that not a good idea Apple!
There are pros and cons for each platform, but IMO if you have a really good sized budget a powermac wouldn't be a bad investment. Do not waste your time with anything less though, at least not until the creative software is updated to natively run on intel.
FWIW, I absolutely prefer OSX for the general usage of a computer, but when I need to get work done I find myself sorely missing my PC, which is why I have parts coming in a couple days.
First off, I'm both a Windows and Mac user. I have an iMac G4 700MHz, but in the past I've owned the Powerbook 15" (1.33GHz, 1.67GHz), iMac G5, PowerBook 12" (867MHz), PowerMac G5 (1.6GHz), and my PC is hooked up to the Apple 30" Cinema Display. My PC is a custom-built S939-platform system. By the way, to clarify, I've OWNED all of the machines above at some point.
Expose on my 4-year old iMac G4 700MHz is far from slow. I have it set to be activated if I move my mouse to the lower-left corner, and it does so instantaneously. This is with 256MB of RAM. With my PowerBook + 30" combo, it too worked instantly. Not sure what you're talking about there.
Having worked on projects that incorporate Maya, Photoshop, and After Effects (Shake, on the Mac), I can comment on the fact that I found my project to be more streamlined and organized on the Mac. Maybe it has something to do with the Finder, maybe its the Dock; I'm not really sure what it was, but I simply found the Mac to be more enjoyable and more efficient to work on.
I'd have to say that OS X is infinitely more "streamlined" then XP is. No other suite of programs work together better then iLife, which is shipped free on every new Mac. All programs have the same "toolbar" on the top, and 99% of programs have a similar look to eachother, so it feels as if apps are a part of the operating system. Some of the most beautifully designed programs, that work great, are Mac-only. My personal favorite of these is Delicious Library. Notice how it looks like it blends into the Mac environment, and does not look like it is out of place, like many Windows apps on XP. For another program to take a look at, check out Unison.
Oh, and BTW, by clicking searching in Spotlight, and clicking on Spotlight Preferences in the bottom of the list, you can choose to opt out whatever folders/volumes from the Spotlight search.
Now, back to the OP, it all depends on the time frame you're looking at. Rumor has it (and it's most likely true) that the new PowerMacs with Conroe chips (which should be VERY fast) will be announced/released in June. Those should be able to run CS2 in Rosetta at decent enough speeds until CS3 is released, and is native to Intel. If you can't wait until June, and performance is critical, the G5 is a good bet. Apple will support PPC for a long time to come, so you shouldn't be worried about not being able to install programs in the future on OS X because of the Intel switch.
I own a machine that uses Rosetta. The performance ranges from semi-decent (in Photoshop) to horrible (Illustrator). The menu bar I completely agree with about being streamlined. With spotlight, the whole thing just seems backward... I would much rather opt-in to searching a folder or volume than opt-out of searching one, especially when I can do this faster and more easily using windows xp. (Spotlight's search speed is obviously superior, though).
WWDC got postponed until august and widespread availability of the conroe will likely follow suit a month or two later (if the duo is any indication)... this isn't really much of a difference but it is one so I thought I'd mention it. iPhoto is handy for quick graphics manipulation, but can I browse pictures on my camera, select them individually or in groups, and drag them off of it? I haven't found a way to do this yet. Also when grouping and exporting photos in iPhoto you can only select around 5 at once which is a pain in the ass, especially when there is a windows xp powertoy that does this within the explorer GUI.
As far as exposé goes, I'm mainly referring to the framerate (it's choppy). On the intel macs it's much better for some reason (even the mini with integrated graphics), but on the PowerPC systems that I've used it's been annoyingly less than fluid.
Also there is no plaintext editor included in OSX which is a major omission. I created an html file in textedit, saved it as html, and safari still screws up the render. iCal still shows Jul17 when it's closed and this has been a known issue since July 18th... there are lots of little bits that screw up Apple's goal. From what I understand the finder might be completely revamped in the next version of OSX, which would be pretty cool and could bring some big changes.
A few things to touch on about your post. First off, the majority of people using Spotlight would prefer an entire-system search. The purpose of Spotlight is to be able to find any file, anywhere, so file "organization" is no longer a priority. Oh, and just to let you know, if you Search, and press More Results, you can filter where you want Spotlight to search.
My mistake about WWDC, it is in August, but it was not post-poned. Apple announced it to be in August from the get-go. No one knows when the PowerMacs will be released, but I'd say WWDC will be a good bet. You should also see Leopard by the end of the year, with a preview at WWDC.
Regarding being able to browse pictures on your camera, this is precisely what "Image Capture" does. It's in your Applications folder. Choose the pictures there, then simply drag them to your iPhoto icon on the dock, and you're done. I've never noticed that you can only export 5 pictures at a time; are you sure this is true?
Why must it be included in OS X? I'd say a good 95% of the people don't need a plaintext editor, and there are plenty for free available for download. I refer you to this list.
I was never aware that the iCal icon was a bug, but more of an "easter egg" for something on June 17th. I highly doubt Apple would let something go like that, especially after it was used for a image on a Press Invite for product announcements.
I'm going to cut down the quote tree before it gets out of hand
Anyway, where graphic design is concerned for instance, most people would already have a specific folder for their project so searching for something that they need is trivial with windows... it isn't with osx. Spotlight will find it, but if you have a lot of things with the same name then you have to do what you said and go to the larger spotlight window and specify where to look. Granted that is not something that the average user would need to do, but it still should be there in the main window, or else there should be a shortcut for the larger spotlight window someplace (if there is one disregard that and put it towards my ignorance, heh).
I agree about iCal that it does seem like an easter egg, but it would be pretty handy to have it down there when it's not launched. I can't imagine why they wouldn't just have it save a little temp image and update the dock icon. A plaintext editor to me is like the calculator, something that should come with an OS... I am aware that there are 3rd party solutions, with Textmate leading the pack (although it costs $43).
I honestly didn't even know what image capture was, but thank GOD you told me that. iPhoto forcing me to import 300 pictures every time I needed 20 was incredibly annoying. Again, though, I don't understand why I can't just browse them like in windows explorer. To me, having to launch an application is extra work when it should be handled by the OS. Why not have an option to put your camera on the desktop like an external drive. Or heck, even opening up image capture instead of iphoto the first time that I plug in a camera, but then the average joe user might want his whole roll of film everytime. The same type of thing exists with spotlight; I should be able to choose how it prompts me for files etc instead of having an all-encompassing dumbed down search tool. It's speed does negate a lot of the interface problems though.
Add on features like the dashboard (fantastic after they patched it to include the manager) and exposé are what separates OSX from windows. I can't wait to see what else they're going to include in 10.5
Originally posted by: remagavon
I'm going to cut down the quote tree before it gets out of hand
Anyway, where graphic design is concerned for instance, most people would already have a specific folder for their project so searching for something that they need is trivial with windows... it isn't with osx. Spotlight will find it, but if you have a lot of things with the same name then you have to do what you said and go to the larger spotlight window and specify where to look. Granted that is not something that the average user would need to do, but it still should be there in the main window, or else there should be a shortcut for the larger spotlight window someplace (if there is one disregard that and put it towards my ignorance, heh).
I agree about iCal that it does seem like an easter egg, but it would be pretty handy to have it down there when it's not launched. I can't imagine why they wouldn't just have it save a little temp image and update the dock icon. A plaintext editor to me is like the calculator, something that should come with an OS... I am aware that there are 3rd party solutions, with Textmate leading the pack (although it costs $43).
I honestly didn't even know what image capture was, but thank GOD you told me that. iPhoto forcing me to import 300 pictures every time I needed 20 was incredibly annoying. Again, though, I don't understand why I can't just browse them like in windows explorer. To me, having to launch an application is extra work when it should be handled by the OS. Why not have an option to put your camera on the desktop like an external drive. Or heck, even opening up image capture instead of iphoto the first time that I plug in a camera, but then the average joe user might want his whole roll of film everytime. The same type of thing exists with spotlight; I should be able to choose how it prompts me for files etc instead of having an all-encompassing dumbed down search tool. It's speed does negate a lot of the interface problems though.
Add on features like the dashboard (fantastic after they patched it to include the manager) and exposé are what separates OSX from windows. I can't wait to see what else they're going to include in 10.5
Well, regarding the searches, Smart Folders sounds like what you want. I'm sure you know all about them though, and if you don't, here is a link (I'm a little tired of typing
). Yeah, I didn't know about Image Capture until a few months ago, and I agree, it would be nice to able to look at the pictures a la Explorer. Most cameras do let you do something like this (using Preview), as OS X sees the camera as another drive, but I know some camera's don't do this. I know for a fact that my D70 does.
I can't even imagine what they'll do with 10.5. Apple always surprises me, and although 10.4 was a bit of a let-down features-wise (nothing really new brought to the table), Expose in 10.3 was revolutionary, and I can't imagine computing these days without it. Hopefully 10.5 will bring something to the table that'll again make me go "Why didn't I think of that!?"
Originally posted by: remagavon
I'm going to cut down the quote tree before it gets out of hand
Anyway, where graphic design is concerned for instance, most people would already have a specific folder for their project so searching for something that they need is trivial with windows... it isn't with osx. Spotlight will find it, but if you have a lot of things with the same name then you have to do what you said and go to the larger spotlight window and specify where to look. Granted that is not something that the average user would need to do, but it still should be there in the main window, or else there should be a shortcut for the larger spotlight window someplace (if there is one disregard that and put it towards my ignorance, heh).
I agree about iCal that it does seem like an easter egg, but it would be pretty handy to have it down there when it's not launched. I can't imagine why they wouldn't just have it save a little temp image and update the dock icon. A plaintext editor to me is like the calculator, something that should come with an OS... I am aware that there are 3rd party solutions, with Textmate leading the pack (although it costs $43).
I honestly didn't even know what image capture was, but thank GOD you told me that. iPhoto forcing me to import 300 pictures every time I needed 20 was incredibly annoying. Again, though, I don't understand why I can't just browse them like in windows explorer. To me, having to launch an application is extra work when it should be handled by the OS. Why not have an option to put your camera on the desktop like an external drive. Or heck, even opening up image capture instead of iphoto the first time that I plug in a camera, but then the average joe user might want his whole roll of film everytime. The same type of thing exists with spotlight; I should be able to choose how it prompts me for files etc instead of having an all-encompassing dumbed down search tool. It's speed does negate a lot of the interface problems though.
Add on features like the dashboard (fantastic after they patched it to include the manager) and exposé are what separates OSX from windows. I can't wait to see what else they're going to include in 10.5
You can set Image Capture to open when you attach a camera instead of iPhoto, or if you use a card reader (they are faster than through the camera) it will show up as a drive. Apple probably figures that most people who are attaching cameras to their computers are looking for the simplest way to copy the images over, hence the lack of options.
As far as plaintext editors go, I believe TextEdit will do it if you go into the Preferences and enable the option to ignore rich text markings. I've always just used emacs or vi, both come with OSX, but that depends on how comfortable you feel about using the Terminal.
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: remagavon
I'm going to cut down the quote tree before it gets out of hand
Anyway, where graphic design is concerned for instance, most people would already have a specific folder for their project so searching for something that they need is trivial with windows... it isn't with osx. Spotlight will find it, but if you have a lot of things with the same name then you have to do what you said and go to the larger spotlight window and specify where to look. Granted that is not something that the average user would need to do, but it still should be there in the main window, or else there should be a shortcut for the larger spotlight window someplace (if there is one disregard that and put it towards my ignorance, heh).
I agree about iCal that it does seem like an easter egg, but it would be pretty handy to have it down there when it's not launched. I can't imagine why they wouldn't just have it save a little temp image and update the dock icon. A plaintext editor to me is like the calculator, something that should come with an OS... I am aware that there are 3rd party solutions, with Textmate leading the pack (although it costs $43).
I honestly didn't even know what image capture was, but thank GOD you told me that. iPhoto forcing me to import 300 pictures every time I needed 20 was incredibly annoying. Again, though, I don't understand why I can't just browse them like in windows explorer. To me, having to launch an application is extra work when it should be handled by the OS. Why not have an option to put your camera on the desktop like an external drive. Or heck, even opening up image capture instead of iphoto the first time that I plug in a camera, but then the average joe user might want his whole roll of film everytime. The same type of thing exists with spotlight; I should be able to choose how it prompts me for files etc instead of having an all-encompassing dumbed down search tool. It's speed does negate a lot of the interface problems though.
Add on features like the dashboard (fantastic after they patched it to include the manager) and exposé are what separates OSX from windows. I can't wait to see what else they're going to include in 10.5
You can set Image Capture to open when you attach a camera instead of iPhoto, or if you use a card reader (they are faster than through the camera) it will show up as a drive. Apple probably figures that most people who are attaching cameras to their computers are looking for the simplest way to copy the images over, hence the lack of options.
As far as plaintext editors go, I believe TextEdit will do it if you go into the Preferences and enable the option to ignore rich text markings. I've always just used emacs or vi, both come with OSX, but that depends on how comfortable you feel about using the Terminal.
Thanks for the info
:thumbsup:right now, the graphics designer tells me she will use:
Adobe CS1
Macromedia Studio
Quark Express
Entourage
does anyone know if quark will run like crap as well? They seem to use that program a lot.
right now I'm leaning towards the G5, but if more native apps are coming out later this year, the intel solution will be blazing fast once the native apps start coming out.
we can't wait for the intel desktops because they need to replace that G4 now. it's acting up funny and I've been itching to play with that new macbook pro
you know us IT folks...we like to play with new toys
also to bump up the specs to make sure it runs a little faster....I changed the specs to look like this for the macbook:
2GHz core duo
2GB 667 DDR2
100GB SATA 7200rpm
Applecare 3 yr warranty
$3,248
what do you guys think will it be fast enough to keep the apps running fast until native comes out?
Adobe CS1
Macromedia Studio
Quark Express
Entourage
does anyone know if quark will run like crap as well? They seem to use that program a lot.
right now I'm leaning towards the G5, but if more native apps are coming out later this year, the intel solution will be blazing fast once the native apps start coming out.
we can't wait for the intel desktops because they need to replace that G4 now. it's acting up funny and I've been itching to play with that new macbook pro
you know us IT folks...we like to play with new toys
also to bump up the specs to make sure it runs a little faster....I changed the specs to look like this for the macbook:
2GHz core duo
2GB 667 DDR2
100GB SATA 7200rpm
Applecare 3 yr warranty
$3,248
what do you guys think will it be fast enough to keep the apps running fast until native comes out?
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