POLL: Is Kwanzaa a real holiday?

[MacBaine]

Simple enough - do you think Kwanzaa should be considered a real holiday?

Edit: Just a little background info on the 'holiday' (Yes, this thread is biased!)

Founded on December 26, 1966 by Ron Karenga.

The founder of Kwanzaa, Ron Everett, a.k.a. Maulana Ron Karenga, stood at the forefront of the black power movement in the 1960s.

...detailed in The Quotable Karenga, authored by Karenga himself. "The sevenfold path of blackness is think black, talk black,
act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black," the book states.

On September 17, 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.

At his trial, the question of Karenga's sanity arose. The psychiatrist's report stated, "This man now represents a picture which can be considered both paranoid and schizophrenic with hallucinations and elusions, inappropriate affect, disorganization, and impaired contact with the environment." The psychiatrist observed that Karenga talked to his blanket and imaginary persons and believed that he had been attacked by dive-bombers.

The holiday "was chosen to give a Black alternative to the existing holiday..."

Now I'm not racist by far, but I just refuse to believe in a 'holiday' founded by some 60's radical who's intent seems to have been to seperate blacks and whites even more.

Anybody here actually celebrate Kwanzaa? I would be interested in hearing your opinions.

---

Locked at member's request.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[Colt45]

pfft. bunch of phonies trying to jack boxing day.

 

[Electrode]

It's as real as Patriot Day.

 

[tbates757]

Why isn't there an emphatic HELL NO! option?

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: tbates757
Why isn't there an emphatic HELL NO! option?

Added

 

[stormbv]

lol...it's not real because it doesn't conform? Christmas really shouldn't be a real holiday either then...after the Christians wiped out all of the pagan religions they incorporated Dec. 25th into their dogma as Christ's birthday. It was originally a day to celebrate the Sun God, or whatever.

Christmas is all about unbridled greed and acting like it's a holiday that actually has a meaning other than economical. Can't beat that! :beer:

 

[ViperV990]

"Kwanzaa" sounds as much like a real holiday as "Merry Jew Christmas"...

 

[0roo0roo]

festivus is more real the kwanza. its not racist to boot.

 

[jpeyton]

As real as the sham we call commercialized Christmas.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
As real as the sham we call commercialized Christmas.

How is Christmas a sham? We all know it's commercialized, and that's the way we like it. Christmas wasn't made up in the 60's by civil rights radicals AFAIK.

 

[Sid59]

pfft of course it's a holiday. i don't see why it isn't.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: stormbv
lol...it's not real because it doesn't conform? Christmas really shouldn't be a real holiday either then...after the Christians wiped out all of the pagan religions they incorporated Dec. 25th into their dogma as Christ's birthday. It was originally a day to celebrate the Sun God, or whatever.

Christmas is all about unbridled greed and acting like it's a holiday that actually has a meaning other than economical. Can't beat that! :beer:

lol...it's not real because it doesn't conform?

No, it's not a holiday because it's bullsh!t, along with the man who invented it.

Christmas really shouldn't be a real holiday either then

Christmas has been a holiday for hundreds of years in various practice. It's a combination of many cultural practices, customs, and ideas. It's been commercialized in modern times, but nonetheless it still holds with it these customs and traditions which have been built upon for centuries.

Kwanzaa was made up by a 60's radical to give black people something to seperate them further from white people.

Christmas is all about unbridled greed and acting like it's a holiday that actually has a meaning other than economical

Maybe to you, but there are still people who celebrate Christmas the way it should be... bringing family together and having good times. And hey... people like getting presents, people like giving presents. What's wrong with that?

 

[jonmcc33]

No, it is not.

I can't believe my 6 year old nephew (who is white) was forced to celebrate that in school this year. I have nothing against black people but IMO 90% of the black people in the United States know nothing about Africa or it's history.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: Sid59
pfft of course it's a holiday. i don't see why it isn't.

So any 60's radical felon can make a holiday loosely based on cultural history and heavily based on segregation and it is legit?

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33
No, it is not.

I can't believe my 6 year old nephew (who is white) was forced to celebrate that in school this year. I have nothing against black people but IMO 90% of the black people in the United States know nothing about Africa or it's history.

I am all for teaching kids tolerance of other cultures, but not forcing them to celebrate foney holidays.

 

[illustri]

mac, i think the contention with christmas is because even though it was established well before kwanzaa, but if you'll notice it shares much of the same kind of origin as kwanzaa...
the holiday actually celebrated around dec 25th was pagan in the beginning, then the christian church wanting to incorporate as much of the customs of the peoples took it over by announcing the celebration of the nativity on that date -- it was a response to some already established custom in order to bring together a people to a common practice because the church didnt like the pagan practices and celebration

kwanzaa was probably ALSO a response to the already established christmas to bring together blacks because OBVIOUSLY this guy didnt like the christmas customs, as the black power movement was probably practicing ISLAM it wouldnt make sense to celebrate a christian holiday

my point is regardless of the relative age of this holiday it came from the same "background" as much of our accepted holidays

... but actually i dont think kwanzaa's a real holiday -- im also "biased"

 

[Conky]

It's a manufactured holiday and there is no question of that.

It is sad that people always want to bring race into things. Christmas is for everybody, people of all races... even non-Christians if they care to embrace the spirit.

 

[Excelsior]

Ok..who voted yes.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: illustri
mac, i think the contention with christmas is because even though it was established well before kwanzaa, but if you'll notice it shares much of the same kind of origin as kwanzaa...
the holiday actually celebrated around dec 25th was pagan in the beginning, then the christian church wanting to incorporate as much of the customs of the peoples took it over by announcing the celebration of the nativity on that date -- it was a response to some already established custom in order to bring together a people to a common practice because the church didnt like the pagan practices and celebration

kwanzaa was probably ALSO a response to the already established christmas to bring together blacks because OBVIOUSLY this guy didnt like the christmas customs, as the black power movement was probably practicing ISLAM it wouldnt make sense to celebrate a christian holiday

my point is regardless of the relative age of this holiday it came from the same "background" as much of our accepted holidays

... but actually i dont think kwanzaa's a real holiday -- im also "biased"

I'm well aware of the various origins/customs of Christmas, and your point is well taken how Kwanzaa could be seen to have come from thsi same type of background... but the motives for the two holidays are quite different IMO.

Christmas was celebrated, like you said, well before it was called Christmas. When Christianity was introduced, the holiday was infused with these new beliefs in order to spread the religion and whatnot (other reasons as well along those lines).

Kwanzaa was invented as an 'alternative' holiday for black people to celebrate exclusively, lending to the idea that it was more rooted in hatred and segregation than anything else.

Christmas has come to be less of a Christian holiday, and more of a general holiday which everyone can participate in without having to believe in anything. It has deep roots in many cultures and religions, and for the most part is 'genuine'. The commercialization of Christmas is simply an inevitable reaction to the customs established as well as the popularity of the holiday. The commercialization itself has become somewhat of an element of Christmas... not to say that this is a bad thing...

All in all, I maintain my position that Kwanzaa was invented by a disturbed, 60's, black-power radical who felt that blacks must be completely segregated from all things white.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Ok..who voted yes.

Some people have been brave enough to state their position...

I would really like to hear why people think it should be considered a real holiday. I may sound completely biased, but so far I haven't heard any good arguments for it.

 

[Sid59]

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Originally posted by: Sid59
pfft of course it's a holiday. i don't see why it isn't.

So any 60's radical felon can make a holiday loosely based on cultural history and heavily based on segregation and it is legit?

that's the extent of Kwanza you know of?

im forgetting this segregration stuff. Who wanted seperate but equal? ahhh the radical 60's felon?

why can't they take something African and adapt it in positive matters?

you even said ..

"Maybe to you, but there are still people who celebrate Christmas the way it should be... bringing family together and having good times. And hey... people like getting presents, people like giving presents. What's wrong with that?" -- now lets replace it with Kwanza. Whats the matter with that?

Why can't kwanza bring together family and have good times?


Kwanza is older than 1960s its a word from a native language. So he took the word and made it positive.

You're associated the man with negativity and hence the whole celebration of it.

Originally posted by: jonmcc33
No, it is not.

I can't believe my 6 year old nephew (who is white) was forced to celebrate that in school this year. I have nothing against black people but IMO 90% of the black people in the United States know nothing about Africa or it's history.

that's because schools aren't mandated to teach History of other countries. There isn't any standards to do so.

Do you think 90% of American Born Latinos know the history and ways of Mexico or heritage? but still celebrate Dia de Los Muertos
Do you think 90% of Irish Americans know aobut Ireland and it's heritage? but still celebrate St. Patricks Day

your arguement is weak.

You didn't specify FORCE. Did he wear ethnic clothes and learn about it? Did he get parental permission not to learn about it but they forced him. Kids are 'forced' learn about Thanksgiving. Some schools dress them in Pilgrim and Native American clothes. Is that forced?

Where is the line you wanna draw? IMO, the parents of your nephew should be more active in the activities at school and learn what's going on. If they don't want their son to learn about other ethnicities or 'forced' celebration, they should let the teachers know.

 

[illustri]

well you said it yourself in quote that it was chosen as an "alternative" to celebrating christmas and for that case I have nothing against people celebrating it as a holiday

furthermore I don't particularily know of its exclusivity in that I dont know how or why anyone would prevent non-blacks from celebrating it if they wanted to -- it just turned out that you celebrate ramadan as a muslim, chunakkah (SP?) when youre jewish, and christmas whenever you're in a predominantly white culture because really theres no escaping it

before long 1960's will be a hundred years ago, would you be more accepting of it then btw?

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: Sid59

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Originally posted by: Sid59
pfft of course it's a holiday. i don't see why it isn't.

So any 60's radical felon can make a holiday loosely based on cultural history and heavily based on segregation and it is legit?

that's the extent of Kwanza you know of?

im forgetting this segregration stuff. Who wanted seperate but equal? ahhh the radical 60's felon?

Most people of his type in the day propogated the idea that blacks should be completely self sufficient, and should shut out white culture as much as they can. See the quote from my original post, in which the founder of Kwanzaa stated in his own book, that blacks should "think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black,". The is segregation of a different kind. It is not forcing somebody of another race to remain seperate from your own race, but encouraging members of your own race to stay seperated.

why can't they take something African and adapt it in positive matters?

The culture upon which is it based is simply a means of justifying racial isolation. While today, the holiday is passed off as more 'everyone friendly' and non-segregational, the ideas and motives upon which it was created will forever taint it.

you even said ..

"Maybe to you, but there are still people who celebrate Christmas the way it should be... bringing family together and having good times. And hey... people like getting presents, people like giving presents. What's wrong with that?" -- now lets replace it with Kwanza. Whats the matter with that?

The matter with that is for the reasons I have stated thus far. It was established with the intention of providing a holiday to seperate blacks from whites. Christmas has never had such intentions, and is meant as a time for everybody to enjoy the season. Christmas is completely race-free, while Kwanzaa is exclusively black

Originally posted by: jonmcc33
No, it is not.

I can't believe my 6 year old nephew (who is white) was forced to celebrate that in school this year. I have nothing against black people but IMO 90% of the black people in the United States know nothing about Africa or it's history.

that's because schools aren't mandated to teach History of other countries. There isn't any standards to do so.

Do you think 90% of American Born Latinos know the history and ways of Mexico or heritage? but still celebrate Dia de Los Muertos
Do you think 90% of Irish Americans know aobut Ireland and it's heritage? but still celebrate St. Patricks Day

your aruguement is weak.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: illustri
well you said it yourself in quote that it was chosen as an "alternative" to celebrating christmas and for that case I have nothing against people celebrating it as a holiday

My point was that is was created based on segregation, hatred, and racism... solely to give black people something to seperate them from white people

furthermore I don't particularily know of its exclusivity in that I dont know how or why anyone would prevent non-blacks from celebrating it if they wanted to -- it just turned out that you celebrate ramadan as a muslim, chunakkah (SP?) when youre jewish, and christmas whenever you're in a predominantly white culture because really theres no escaping it

While Kwanzaa tries to be passed off nowadays as a holiday which anybody can celebrate, it is simply not the case realistically. It was created with the intention of being exclusively black. It is very hard (if not impossible) to take a holiday like this which so blatantly African based and saying that anybody can celebrate it, especially in our society. It isn't like a religion you can convert to... it is supposed to be a celebration of black culture.

before long 1960's will be a hundred years ago, would you be more accepting of it then btw?

I'm sure by then, the story of Kwanzaa will be as heavily diluted and misconstrued as the settling of America is now

 

[sandorski]

If people celebrate it, then it is a Holiday. Perhaps it isn't a sanctioned Holiday, but that will change if people continue to celebrate it and if it becomes popular enough.