Poll: Is grading comparatively ethical?

[Dedpuhl]

I completely forgot about this thread....so it's time to respond...

Gibson486

<<..Every report and essay you do SHOULD be typed..>>

says who...If I were writing a paper for a company, yes. If I am writing for a grade in a class where typing is specifically not required, no...

<<..Syllabus are vague guidelines. It is understood that you should type...>>

What f##cking school do you go to? The syllabus is not a vague guideline. If there is variation in the syllabus, the professor is to inform all students involved. This is true, ESPECIALLY in core-requisites (basic classes such as college algebra, english, etc). If there is a variation that swerves from the syllabus, you can go to the dean or department head. If the professor states that a test counts for 20% of your grade in the syllabus, he cannot go and say it will count 30%(all of my syllabi regarding reweighting grades deal with the final...only if it helps you).

<<..Wait till you go to college, they will not even accept a hand written paper and the guidlines are even more vague. ..>>

I am in my 4th year of college. I have had professors that are VERY strict, yet they allow hand written papers/exams. The syllabi in college are are not simply vague guidelines.

TuffGuy

<<<...pretty common knowledge that you should type up your reports...>>


WTF!! HOW many damn times do I have to repeat that there was a freakin option? I am in my 4th year of college. I can read. EVERY DAMN class I have ever taken, I have typed reports...UNLESS the teacher says we do not have to.

Since you don't seem to have a clue what a syllabus is, here is the definition from Merriam-Webster's dictionary:

a summary outline of a discourse, treatise, or course of study or of examination requirements

In other words, these are the summarized rules of the course. Do I need to post a picture of the actual syllabus where it says handwritten for you so you can understand? I can even use crayons and underline the statement for you to make it easier on you...



<<..but it sounds like the report was done at the last second..>>

For your information, Mr. TUFFGUY, I do almost all of my assignments as soon as they are assigned to avoid &quot;last minute&quot; situations. I work full time graveyards. I go to school full time. I do all my homework at work. I have no access to computers at work. Since the &quot;syllabus&quot; said I could do the paper by hand, I chose that option. It doesn't mean I am lazy.

<<..actually, it might be a fair grade. if the syllabus says 'typed or handwritten', then the average person would handwrite it. which is a 'c'. a 'b' is above average, and an 'a' is superior. and he got a 'b' while everybody else that handwrote it got an 'a'..>>

NO. I followed ALL of the guidelines to a T. I had NO bad marks and NO corrections. I saw other papers that were typed that lacked the depth I went into. The prof even had comments such as &quot;good&quot; and &quot;excellent&quot; on my pages. His ONLY reason why I made a lower grade was b/c of it being handwritten. My research, execution of the project, and completion of the project was perfect...I followed his rules and got stung...

Mday

Grade curving and grading comparatively are two separate entities. Curving is used to benefit the entire class. It, however, will not benefit if 10 students make &quot;A's&quot; and 20 make &quot;D's.&quot; If 5 people make &quot;B's&quot;, 10 make &quot;C's&quot;, and the rest make &quot;D's,&quot; then everyone's grade can increased compared to the highest &quot;B&quot; in the class.

Comparative grading does something else. The professor determines your grade by comparing the reports AGAINST each other. In the above example for curving, all grades have been assigned...THEN the professor can choose to raise the grade, not lower it, BASED on the other grades in the class. In grading comparatively, the professor says &quot;this student's report is OUTSTANDING but this students is GREAT. So I'll give one an A and one a B.&quot; The problem is that if the OUSTANDING paper was NOT there, then an A would be given to the other paper. That is comparative grading.


It seems as though skoorb is the only one who understands what the deal is...

 

[cxim]

The prof needs a pair of used T-back panties, black, in his car, passenger side seat.

 

[TSDible]

I have taught on the secondary and college levels. Let me just say....

Welcome to the real world. Everything in life is graded comparitively. Whether or not it is for a &quot;grade&quot; is irrelevent.

Did you know that papers would be graded comparitively going in to the assignment? If so, then you have no reason to complain. Sometimes things that are allowed are actually frowned upon. We are allowed to wear casual clothes to teach on fridays in my district, but you will get further if you don't.

If you did not know about the grading going in to the assignment, count it as a learning experience. If you are as good as you proclaim in doing your research and writing, next time you will make an A no problem.

 

[Dedpuhl]

There was no indication that the professor would base our grades off of one another's work. My other papers were close to the top of the class..this one just bugs me...

 

[StageLeft]

TSDible Ah yet another person who says &quot;life is not fair&quot; and doesn't care to change it. Obviously people look at people's grades and judge that person comparitively. If everyone in dedphul's class gets an A and he gets a D then it is up to somebody to judge him if they want to. It is not up to the teacher to do this comparitive judging when he grades.

If you start subjectively and at a whim deciding student's grades because of your mood then you need to re-evaluate how you are grading them. It is unfair, do not excuse it as unfair and say life is unfair.

The point is dedphul DID know about the grading going in - he had a syllabus. The professor merely decided to change the rules on a whim. You admit to being a teacher and you condone this? I find that disturbing. Do you know how many times I've been fvcked out of good grades because my older brother never did well? Teachers are not infallible, but when they stop even trying to be fair well that breeds resentment.

Dedphul's professor pulled this because of a lack of respect for his students. As I mentioned earlier what if next time dedphul submits an assignment somebody else prints theirs up on gold leaf? Is dedphul to be given a B because he should also have submitted his on gold leaf? What if he is given 2 weeks to submit something and everybody else hands theirs in after a day. Should he be penalized for following the rules again and given a B because &quot;everybody else did blah blah&quot;? No. A good teacher lays out the ground rules and if they are followed gives a perfect grade. Once you start doing what this prof has done to dedphul it is then absolutely impossible for a student to know how they will do on something because somebody else might &quot;one-up&quot; them. WHen you're looking for a job thats how it goes; when you're in school getting grades it should not go like this.

 

[TSDible]

FYI...
Skoorb

I never said that &quot;I&quot; would do this. I tell my students (teaching High School now) that typed papers will get better grades even though they are permitted to write their assignments (I don't put it in my syllabus, but students learn it quicly enough). It doesn't matter how much time you spend researching and writing if it is difficult to read. Even if you have the best handwriting there is, it is still easier and more pleasant to read if it is typed.

I was asking if he had known about the &quot;comparative grading&quot; going in to the assignment. If he did, he has no grounds to complain. Perhaps the professor is trying to teach more than just how to get a good grade. Good teachers do that from time to time.

And we are not talking about a D here.... I believe he said that he got a B instead of an A on the paper.

This professor is not judging the student... he is judging the work. And he is comparing it to the work of other students. In that I can find no fault. Especially if he Dedpuhul knew that it would be graded comparatively.

I admit that sometimes teachers can be boneheaded about stuff like this. Not every procedure can be written.

<rant>
People in my profession are constantly getting bi*ched at to prepare the younger generations for the real world. Teach them how to work together, how to problem solve etc. But the first time we give them a &quot;real world&quot; problem, we get slammed. I see it all the time.

The fact of the matter is... people who work together get graded together. That is how it works in the real world. You can hand write a memo in the corporate world... I have worked for companies where it is accepted. But if you want someone to take you serious, you type it. If you give a presentation, you make damn sure that it is the best presentation that you give... you don't just use overheads... you use powerpoint, you don't just speak.... you inspire. That is how you get ahead in the &quot;real world.&quot;

Why should school be any different?

</rant>

Everyone wants our education system to prepare students for what they will encounter... except for when it hurts them.

 

[Static911]

i got robbed in my international economics class cuz of comapraitve grading....

Damn european teachers....

I WANT AN ABSOLUTE SYSTEM...

I figure in life, especially when getting a job, employers don't hire base on a group of canidates and hiring one, but the employer has a standard which the canidates needs to meet or else no one is hired.

Static911

 

[StageLeft]

This professor is not judging the student... he is judging the work. And he is comparing it to the work of other students. In that I can find no fault. Especially if he Dedpuhul knew that it would be graded comparatively. I agree with what you say - except in this specific case he was told specificially he can write it. Unless his handwriting is actually poor and hard to read given that it was a viable option I find it wrong for the prof to comparitively grade on this aspect. Perhaps the prof is unaware that he told people they could write, and so he was grading comparitively and in this case should not have? His &quot;write or type&quot; allowance basically omits him from allowing to grade comparitively in this area IMO.

I agree with the rest of your post as well, the only problem is that in this particular example the prof was grading comparitively on something he expressely said he would not grade comparitively on (I consider the type-or-write allowance to mean that he cannot grade comparitively). On other issues ok there is an argument for it but on this one I would like to hear what the prof has to say and how he penalized somebody for staying within guidelines.

 

[TSDible]

Skoorb

You make excellent arguments as well. (Part of the reason why I love coming to these forums). As a teacher, I can look on it from another view as well...

Perhaps Dedpuhl is an excellent researcher and writer. Perhaps the professor sees this. However, perhaps the professor also sees that Dedpuhl is not meeting his potential by simply hand writing the paper. Yes, writing was permitted, but did he really take that last step to make it an excellent paper? He could be using this one assignment as a lesson.

Just to let you know, I probably wouldn't have graded down if it truely was an excellent paper. I would have had a conference with the student however to tell them I think they can do better. But... sometimes... when you try to have that conference with a student and they already have an A, it is a mute point. They student often thinks... Yeah... I could do better, but why should I? I got an A.

 

[Dedpuhl]

I asked him and he said &quot;You did not type....the others did&quot;

btw, he is an OLD civil engineering professor from India

 

[StageLeft]

This is true...

I do know that if I was Dedphul and told I could write or type, then I get screwed for writing it would bug me an awful lot. I think that for a student to have faith and trust in their teacher they have to know that the teacher won't &quot;rip them off&quot;.

In someways its part of the bigger argument: Do you give a student a perfect grade for a perfect paper or do you read deeper into it and only give them a perfect grade on their perfect paper if they put in a perfect effort? Surely for some people writing a great paper takes an awful lot of effort, for others they can bum it out the night before and still get a great paper done. So do you mark both the same? Who knows

 

[TSDible]

And these are the &quot;real world&quot; problems that we as educators face each and every day.... *sigh*



It isn't always about the grade, but about teaching individuals.

(read: it is all about the grade)

 

[Chewy]

I'm in college right now...if I was graded comparitively, I'd go ape $hit! If you do everything that is &quot;required&quot; as stated on a syllabus, you shouldn't be downgraded. Period. I mean, say you took a test, did all problems correctly in pencil, but everyone else in the class did it in pen (you could do it in either), and you wind up getting an B or whatever because of that...is that fair? of course not...

It really depends on what your definition of &quot;graded comparitively&quot; means...

If the prof grades comparitively based on the content of the paper/test, that's fine...that's what the curve is in college...but if you grade comparitively based on the aesthetics of the paper/test, that's bull$hit...

just my 2 cents...

 

[Gibson486]

I am sorry, but if you go to college and do not type up an essay or report, it deserves to be downgraded. The point of college is to get you ready for your career...so try handing in a written resume and see if teh company calls you...

 

[Chewy]

I agree college is there to prepare you for your career and the &quot;real world,&quot; but downgrading for that stuff is just wrong...that's what comments are for...i.e. &quot;You should have typed this out, but good essay! A-&quot; This isn't an art class

I never write essays (mainly cuz I type a LOT faster) and my resume is typed...you're right that a written out resume would look like crap and probably get tossed out when looked at, but it would sure stand out!