Poll: If UFC was around when Bruce Lee was in his prime - how would he do?

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: fishjie
this thread is filled with fan boys who bought into the hype of bruce lee.

lets just be logical.

on the one hand we had royce, who we have footage of, who back in the day beat people who were bigger, fought multiple fights in one night, and owned them all with ease.

on the other hand we have someone who pretty much had 0 documented fights. street fights dont count. kimbo though he was the ****** because he beat someone in a street fight, and got destroyed by ganon who was a trained boxer, who got destroyed when he fought in ufc by some scrub.

you've gotta look at evidence and facts here. royce BEAT people. BADLY. he made them his BITCH. do you guys even know who royce is? he has an impressive fight record. bruce has none. he just has a bunch of movies. he never competed in any fighting tournaments. sparring with pads? lol. in mma, people spar full contact. no pads.

second - grappling owns striking. that is why to this day, when people who train solely in striking try to compete in ufc, they get taken down to the ground and destroyed. show me one example of some kung fu master winning in ufc. there is none.

Nope, read the thread. This was already discussed. In a real fight unless the person is fighting someone untrained, getting too close to a trained fighter will get your eye poked out, arm bitten, hair pulled, nads racks or even plucks off... the list goes on.

In a UFC fight, grappling will usually work, but against a really fast and strong fight even a tumble method to grapple liek Royce used would get him seriously hurt if a kick connected, even if it was blocked.

*******************************************************

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: aigomorla
PS. Mike Tyson's Uppercut was rumored to have the same force as bruce lee's punch incase your wondering. Id like to see royce take a uppercut from mike and still stand straight.

Let me put an end to that rumor that only people like you would spread...It's false.

And please, quit spewing crap. It's starting to stink in here.

Bruce Lee's students (Including Dan Inasaoto and Chuck Norris) reported him doing a kick on a 250-300 lb bag and knocking it into the ceiling. They couldn't even pusht he thing to the ceiling. I am sure his arm strike strength was just as strong.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: aigomorla
PS. Mike Tyson's Uppercut was rumored to have the same force as bruce lee's punch incase your wondering. Id like to see royce take a uppercut from mike and still stand straight.

Let me put an end to that rumor that only people like you would spread...It's false.

And please, quit spewing crap. It's starting to stink in here.

Bruce Lee's students (Including Dan Inasaoto and Chuck Norris) reported him doing a kick on a 250-300 lb bag and knocking it into the ceiling. They couldn't even pusht he thing to the ceiling. I am sure his arm strike strength was just as strong.

Sure he did. :roll: Bruce Lee was strong, FOR HIS SIZE. He was not super human and did not possess super human strength. He even says in the book "The Making of Enter the Dragon", when asked who would win in a fight between him and Ali. Lee was quoted as saying, "Look at his hands and look at mine. These are little Chinese hands. He would kill me." Bruce looked up to Ali for his boxing abilities and he obviously knew Ali was stronger. Now are you going to tell me Ali is stronger than Tyson? Seriously. :roll:

 

[sourceninja]

Ali might not of been stronger, but he had magic iron body training, he would of just hung his arms on the ropes and let tyson beat on him till tyson was out cold!

Seriously though, good point. Of course another to remember is the people telling storys about bruce wouldn't have any intrest in making him look good for their own careers would they? Nah....

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Greyd

Originally posted by: fishjie
this thread is filled with fan boys who bought into the hype of bruce lee.

lets just be logical.

on the one hand we had royce, who we have footage of, who back in the day beat people who were bigger, fought multiple fights in one night, and owned them all with ease.

on the other hand we have someone who pretty much had 0 documented fights. street fights dont count. kimbo though he was the ****** because he beat someone in a street fight, and got destroyed by ganon who was a trained boxer, who got destroyed when he fought in ufc by some scrub.

you've gotta look at evidence and facts here. royce BEAT people. BADLY. he made them his BITCH. do you guys even know who royce is? he has an impressive fight record. bruce has none. he just has a bunch of movies. he never competed in any fighting tournaments. sparring with pads? lol. in mma, people spar full contact. no pads.

second - grappling owns striking. that is why to this day, when people who train solely in striking try to compete in ufc, they get taken down to the ground and destroyed. show me one example of some kung fu master winning in ufc. there is none.

There's a reason royce won so well in the early days of UFC. The majority of the fighters sucked and no one had any ground skills. There is a reason why the gracies don't rule anymore nowadays. People are decent fighters now and all practice ground fighting.

The Gracies showed the power of knowing how to grapple. But to say that Royce would beat Bruce is ridiculous. Royce can't beat a current skilled fighter. To compare those fighters he beat back in the days of UFC to bruce is hilarious.

Agreed, /thread.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Sure he did. :roll: Bruce Lee was strong, FOR HIS SIZE. He was not super human and did not possess super human strength. He even says in the book "The Making of Enter the Dragon", when asked who would win in a fight between him and Ali. Lee was quoted as saying, "Look at his hands and look at mine. These are little Chinese hands. He would kill me." Bruce looked up to Ali for his boxing abilities and he obviously knew Ali was stronger. Now are you going to tell me Ali is stronger than Tyson? Seriously. :roll:

I never heard that before. It does sound like how he would analyze it. Yeah, I guess it is really an exaggeration to say his punch is that strong. His side kicks were really amazing though, but I guess those had to have some momentum, so they wouldn't be very useful in a street fight.

 

[aigomorla]

you think royce could take a 1 inch punch and not fly backwards? Because theres plenty of videos showing guys near royces size taking the 1 inch punch and getting lunged backwards :\

 

[shoRunner]

well gracie just got his butt kicked, so i wouldn't pick gracie for the fight against lee, more like hughes the guy who beat him. there have been plenty of nth degree black belts in UFC that have had their @ss handed to them, i'm sure if lee was still training he would do very well in the lightweight class, but fighting has evolved since his time, so to put him in against someone who has fought a hundred mma fights would not be fair.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
you think royce could take a 1 inch punch and not fly backwards? Because theres plenty of videos showing guys near royces size taking the 1 inch punch and getting lunged backwards :\

Moving around and fighting is very different than being stationary BTW.

If you ever practiced the 1 inch blow, the essense of it is to learn how to maximize your efficiency when punching. Nothing more.

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
you think royce could take a 1 inch punch and not fly backwards? Because theres plenty of videos showing guys near royces size taking the 1 inch punch and getting lunged backwards :\

You dont think a demo would not be setup to look good? Of course you do your best to setup the best looking demo you can. You control all the variables, stance, position, etc. You make sure it looks good. I can hold back 5 or 6 people with one arm. Its a physics trick, but I tell people I do it with my chi and it looks damn impressive. Of course if I dont tell them how to push and where to stand they will run me over. I'm not saying the one inch punch is fake, but I am saying I could setup a one inch punch that looks damn good just by positioning where a guy stands, and how he stands. It would help even better if he was my student, cause he would want to make me look good. But being my student is not nessiary. You also have the mental factor of the technique. Sometimes telling someone what you are going to do will make it true. For example, pressure point and no touch knock outs. If you can concince your students it will work, they are going down. But for some reason it never works on guys you didn't get to hype up or brainwash. So pick the right person and you can tell him what you are going to do, and subconciously he will let you do it.

I'm not saying the one inch punch isn't real. I've been hit by a few, they do hurt. Even boxers learn how to use short power. But short power is not going to send you flying 15 feet back. It hurts, but no more then any other kind of punch.

 

[madworm]

actually bruce will win. speed...before an enemy approaches...Lee would have had landed an one inch punch already...

 

[Project86]

I can't believe people are still coming in here and making completely ignorant posts (see above post), having not even read the rest of the discussion. Life is not like a video game, were you can be ready to unleash your one inch punch special move at will. A real fight doesn't go that way. Sure I know all kinds of crazy TKD kicks that look great in a demo, but I have never been able to use them in any real MMA style fights/sparring.

We have people like aigomorla spouting the usual junk about how REAL martial arts masters would be able to destroy everyone in MMA. Unfortunately we just don't know that... since it is against their honor and whatnot to compete in such events. What we DO know is that everyone who has tried in these events using only traditional martial arts skills has failed, and either they A) never return to try again or B) started cross training in MT/BJJ. Watch some of the old UFC's, and you will see various black belts throwing bombs and slugging it out like they have no training at all.

I also can't believe people here are now touting the usefullness of tradition arts in a street fight vs MMA skills. MMA evolved the way it did BECAUSE traditional stuff was not effective.

Don't tell me about how great TKD grandmasters are. I've studied it for many years, and tried using it against people.... it doesn't work. No I'm not as good as those grandmasters, but if the basics won't work for me then... what good is it?

I work for a police department. I have sparred and trained with officers, the SWAT team, and the defensive tactics coordinators. They don't use any traditional martial arts. These are people who need to be able to protect themselves daily, and frequently get the chance to put their skills to use. Guess what they use? Boxing skills, MT, BJJ, and other hybrid systems.

I'll close this by saying that I have a lot of respect for Bruce Lee. He was very fit, very dedicated to training, and very ahead of his time. What he was not though, was invincible. And we have no way of knowing how he would have faired in real fights, because we have no evidence of him participating in them.

 

[6shiw1]

Did Bruce Lee think his martial arts was too classy for competitions? I guess making money from movies where guys are scripted to get their ass kicked by him is above professional competition? I'm sure those movies symbolized the true spirit of Bruce Lee's martial arts.

BTW I bet Ben Wallace (a bajillions of other atheletes/roiders) could do whatever Bruce Lee does with his arms, and then some.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Project86
I can't believe people are still coming in here and making completely ignorant posts (see above post), having not even read the rest of the discussion. Life is not like a video game, were you can be ready to unleash your one inch punch special move at will. A real fight doesn't go that way. Sure I know all kinds of crazy TKD kicks that look great in a demo, but I have never been able to use them in any real MMA style fights/sparring.

We have people like aigomorla spouting the usual junk about how REAL martial arts masters would be able to destroy everyone in MMA. Unfortunately we just don't know that... since it is against their honor and whatnot to compete in such events. What we DO know is that everyone who has tried in these events using only traditional martial arts skills has failed, and either they A) never return to try again or B) started cross training in MT/BJJ. Watch some of the old UFC's, and you will see various black belts throwing bombs and slugging it out like they have no training at all.

I also can't believe people here are now touting the usefullness of tradition arts in a street fight vs MMA skills. MMA evolved the way it did BECAUSE traditional stuff was not effective.

Don't tell me about how great TKD grandmasters are. I've studied it for many years, and tried using it against people.... it doesn't work. No I'm not as good as those grandmasters, but if the basics won't work for me then... what good is it?

I work for a police department. I have sparred and trained with officers, the SWAT team, and the defensive tactics coordinators. They don't use any traditional martial arts. These are people who need to be able to protect themselves daily, and frequently get the chance to put their skills to use. Guess what they use? Boxing skills, MT, BJJ, and other hybrid systems.

I'll close this by saying that I have a lot of respect for Bruce Lee. He was very fit, very dedicated to training, and very ahead of his time. What he was not though, was invincible. And we have no way of knowing how he would have faired in real fights, because we have no evidence of him participating in them.

Granted, but he was one of the first to encorporate Boxing, Fencing and Kickboxing with regular Asian martial arts into his style of fighting, so if you are saying that MMA and mixed skillsets to win a self defense fight is crucial Bruce Lee would have said the same thing.

Early in his life he would say that Chinese martial arts were the best. Later on in life though, he would say that every form of martial arts has good and bad points and that you should try to learn all you could.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: aigomorla
you think royce could take a 1 inch punch and not fly backwards? Because theres plenty of videos showing guys near royces size taking the 1 inch punch and getting lunged backwards :\

You dont think a demo would not be setup to look good? Of course you do your best to setup the best looking demo you can. You control all the variables, stance, position, etc. You make sure it looks good. I can hold back 5 or 6 people with one arm. Its a physics trick, but I tell people I do it with my chi and it looks damn impressive. Of course if I dont tell them how to push and where to stand they will run me over. I'm not saying the one inch punch is fake, but I am saying I could setup a one inch punch that looks damn good just by positioning where a guy stands, and how he stands. It would help even better if he was my student, cause he would want to make me look good. But being my student is not nessiary. You also have the mental factor of the technique. Sometimes telling someone what you are going to do will make it true. For example, pressure point and no touch knock outs. If you can concince your students it will work, they are going down. But for some reason it never works on guys you didn't get to hype up or brainwash. So pick the right person and you can tell him what you are going to do, and subconciously he will let you do it.

I'm not saying the one inch punch isn't real. I've been hit by a few, they do hurt. Even boxers learn how to use short power. But short power is not going to send you flying 15 feet back. It hurts, but no more then any other kind of punch.

Yup, any punch that is done efficiently to the sternum can break bones.

**EDIT**

The idea of the one inch punch was used for tight spaces, which doesn't usually happen. It is mostly used to teach a person how to correctly use his whole body in a punch. Once they learn that, any punch will do.

Ever seen a girl punch (they throw there arms). See a trained person punch and he uses his whole body, yet can control the punch as well because he uses his body force efficiently.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: delas52

Originally posted by: fishjie
this thread is filled with fan boys who bought into the hype of bruce lee.

lets just be logical.

on the one hand we had royce, who we have footage of, who back in the day beat people who were bigger, fought multiple fights in one night, and owned them all with ease.

on the other hand we have someone who pretty much had 0 documented fights. street fights dont count. kimbo though he was the ****** because he beat someone in a street fight, and got destroyed by ganon who was a trained boxer, who got destroyed when he fought in ufc by some scrub.

you've gotta look at evidence and facts here. royce BEAT people. BADLY. he made them his BITCH. do you guys even know who royce is? he has an impressive fight record. bruce has none. he just has a bunch of movies. he never competed in any fighting tournaments. sparring with pads? lol. in mma, people spar full contact. no pads.

second - grappling owns striking. that is why to this day, when people who train solely in striking try to compete in ufc, they get taken down to the ground and destroyed. show me one example of some kung fu master winning in ufc. there is none.

Yea sure pal

Intelliegent reply...lol

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: aigomorla
you think royce could take a 1 inch punch and not fly backwards? Because theres plenty of videos showing guys near royces size taking the 1 inch punch and getting lunged backwards :\

You dont think a demo would not be setup to look good? Of course you do your best to setup the best looking demo you can. You control all the variables, stance, position, etc. You make sure it looks good. I can hold back 5 or 6 people with one arm. Its a physics trick, but I tell people I do it with my chi and it looks damn impressive. Of course if I dont tell them how to push and where to stand they will run me over. I'm not saying the one inch punch is fake, but I am saying I could setup a one inch punch that looks damn good just by positioning where a guy stands, and how he stands. It would help even better if he was my student, cause he would want to make me look good. But being my student is not nessiary. You also have the mental factor of the technique. Sometimes telling someone what you are going to do will make it true. For example, pressure point and no touch knock outs. If you can concince your students it will work, they are going down. But for some reason it never works on guys you didn't get to hype up or brainwash. So pick the right person and you can tell him what you are going to do, and subconciously he will let you do it.

I'm not saying the one inch punch isn't real. I've been hit by a few, they do hurt. Even boxers learn how to use short power. But short power is not going to send you flying 15 feet back. It hurts, but no more then any other kind of punch.

Yup, any punch that is done efficiently to the sternum can break bones.

**EDIT**

The idea of the one inch punch was used for tight spaces, which doesn't usually happen. It is mostly used to teach a person how to correctly use his whole body in a punch. Once they learn that, any punch will do.

Ever seen a girl punch (they throw there arms). See a trained person punch and he uses his whole body, yet can control the punch as well because he uses his body force efficiently.

Yup,

I have one thing from aikido that has held true in every single thing I have ever done.

Keep the one point (aka "It's all in the hips")

Body movement is the most important part of power generation, that and staying relaxed (and not all tensed up like a lot of guys seem to think makes them look awesome). Keep the body relaxed, shoulders down, hands up, and move them hips and you will notice a massive increase in your power. Punching with your arms is how you punch yourself out.

 

[FarpMan]

I guess Gene LeBell doesn't exist anymore (rolls eyes).

Royce defianatly, he did fight qualified fighters despite some of the lies I've read in here (Shamrock, Kimo, Gordeau, DAN MOTHER ****** SEVERN).

Bruce Lee is human.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: michaels
He would get his ass beat by a well rounded fighter from today. People get way to caught up in choregraphed and staged movie fights.

Exactly. Nobody fights that fast for real. You can do your moves a lot faster if all you've practiced the exact same sequence for hours on end.

In a real fight, they'd be on the ground very quickly.

both of you have no clue what you're talking about, they had to slow down footage of lee for the movies. he simply was that fast. and he developed his style specifically because he thought the existing forms of martial arts were too showy and weren't practical enough.

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: FarpMan
I guess Gene LeBell doesn't exist anymore (rolls eyes).

Royce defianatly, he did fight qualified fighters despite some of the lies I've read in here (Shamrock, Kimo, Gordeau, DAN MOTHER ****** SEVERN).

Bruce Lee is human.

Reminds me of the story when Gene LeBell fireman carried bruce around and kept him there while he ate his lunch. All bruce could say was "Put me down or I'll kill you".

 

[MasterAndCommander]

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: FarpMan
I guess Gene LeBell doesn't exist anymore (rolls eyes).

Royce defianatly, he did fight qualified fighters despite some of the lies I've read in here (Shamrock, Kimo, Gordeau, DAN MOTHER ****** SEVERN).

Bruce Lee is human.

Reminds me of the story when Gene LeBell fireman carried bruce around and kept him there while he ate his lunch. All bruce could say was "Put me down or I'll kill you".

He didn't want to put him down, because he was afraid he was going to kill him
A good story of how Bruce learned grappling:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040905201849/http://www.genelebell.com/brucelee.htm

 

[GeneValgene]

bruce lee was human, but so was royce gracie

have y'all forgotten about sakuraba? he beat almost all of the gracie family (royler, royce, renzo, and ryan) using his catch wrestling style

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: GeneValgene
bruce lee was human, but so was royce gracie

have y'all forgotten about sakuraba? he beat almost all of the gracie family (royler, royce, renzo, and ryan) using his catch wrestling style

Um, from your link:
Mitsuyo Maeda (Conde Koma) competed and trained extensively in catch wrestling. Maeda was the original teacher of the legendary Gracie family who eventually developed the modern fighting system of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
You make it sound like the Gracie's BJJ and catch wrestling are two different things, lol.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: 6shiw1
Did Bruce Lee think his martial arts was too classy for competitions? I guess making money from movies where guys are scripted to get their ass kicked by him is above professional competition? I'm sure those movies symbolized the true spirit of Bruce Lee's martial arts.

BTW I bet Ben Wallace (a bajillions of other atheletes/roiders) could do whatever Bruce Lee does with his arms, and then some.

Rofl, nobody is going to take you seriously. Post with logic instead of stupidity and maybe we will.

 

[Project86]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: 6shiw1
Did Bruce Lee think his martial arts was too classy for competitions? I guess making money from movies where guys are scripted to get their ass kicked by him is above professional competition? I'm sure those movies symbolized the true spirit of Bruce Lee's martial arts.

BTW I bet Ben Wallace (a bajillions of other atheletes/roiders) could do whatever Bruce Lee does with his arms, and then some.

Rofl, nobody is going to take you seriously. Post with logic instead of stupidity and maybe we will.

Actually I think I understand/agree with his first point. Someone earlier was saying that true kungfu masters wouldn't compete in a UFC style competition because it was not honorable, and because they only use it for self defense. Well, Bruce Lee chose not to compete but instead did movies which arguably degraded the art even more.

As for his 2nd point, I disagree. I'm sure there are people out there with the strength of BL, but most of them are way larger than him, and not as quick. Then there's the matter of practice... I don't think most people train as much as BL did.

 

[DaShen]

BUMP for BJJ in Real Life

*edit*
"One man's truth in combat may not be valid for another person or another generation," - Bruce Lee

Grappling has gone very far today. Danny Inosato has utilized more grappling in his techiniques than before. BJJ is quite useful in a real fight, but it leads to dangerous attacks as well. Once you are on the ground BJJ really shines.

Who really knows who would have won. Coming from different ages things change, but there is no doubt in my mind or many people who have learned some martial arts that Bruce was a real fighter. The nay-sayers are idiots. It would be incredibly interesting to have another person willing to train himself so hard in martial arts learn all these new techniques.