ouch, I agree.....pdf is the scourge of the computer manual world, i can't see the point of it.....you can't copy from it, edit it, files are HUGE, the browser sucks so bad and it's just crap!
Adobe Acrobat and PDFs suck. Nothing but badness in my book. I prefer a printed manual for most things. Basically, here are my preferences:
1. Printed manual.
2. A DOC file.
(everything from now on sucks)
3. A TXT file!.
4. M$ HTML Help format.
5. M$ Windows Help format.
6. PDF format.
1. Printed manual.
2. A DOC file.
(everything from now on sucks)
3. A TXT file!.
4. M$ HTML Help format.
5. M$ Windows Help format.
6. PDF format.
Honestly if they can pop free newspapers through my letter box why can't they even afford to give me a manual printed on toilet paper? At least I could wipe my arse on it better than with an Acrobat CD.
If you want manuals so bad then check out Falcon 4.0's. It will scare you sh!tless of manuals that you will wish they all came on .pdf.
hehe j/k. I can't stand those damn things, but then again - when was the last time I acctually looked through a manual for more than a glance?
hehe j/k. I can't stand those damn things, but then again - when was the last time I acctually looked through a manual for more than a glance?
My favorite help file incident was when I had email problems, and the ISP technician told me, "We have online email support..." Well, gee, thanks very little.
PDF files are so big I believe because they are basically the equivalent of GIF files (ie, large pictures, not text) and are cross-platform. They are a pain regardless.
PDF files are so big I believe because they are basically the equivalent of GIF files (ie, large pictures, not text) and are cross-platform. They are a pain regardless.
Adobe Acrobat is the embodiment of all that is evil :|
- Despite its claims to universal acceptance, it is still a CLOSED standard, controlled entirely by Adobe. If you examine a PDF file with a hex editor you will see that the file is actually encrypted. So much for trying to promote distribution of information! Even Microsoft Word format can be read and written by any major software. Not so with PDF. Sickening.
- With HTML/CSS/ActiveX/Javascript becoming the de facto open standards for Internet hypertext, there is absolutely NO need for a cross-platform solution like Acrobat. Some software and hardware companies have actually wised up to this and are distributing their documentation in simple HTM files -- no bloated, bloody reader to download, just a plain Web browser.
- Adobe STILL cannot figure out how to implement a proper scroll bar. This is insane! It plumbs the depths of ignorance that they cannot emulate so simple an interface as that offered by Windows Notepad!
- Using Acrobat, content providers must PAY to encode in PDF format.
Modus
- Despite its claims to universal acceptance, it is still a CLOSED standard, controlled entirely by Adobe. If you examine a PDF file with a hex editor you will see that the file is actually encrypted. So much for trying to promote distribution of information! Even Microsoft Word format can be read and written by any major software. Not so with PDF. Sickening.
- With HTML/CSS/ActiveX/Javascript becoming the de facto open standards for Internet hypertext, there is absolutely NO need for a cross-platform solution like Acrobat. Some software and hardware companies have actually wised up to this and are distributing their documentation in simple HTM files -- no bloated, bloody reader to download, just a plain Web browser.
- Adobe STILL cannot figure out how to implement a proper scroll bar. This is insane! It plumbs the depths of ignorance that they cannot emulate so simple an interface as that offered by Windows Notepad!
- Using Acrobat, content providers must PAY to encode in PDF format.
Modus
AndrewR,
No, the Acrobat format is not strictly a bitmap like a GIF. The text is still there, but it's encrypted and padded with bloated crap to make it hard for third party developers to read and write PDF files.
Modus
No, the Acrobat format is not strictly a bitmap like a GIF. The text is still there, but it's encrypted and padded with bloated crap to make it hard for third party developers to read and write PDF files.
Modus
Most people don't read manuals. Or if they do, it's only a small part of it, ususally just enough to get them into further trouble.
The paper manuals that are left are incredibly bad, very little real information. By that I mean info that someone who has two geek brain cells can use. On the other hand, most pdf's don't have that kind of info, either.
The cost of producing millions (after all, software is now sold in the millions) would be prohibitive. I remmeber my dBaseIV package: six floppies and three very thick three ring binders and about five softbound books. It must have weighed over ten pounds! That, and the relatively low volume sold, is what made it cost $400.... fifteen years ago.
If one software company puts their manual on a @#$!! pdf then everyone in the same genre has to, also, because of cost and competition. Oh, well....
Like it or not, and I really don't, pdf or some variant of that is going to stay here. (It sure is hard taking a monitor to bed to read.)
The paper manuals that are left are incredibly bad, very little real information. By that I mean info that someone who has two geek brain cells can use. On the other hand, most pdf's don't have that kind of info, either.
The cost of producing millions (after all, software is now sold in the millions) would be prohibitive. I remmeber my dBaseIV package: six floppies and three very thick three ring binders and about five softbound books. It must have weighed over ten pounds! That, and the relatively low volume sold, is what made it cost $400.... fifteen years ago.
If one software company puts their manual on a @#$!! pdf then everyone in the same genre has to, also, because of cost and competition. Oh, well....
Like it or not, and I really don't, pdf or some variant of that is going to stay here. (It sure is hard taking a monitor to bed to read.)
Oric
Senior member
- Oct 11, 1999
- 963
- 100
- 106
I prefer PDF files because
(1) Paper manuals are out of question. The environmental effects and the printing cost make it devilshly bad for the consumer and the forests
(2) Any standard set by Microsoft Office is out of question. How come opening a Word document is a lesser pain then a simple Acrobat reader ? Does Office 97 a lesser burden on our PC's if you have a 486 (or an early Pentium) system ?
(3) Having said that HTML is a better standart and way of distribution for all purposes but creating well formatted HTML documents is still hard. There are still inconsistencies of apperaence form one browser to another, so how do you think this problem is going to be resolved ?
(1) Paper manuals are out of question. The environmental effects and the printing cost make it devilshly bad for the consumer and the forests
(2) Any standard set by Microsoft Office is out of question. How come opening a Word document is a lesser pain then a simple Acrobat reader ? Does Office 97 a lesser burden on our PC's if you have a 486 (or an early Pentium) system ?
(3) Having said that HTML is a better standart and way of distribution for all purposes but creating well formatted HTML documents is still hard. There are still inconsistencies of apperaence form one browser to another, so how do you think this problem is going to be resolved ?
Oric,
The inconsistencies in HTML display between browsers have always been minimal (people using Netscape don't seem to see the Internet completely different, do they?) and manuals are hardly an example of the kind of document that would spark them. All that is required for a decent manual is proper margins, font faces and sizes, and picture positioning. HTML does this just as well as PDF, without the need for bloated, slow, third party software and encrypted, proprietary file formats. Heck, even MS Office would be better than Acrobat. At least those can be read and written by any word processor.
Modus
The inconsistencies in HTML display between browsers have always been minimal (people using Netscape don't seem to see the Internet completely different, do they?) and manuals are hardly an example of the kind of document that would spark them. All that is required for a decent manual is proper margins, font faces and sizes, and picture positioning. HTML does this just as well as PDF, without the need for bloated, slow, third party software and encrypted, proprietary file formats. Heck, even MS Office would be better than Acrobat. At least those can be read and written by any word processor.
Modus
Oric
Senior member
- Oct 11, 1999
- 963
- 100
- 106
Modus,
My banks treasurt division creates a weekly report on Turkish economy and it is very well formatted with nice charts and fancy fonts etc. It is prepared in Word and later exported to PDF not HTML ! The reason is because no matter how hard you try to "convert" the Word document into HTML the Netscape browsers are always tricked by the Microsoft Code doing the conversion. We can not expect (or wish) all our clients to use Explorer so PDF is a common platform. We also supply the .doc document for off line reading. If youknow any tool which converts Word documents into Universal HTML code please let me know. I will thank you a thousand times.
My banks treasurt division creates a weekly report on Turkish economy and it is very well formatted with nice charts and fancy fonts etc. It is prepared in Word and later exported to PDF not HTML ! The reason is because no matter how hard you try to "convert" the Word document into HTML the Netscape browsers are always tricked by the Microsoft Code doing the conversion. We can not expect (or wish) all our clients to use Explorer so PDF is a common platform. We also supply the .doc document for off line reading. If youknow any tool which converts Word documents into Universal HTML code please let me know. I will thank you a thousand times.
Modus: I wasn't saying that PDF files are bitmaps, just that they are amazingly bloated compared to other files similar to GIF vs. JPEG.
Modus and andrewR are essentially right.
HTML is better for the consumer. Acrobat is slow and the image quality is often not very good. It behaves suspiciously like a bitmap photo manipulation.
Does anybody here know how .pdf files are created? It's not as simple as scanning is it?
pdf files as I said ARE for the benefit of the maker not the consumer. I think many makers are paranoid about security of their files.
Niege you are talking ****. Manuals are not responsible for exorbitant serious software costs. Serious software is particularly sold according to what they think people can pay. Many serious packages get bought on expenses. To a business it is quite acceptable to pay $1000 for a computer and at LEAST $500 for each machine's apps they will be running all day. The software helps them earn money and is more important than the hardware to them. Do you seriously imagine that Microsoft incur costs in real proportion to the inflated price of their office suite which they sell to absolutely millions? Nope, they use brand recognition, compatibility fright and silly buzzwords to shift these units.
Does anyone here remember C64 games always being £1 more than Spectrum games? Or PC games being more than Amiga games? It was really about the fact that the more expensive machines had owners with supposedly deeper pockets. It was not harder to program C64 games.
HTML is better for the consumer. Acrobat is slow and the image quality is often not very good. It behaves suspiciously like a bitmap photo manipulation.
Does anybody here know how .pdf files are created? It's not as simple as scanning is it?
pdf files as I said ARE for the benefit of the maker not the consumer. I think many makers are paranoid about security of their files.
Niege you are talking ****. Manuals are not responsible for exorbitant serious software costs. Serious software is particularly sold according to what they think people can pay. Many serious packages get bought on expenses. To a business it is quite acceptable to pay $1000 for a computer and at LEAST $500 for each machine's apps they will be running all day. The software helps them earn money and is more important than the hardware to them. Do you seriously imagine that Microsoft incur costs in real proportion to the inflated price of their office suite which they sell to absolutely millions? Nope, they use brand recognition, compatibility fright and silly buzzwords to shift these units.
Does anyone here remember C64 games always being £1 more than Spectrum games? Or PC games being more than Amiga games? It was really about the fact that the more expensive machines had owners with supposedly deeper pockets. It was not harder to program C64 games.
Rigoletto,
Although the pathetic scrolling routines in Acrobat Reader make the document look like a simple bitmap, I'm almost certain that textual data is being stored as text, only encrypted. I discovered this when reading a PDF on a very slow machine with an ISA video card -- I could actually see the letters being written across the line, while the pictures had already appeared.
Modus
Although the pathetic scrolling routines in Acrobat Reader make the document look like a simple bitmap, I'm almost certain that textual data is being stored as text, only encrypted. I discovered this when reading a PDF on a very slow machine with an ISA video card -- I could actually see the letters being written across the line, while the pictures had already appeared.
Modus
Yes, text is stored as text in a PDF file. You can perform text searches in Acrobat and even select text for cut 'n paste operations (if the author allows the text selection function...most don't for security reasons). Acrobat is still a lame, slow-ass app and I hate PDF files.
They pop the manuals on cd in PDF format with these budget games, so that they can sell em for less..
How did that person extract text from acrobat files then?
I would like to use the college computers to print manuals for free you see.
I would like to use the college computers to print manuals for free you see.
When the evil Adobe Acrobat encoder makes a PDF files, there's an option to encrypt the text and disable Cut/Paste functions. The only way around it is to either find a crack for the encryption format, or capture screen shots and send them to some sort of OCR program.
Modus
Modus
I just want you to know that I just tried to print out the .pdf keycard for Jane's WWII fighters and everything has come out so small I can't read most of it. The damn program won't let me resize it like a DECENT WORD PROCESSOR.
Also, copying manuals with pretty background piccies means printing times are soooooo SLOOOOOOOOOOWWW and are wasting my ink.... what gives, huh?
Also, copying manuals with pretty background piccies means printing times are soooooo SLOOOOOOOOOOWWW and are wasting my ink.... what gives, huh?
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