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Poll: I can't decide: Pentium 4 or Athlon
Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
The reason I wrote such a biased reply is because of Insane! He is so far off. He doesn't factor in price or performance. He is just states opinions + rumors and give mostly facts. Here I might have been a little biased, but im sure more people here are on my side than Insane.
No more P4 vs. Athlon posts!
No more P4 vs. Athlon posts!
Even with the 50% price cut that does not make Intel the same price as AMD unless you want a budget motherboard and half as much RAM. Plus the desktop Palaminos are set to be out in what, a month? When those come out you can tack on another 200mhz plus a 10% clock for clock performance increase in the athlons.. and add in the fact that the Nforce MB's should be out with a $150 price tag and integrated SB Live 5.1 sound and Geforce2 graphics and price wise Intel will still be trying to play catch up. In order for intel to price equivalent to AMD they will have to lose money on each processor, which they may do but at that point AMD will STILL be making money.
Looks like intel is now on its way back. With a 1.8 Gig P4 comming out. I almost clearly shows that AMD is still behind in the pschological MHz war.
U see, what really matters to intel and AMD is how well there CPU do in OEM level. Huge OEMs like DELL, Compaq, IBM sell loads of PC...
The funny thing is all the way along, I have seen very few office/managed PC using AMD CPU. Intel offered sufficent performance with cheaper chipsets. a i815 or i810 solution is cheaper than and thing AMD could offer (at lease to a OEM which get huge discounts)....That is with PIIIs and Celerons..
In the Higher Perfomance level.. P4 from the start looked like a superior design to the AMD one. 1.8 gig vs 1.4 ...now the gap is scalability is showing.... AMD as u see now is having difficulty keeping up in the clock speed war. Intel has already started shifted to .13 micron CPUs AMD is still behind and has still toe show a .13 micron CPU ....Clock speed is very important for marketing and with top tier OEMs... Now with the prospect of a renewed intel AMD price war...Intel really has the ammo to win it out right this time around.
so back to the question, AMD or Intel , now I would still go with AMD due to the higher bang for a buck ratio especially if u are building your own..however, if u are buying a whole system....P4 might be the way to go now already....I am now pretty confident that my next Computer would most likely be using a Intel on DDR or RDRAM...the price of RD-RAM to me isn't such a big issue any more...even at double DDR SDRAM prices, it still not prohitibatbly expensive as it used to be. I am seriously more concerned with video card prices than ram ones....DDR SDRAM is just insanely cheap.....A Geforce 3 ain't...
I reckon that AMDs perfomance advantage Intels is going to be non existant soon.
<< Plus the desktop Palaminos are set to be out in what, a month? When those come out you can tack on another 200mhz plus a 10% clock for clock performance increase in the athlons.. and add in the fact that the Nforce MB's should be out with a $150 price tag and integrated SB Live 5.1 sound and Geforce2 graphics and price wise Intel will still be trying to play catch up. In order for intel to price equivalent to AMD they will have to lose money on each processor, which they may do but at that point AMD will STILL be making money. >>
LOL! Man.....I could care less either way, and own both AMD & Intel.......but I'd really like to see links to each of the claims made in the post above!😉 One in particular.........I hope AMD doesn't cut prices further! Damned man, they're cheap now and the company has already said they will have a rough rest of the year without further cuts. Margins weren't being met on most of their line in Q2 so what would further cuts accomplish except a loss?????🙁
LOL! Man.....I could care less either way, and own both AMD & Intel.......but I'd really like to see links to each of the claims made in the post above! One in particular.........I hope AMD doesn't cut prices further! Damned man, they're cheap now and the company has already said they will have a rough rest of the year without further cuts. Margins weren't being met on most of their line in Q2 so what would further cuts accomplish except a loss?????
I didnt make any of that up.. I read the AMD Stock message board at The Motley Fool (fool.com) and gather my information from various news sources linked there. Right now the rumor has it (and yes, it is just a rumor so Im not stating it as fact) that the desktop Palamino is going to be released at 1.7ghz or higher by late september. The die size of the P4 is much larger than the Athlon which not only increases the cost per CPU but also increases the number of CPUs that do not meet requirements and have to be tossed. Currently the yield on the P4 processor is not thought to be very high (the yield on the PIII at this point is estimated to be about 80%) which means per functional CPU intel is paying a significant sum relative to AMD. If you want links just go to the fool.com message board and read a few threads. If you think that the info on the Nforce is incorrect look at the June 4th release on the yahoo stock news for NVDA.
AMD will experience a loss in Q3, they already stated that. But what you need to realize is they are going to lose basically an insignificant amount of money to continue gaining market share.. in order to stop being Intel's Bit@# they need to reach a point where their market share can control its own pricing destiny, and just like Dell has done they are sacrificing margins in order to continue gaining market share.
The VP stated it best when he said that Intel is being forced to slash prices continuously on the P4 because its a crappy product for the price and in order to have any chance of maintaining their 77% market share they need to push the P4.
As for AMD stability, sure there may be a few more issues overall with some AMD motherboards, but hey do some research (which consists of reading one article on anandtech or tomshardware) and you'll know which MBs to buy. As for OEMs they know which ones to buy in the first place so it doesnt even matter. Ive built 3 computers now in the past 3 weeks and only one had any problems (the one with an Asus A7V) and that took a whopping 1 hour to fix.
I didnt make any of that up.. I read the AMD Stock message board at The Motley Fool (fool.com) and gather my information from various news sources linked there. Right now the rumor has it (and yes, it is just a rumor so Im not stating it as fact) that the desktop Palamino is going to be released at 1.7ghz or higher by late september. The die size of the P4 is much larger than the Athlon which not only increases the cost per CPU but also increases the number of CPUs that do not meet requirements and have to be tossed. Currently the yield on the P4 processor is not thought to be very high (the yield on the PIII at this point is estimated to be about 80%) which means per functional CPU intel is paying a significant sum relative to AMD. If you want links just go to the fool.com message board and read a few threads. If you think that the info on the Nforce is incorrect look at the June 4th release on the yahoo stock news for NVDA.
AMD will experience a loss in Q3, they already stated that. But what you need to realize is they are going to lose basically an insignificant amount of money to continue gaining market share.. in order to stop being Intel's Bit@# they need to reach a point where their market share can control its own pricing destiny, and just like Dell has done they are sacrificing margins in order to continue gaining market share.
The VP stated it best when he said that Intel is being forced to slash prices continuously on the P4 because its a crappy product for the price and in order to have any chance of maintaining their 77% market share they need to push the P4.
As for AMD stability, sure there may be a few more issues overall with some AMD motherboards, but hey do some research (which consists of reading one article on anandtech or tomshardware) and you'll know which MBs to buy. As for OEMs they know which ones to buy in the first place so it doesnt even matter. Ive built 3 computers now in the past 3 weeks and only one had any problems (the one with an Asus A7V) and that took a whopping 1 hour to fix.
awalton2021
Junior Member
BUY P4 man! Listen, the VIA P4XDDR is right around the bend and that will severly give you performance for your cash... Or if you want get a RDRAM board, more expensive so you dont as much cool add-ons but you get a superior quality RAM and thats good. So go P4, there's tonnes of options, just give it maybe 2 weeks to a month.😕
The die size of the P4 is much larger than the Athlon which not only increases the cost per CPU but also increases the number of CPUs that do not meet requirements and have to be tossed
Dude you are getting very confused. Intel will be on 0.13um well before AMD, recheck your sources. P4s will soon be much more efficient to produce
The VP stated it best when he said that Intel is being forced to slash prices continuously on the P4 because its a crappy product for the price and in order to have any chance of maintaining their 77% market share they need to push the P4.
AMD cut prices more often than Intel, albeit as a market strategy. Meanwhile Intel foolishy banks margin, silly Intel off there trying to make a profit again (and don't bring in corporate results unless you vet semiconductor and flash memory losses)
Dude you are getting very confused. Intel will be on 0.13um well before AMD, recheck your sources. P4s will soon be much more efficient to produce
The VP stated it best when he said that Intel is being forced to slash prices continuously on the P4 because its a crappy product for the price and in order to have any chance of maintaining their 77% market share they need to push the P4.
AMD cut prices more often than Intel, albeit as a market strategy. Meanwhile Intel foolishy banks margin, silly Intel off there trying to make a profit again (and don't bring in corporate results unless you vet semiconductor and flash memory losses)
SuPaFLyZ4LiFe
Senior member
B4 Anyone starts bashin me, i just wanna let u guys know i didnt read any of the replies...
This is just my opinion
I think you should go with Athlon because I read this report (www.emulators.com, it was about 3-4 months old) and it looks like that Athlon's gonna rule the pc world for at least 2-3 more years...
The article (at least 20 pages long) shows how intel did everything wrong and how athlon took it time 2 make a good chip, etc.
Also, athlon is cheaper and more reliable than P4 so I would go with the athlon
This is just my opinion
I think you should go with Athlon because I read this report (www.emulators.com, it was about 3-4 months old) and it looks like that Athlon's gonna rule the pc world for at least 2-3 more years...
The article (at least 20 pages long) shows how intel did everything wrong and how athlon took it time 2 make a good chip, etc.
Also, athlon is cheaper and more reliable than P4 so I would go with the athlon
supaflyNOS:
That article from emulators.com has been discussed ad nauseum. I have even had conversations with Darek, the author (via email). Despite his belief that the P4 has been crippled in someways even he agrees that it has a great deal of potential. The article is now showing it's age and is somewhat limited in it's scope
P4 uses a completely new architecture. It is likely that Northwood will give Intel an edge over AMD for a time (we don't know for sure but it seems likely, even Anand has commented that much)
That article from emulators.com has been discussed ad nauseum. I have even had conversations with Darek, the author (via email). Despite his belief that the P4 has been crippled in someways even he agrees that it has a great deal of potential. The article is now showing it's age and is somewhat limited in it's scope
P4 uses a completely new architecture. It is likely that Northwood will give Intel an edge over AMD for a time (we don't know for sure but it seems likely, even Anand has commented that much)
Dude you are getting very confused. Intel will be on 0.13um well before AMD, recheck your sources. P4s will soon be much more efficient to produce
Funny how "well before" means maybe 6 months until complete changeover. Both companies have .13 already just not all throughout.
and the funny thing is, even on .13 the P4 is at best comparable in size to the Athlon at .18.
The athlon at .13 will be 20% smaller than the P4 at .13.
Compare apples to apples.
Funny how "well before" means maybe 6 months until complete changeover. Both companies have .13 already just not all throughout.
and the funny thing is, even on .13 the P4 is at best comparable in size to the Athlon at .18.
The athlon at .13 will be 20% smaller than the P4 at .13.
Compare apples to apples.
Plus if you insist on continuing to give your money to a company that has historically charged $800+ for their best consumer chip then go ahead. I personally dont plan on buying from a company that has ripped me off that badly in the past.
We all owe a ton to AMD for bringing prices to the point they are at now.
We all owe a ton to AMD for bringing prices to the point they are at now.
I in no way have anything against AMD. Case in point refer to my recommendations at the beginning of this very thread. However you can't dislike Intel simply because they are bigger or because they try to make a profit.
Why people have this idealistic view of companies i will never know.
Why people have this idealistic view of companies i will never know.
SuPaFLyZ4LiFe
Senior member
on that article though, what intel did with selling a cheaper celeron *i think* which was a lot better than the pentium ? was just killin me
sh*t that was funny when i read it
im like dumbass but still they still know there thing
sh*t that was funny when i read it
im like dumbass but still they still know there thing
LOL again!😉 I didn't mean to imply that you "made it up"........I just doubt much of what was written will take place......especially in the time frame you gave!😉 The chip to be released in late Sept/ early Oct. will be the 1.533 and the 1.5 (200 & 266Mhz bus respectively) after that, the map for AMD is now pretty vague until at least Q1 '02.....🙁 They themselves admit (AMD) that they could well find themselves in a theroretical 500 to 700 Mhz hole by '02.....As for the rest, like nForce.......when was that "suppose" to be out again??????😉 Oh, and when/if it does finally make an appearance.........don't look for the 5.1 sound!😉:Q
EDIT: Flightman........I'm not trying to be condescending, but, I don't know where you're getting some of the info. you're writing about.😉 I've seen a lot of it written.......but, it's mostly all old news that's been revised since! Because of that, I'm not going to sit here and argue details with you.......but seriously.....I think what you read was a while back, or, older articles OK!😉
EDIT: Flightman........I'm not trying to be condescending, but, I don't know where you're getting some of the info. you're writing about.😉 I've seen a lot of it written.......but, it's mostly all old news that's been revised since! Because of that, I'm not going to sit here and argue details with you.......but seriously.....I think what you read was a while back, or, older articles OK!😉
damocles: I dont have an idealistic view of companies, but charging a 75% premium or more over what it cost them to make it does piss me off a bit. And now that I have a different option I see no reason to continue to give them money unless they demonstrate an unequivocally better product. As long as AMD stays competitive and prices their chips reasonably I will now buy an AMD even if at some point Intel has a slightly better price/performance ratio.. why? Because they never ripped me off. I dont want intel to go down the tubes but I sure would love to see them suffer for a few years. And, yes 6 months is a long time in the computer world but its not like AMD wont have any .13 production, its just going to be 6 months longer before they are completely .13 and part of that is because they will be adding the SIS also at the same time, which intel wont. AMD is also ahead of intel with regards to switching to the copper process. Each company has just been focusing on different technological jumps to complete first...
ToBeMe: Actually as I said in my post the 1.7 is just a rumor and may or may not be true, and likely will not but it is still possible. The 10-15% performance jump with the Palamino is not a rumor at all, the CEO and President of AMD have confirmed it multiple times. The 5.1 sound is definitely going to be a part of at least one Nforce chipset.. I have read that some of the recent news has mentioned that they may make 2 chipsets, one with the 5.1 and one without it, but they definitely will make one with it. The "earliest" reports for the Nforce being out were late July and early August.. and we arent that far off from that still. Those reports also were from rumor sites, Nvidia has never stated a time for the boards to actually be out. I mean, sure, they are delayed.. but whens the last time a piece of hardware hasnt been delayed?
ToBeMe: Actually as I said in my post the 1.7 is just a rumor and may or may not be true, and likely will not but it is still possible. The 10-15% performance jump with the Palamino is not a rumor at all, the CEO and President of AMD have confirmed it multiple times. The 5.1 sound is definitely going to be a part of at least one Nforce chipset.. I have read that some of the recent news has mentioned that they may make 2 chipsets, one with the 5.1 and one without it, but they definitely will make one with it. The "earliest" reports for the Nforce being out were late July and early August.. and we arent that far off from that still. Those reports also were from rumor sites, Nvidia has never stated a time for the boards to actually be out. I mean, sure, they are delayed.. but whens the last time a piece of hardware hasnt been delayed?
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