Poll: Gun Control: Does limiting who can get a gun reduce crime?

[bfdd]

UK, Canada, and Australia are all melting pots. The EU is have huge trouble integrating Muslim immigrants as well.

And huge issues with a rise in violent crime as well. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/philipjohnston/3674251/Immigration_and_crime_the_real_results/ as a result.

 

[boomhower]

Even if people carry weapons, they won't be ready when they are attacked. Allowing people to carry will lead to confusion as to who is the enemy and who is just defending themselves. There will be story after story of innocents being shot in the confusion of a situation.
A guy with a hand gun is going to be ready for a crazy guy with an AR-15? No way.
Is the solution to nuclear proliferation more nuclear weapons? Is the solution to kids getting bullied the supplying of each child a wooden baton or stun gun? What the hell is wrong with gun freaks? I know what it is. They are selfish and have no empathy. They are just dying to have their G.I Joe hero moment where they save the day with their trusty sidearm. Screw you guys and your stupid old western fantasies.

This has been the argument in every state that has passed CCW laws yet it never happens. The amount of unlawful shootings by CCW holders is incredible tiny. Being able to defend yourself makes you a gun freak? Some people don't want to be victims and want to be able to defend themselves. Those that yearn for gun control have plenty of countries they can move to since they are against the constitution of this one.

 

[HypX]

And huge issues with a rise in violent crime as well. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/philipjohnston/3674251/Immigration_and_crime_the_real_results/ as a result.

You rather have them armed as well as being violent?

 

[bfdd]

You rather have them armed as well as being violent?

Maybe they wouldn't get so violent if they were arriving in a place they knew they could get shut down easily? Also, I don't even want to assume they're going to be violent in the first place. I was simply adding to the thread that the increase in diversity to Europe has led to an increase in crime. I assume most people to be like me, well to do, not looking to fuck over anyone else and just want to live their life in peace without someone hounding them or having to worry about every little fucking thing. Of course there are those assholes that wish to force their will onto others, just like those of you who wish to strip from some of us our arms or right to even have them. So I stand up to that.

 

[HypX]

Maybe they wouldn't get so violent if they were arriving in a place they knew they could get shut down easily? Also, I don't even want to assume they're going to be violent in the first place. I was simply adding to the thread that the increase in diversity to Europe has led to an increase in crime. I assume most people to be like me, well to do, not looking to fuck over anyone else and just want to live their life in peace without someone hounding them or having to worry about every little fucking thing. Of course there are those assholes that wish to force their will onto others, just like those of you who wish to strip from some of us our arms or right to even have them. So I stand up to that.

So you rather have more murders than more violent crime?

 

[SparkyJJO]

UK, Canada, and Australia are all melting pots. The EU is have huge trouble integrating Muslim immigrants as well.

Not to the same extent as the USA. And to be frank I'm not surprised the EU is having trouble integrating Muslim immigrants because let's be completely frank, a large number of the immigrants are not interested in integrating.

So you rather have more murders than more violent crime?

Fallacy of a false dilemma. Don't do that.

 

[HypX]

Fallacy of a false dilemma. Don't do that.

So you think UK can liberalize its gun laws and not see an increase in gun deaths?

 

[bfdd]

So you rather have more murders than more violent crime?

Murder is a violent crime... one that doesn't require a gun.

 

[BladeVenom]

Drugs and sex are easily obtainable.
Most criminals can't build guns.
It would take a while (10 years?!), but after a 100% ban, guns would be rare.

If the US TOTALLY BANNED ALL GUNS, homicide would drop, guaranteed.
The same as if they totally banned all knives, cars, or anything else that can be used to kill.

Most drug addicts can't manufacture their own drugs, but they always manage to get them.

Building guns by hand in a garage can be done. It's common in the Philippines. Danao City is nicknamed gun city. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLApVGIU8eQ Interestingly enough, the popularity of guns in America, has caused legal gun manufacturers in the Philippines to start hiring these garage gunsmiths to keep up with demand. So legal sales are taking away from the black market there.

In a modern machine shop with CNC machines it's child's play. The most popular gun in America, the 1911 is over a 100 years old. It's not high tech, anyone with a little knowledge and basic machinery could make one.

Then there's our porous border with Mexico. Already billions of dollars worth of illegal drugs cross our borders every year. It wouldn't be hard to add guns to that illegal distribution rout.

Then there's the international black market. They'll sell to anyone. They already sell to the Mexican drug cartels.

The Chinese will sell to anyone. A major Chinese arms manufacturer, Norinco, was caught trying to sell fully automatic weapons to street gangs and drug rings in 1994. They've been banned from selling guns in the US, but if there was a gun ban, you can bet their guns would end up here.

Mexico has tough gun control laws, and their crime rate is worse than ours.

There are over 250 million guns in America. Banning them, wouldn't make them magically disappear. The genie is already out of the bottle; it's to late to try to put it back in.

 

[bfdd]

Making guns is easy peasy, most simply don't do it because it's rather cheap to buy a firearm. Though one can make more than a handful of 9mm fully automatic sub machine guns for around 100 bucks.

here's a book on it
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3170766/e...earms-9mm-submachinegun-complete-instructions

although the newer version is slightly better
http://www.scribd.com/doc/68107763/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-Vol-II-PA-Luty

 

[HypX]

Murder is a violent crime... one that doesn't require a gun.

There are degrees of violence. Murder is the most extreme. A bar fight would be violent, but hardly problematic. And the vast majority of murders in the US are from guns.

 

[HypX]

Most drug addicts can't manufacture their own drugs, but they always manage to get them.

Building guns by hand in a garage can be done. It's common in the Philippines. Danao City is nicknamed gun city. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLApVGIU8eQ Interestingly enough, the popularity of guns in America, has cause legal gun manufacturers in the Philippines to start hiring these garage gunsmiths to keep up with demand. So legal sales are taking away from the black market there.

In a modern machine shop with CNC machines it's child's play. The most popular gun in America, the 1911 is over a 100 years old. It's not high tech, anyone with a little knowledge and basic machinery could make one.

Then there's our porous border with Mexico. Already billions of dollars worth of illegal drugs cross our borders every year. It wouldn't be hard to add guns to that illegal distribution rout.

Then there's the international black market. They'll sell to anyone. They already sell to the Mexican drug cartels.

The Chinese will sell to anyone. A major Chinese arms manufacturer, Norinco, was caught trying to sell fully automatic weapons to street gangs and drug rings in 1994. They've been banned from selling guns in the US, but if there was a gun ban, you can bet their guns would end up here.

Mexico has tough gun control laws, and their crime rate is worse than ours.

There are over 250 million guns in America. Banning them, wouldn't make them magically disappear. The genie is already out of the bottle; it's to late to try to put it back in.

If that's true, how come so few guns are smuggled into Australia? Or Japan?

 

[bfdd]

There are degrees of violence. Murder is the most extreme. A bar fight would be violent, but hardly problematic. And the vast majority of murders in the US are from guns.

Violence is violence, only someone who makes excuses for their own would say any of it differs.

 

[bfdd]

If that's true, how come so few guns are smuggled into Australia? Or Japan?

Uh... there are a lot of guns smuggled into Japan and Australia. In fact you don't even need to smuggle guns into Australia because they already have a ton of them. I have a few bogan friends who have quite a few firearms among them.

 

[BladeVenom]

If that's true, how come so few guns are smuggled into Australia? Or Japan?

Guns have never been popular in Japan. Also both countries are island nations, and neither of them share a border with Mexico.

 

[micrometers]

Guns have never been popular in Japan. Also both countries are island nations, and neither of them share a border with Mexico.

lol @ mexico smuggling guns into the US.

It's the other way around.

 

[micrometers]

Making guns is easy peasy, most simply don't do it because it's rather cheap to buy a firearm. Though one can make more than a handful of 9mm fully automatic sub machine guns for around 100 bucks.

here's a book on it
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3170766/e...earms-9mm-submachinegun-complete-instructions

although the newer version is slightly better
http://www.scribd.com/doc/68107763/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-Vol-II-PA-Luty

You'd be in danger of blowing up your hand.

 

[bfdd]

Guns have never been popular in Japan. Also both countries are island nations, and neither of them share a border with Mexico.

Guns were popular in Japan at one point, there was even an arms race to get them. Helped bring about the death of the Samurai class. So they could be opposed to them due to culture shock that occurred when they were introduced and we simply today see the residual effects of it.

You'd be in danger of blowing up your hand.

You maybe, there are plenty of us with the ability to manufacture these without much issue. Seeing as I have more than a few years experience fabricating and working with my hands I'd feel safe building one. The only issue I have is with the barrel, I'd probably get my father to handle that as he's a much better machinist than I.

 

[HypX]

You maybe, there are plenty of us with the ability to manufacture these without much issue. Seeing as I have more than a few years experience fabricating and working with my hands I'd feel safe building one. The only issue I have is with the barrel, I'd probably get my father to handle that as he's a much better machinist than I.

You could counterfeit money too with very little effort. But you won't because you'd get caught. I'd imagine the same would apply if you made your own and try to sell your own guns.

 

[micrometers]

Guns were popular in Japan at one point, there was even an arms race to get them. Helped bring about the death of the Samurai class. So they could be opposed to them due to culture shock that occurred when they were introduced and we simply today see the residual effects of it.




You maybe, there are plenty of us with the ability to manufacture these without much issue. Seeing as I have more than a few years experience fabricating and working with my hands I'd feel safe building one. The only issue I have is with the barrel, I'd probably get my father to handle that as he's a much better machinist than I.

I'm actually not that worried about guys like you, though.

I'm more worried about guys like Jared Loughner.

So this ban would work. You would get a fun DIY project. Jared Loughner wouldn't be able to buy a gun.

 

[bfdd]

You could counterfeit money too with very little effort. But you won't because you'd get caught. I'd imagine the same would apply if you made your own and try to sell your own guns.

lol @ you thinking buying a gun off the street is any harder than finding cocaine. In fact I could probably call the same guy to get either.

karmypolitics, with said gun though, if I made it and decided to sell it there would be little to any possible way of tracking it back to me the person who made it. Who also knows how many hands such a gun like that would flow through. So it does suck that it is so easy, it's just an impossibility that it gets harder as information and resources become more available to the individual. What we need to do then is make sure there is LESS restriction on information and resources so people will be more greatly educated and as we come to learn education is probably the number one thing at stemming violent crime.

 

[HypX]

lol @ you thinking buying a gun off the street is any harder than finding cocaine. In fact I could probably call the same guy to get either.

Of course today it is pointless. There are so many guns on the street. If their weren't, making your own wouldn't be something you could pull off.

 

[bfdd]

Of course today it is pointless. There are so many guns on the street. If their weren't, making your own wouldn't be something you could pull off.

Then the kinds of guns in that ebook I showed you would be worth their weight in gold and there would be even more violence erupting in the arms race to produce and aquire them among criminals. Which would lead to different problems and issues for the regular law abiding citizen. Why make things more complicated?

I'd like to add, I'd probably make guns then if that was the case. Outlaw them tomorrow, I'll put in an order for a few hundred feet of tubing and what not as I could become a very rich man very quickly. Plus I'd be doing a service to the community by making sure they had higher quality pieces and not shit that blew up in their hands.

The problem you guys have is that the time machine doesn't exist. If you want to solve the issue of gun violence you need to invent the time machine. Though mind you, you would be creating a VERY VERY different world by removing them. One that may or may not be better.

 

[HypX]

Then the kinds of guns in that ebook I showed you would be worth their weight in gold and there would be even more violence erupting in the arms race to produce and aquire them among criminals. Which would lead to different problems and issues for the regular law abiding citizen. Why make things more complicated?

Why would criminals spend thousands of dollars acquiring guns? I'm aware that the Yakuza have relatively easy access to guns in Japan, but rarely use and almost never sells them to others. It is too risky for them because guns in Japan attract far too much police attention.

I'd like to add, I'd probably make guns then if that was the case. Outlaw them tomorrow, I'll put in an order for a few hundred feet of tubing and what not as I could become a very rich man very quickly. Plus I'd be doing a service to the community by making sure they had higher quality pieces and not shit that blew up in their hands.

A realistic gun ban would imply a series of laws preventing this. A lot more police to track illegal guns and gun smuggling, and finding people who are involved in such activities. Of course, if it happened tomorrow, they would probably be more interested in getting rid of existing guns than worrying about people trying to make there own. But if they really did got rid of nearly all the guns out there, a person like you would stick out pretty brightly due to all the illegal guns they find in the area.

The problem you guys have is that the time machine doesn't exist. If you want to solve the issue of gun violence you need to invent the time machine. Though mind you, you would be creating a VERY VERY different world by removing them. One that may or may not be better.

Didn't you already say Japan succeed in prohibiting guns? Why would the world be worse?

 

[BladeVenom]

If their weren't, making your own wouldn't be something you could pull off.

Why couldn't he pull it off. Guns are easy to make. Like I already mentioned, there is a whole city in the Philippines that is known for making black market guns mostly in sheds with just hand tools. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLApVGIU8eQ

Then there's the simple AK which is mostly stamped metal, designed to be easily made in small shops. Lots of people have made their own. You can find a lot of Youtube videos on how to make an AK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDppu3Mcj6E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO68T2RcD-Y
etc.

Now with 3d printers becoming more common, people will just be able to print guns. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133514-the-worlds-first-3d-printed-gun