Having spoken with POW's directly and hearing about how they were messaging each other through walls about "Hanoi Jane" coming to the hotel and how everyone was expected to dismiss her; yeah, I think she is.
I don't think two people in a crowd, not near one another, makes them together. Heck, while Hanoi Jane's face is quite prominent in front, they had to mark Kerry's face before I could see it. And it was a rally........they weren't protesting. They were listening to speeches being given, like so many protest rallys of the day were done. Everyone sat/stood around and listened to speaker after speaker talking about how the Vietnam War was something the U.S. should not be involved in and should depart from ASAP.
And she is Hanoi Jane......I remember that well when it happened.
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
I hate things like this. That picture is as damning as this stupidity over Bush's National Guard crap. They are both non-events. Just because he was at a protest with her, does not make him evil. It is not as if he was hoisting her on his shoulders or hugging her.
ok, this has gone on too long.
NOTHING about the vietnam was kosher, not the way we entered the "WAR", not the way we never declared war on vietnam, not the way we went about trying to "win" the war, not the way the vietnam vets were treated BOTH by the government and the citizens, not the way the government chose to ignore the POW's over there . . .
she chose the wrong side, no doubt about it, but OUR government didn't make it easy to support them either.
what OUR government did is JUST as shameful as what she did. let's get that straight. PROTESTING the war (NOT the stuff she did in vietcong) was NOT an UNPATRIOTIC thing to do at the time.
NOTHING about the vietnam was kosher, not the way we entered the "WAR", not the way we never declared war on vietnam, not the way we went about trying to "win" the war, not the way the vietnam vets were treated BOTH by the government and the citizens, not the way the government chose to ignore the POW's over there . . .
she chose the wrong side, no doubt about it, but OUR government didn't make it easy to support them either.
what OUR government did is JUST as shameful as what she did. let's get that straight. PROTESTING the war (NOT the stuff she did in vietcong) was NOT an UNPATRIOTIC thing to do at the time.
don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to defend what Jane Fonda did, what she did was wrong, but at least place it in the context of the time. a lot of things being done by a LOT of people in power during the vietnam conflict was wrong.
it's not nearly as clear cut as say WWII. if someone had done something equivalent to what Jane Fonda did, during WWII then yes, in my opinion, those offenses would be a LOT worse than what Fonda did.
it WASN'T clear in the 60's. in hind sight what she did was a lot worse than what it would have appeared to be to someone caught up in the mess during the 60's.
Yeah, she's Hanoi Jane; no amount of disinformation or fabrication will change that fact. What she did, aiding and abetting the enemy propoganda, IMO was treasonous.
just HOW was it treasonous?? did it risk NATIONAL Security??
what she did was wrong TO the particular POW's that suffered due to her actions, but let's get it straight, what she did to those POW's PALES in comparison to what our own government did.
keep things in perspective.
Uppsala9496
Diamond Member
- Nov 2, 2001
- 5,272
- 19
- 81
Just read this thread, and I must say thank you for pi$$ing me off this early in the morning. Great, now my day is ruined.
Jane Fonda is a traitor, and should have been tried as a traitor. Imagine someone pulling some stunt like that during WWII. They would have been tried for treason. However due to the political and media situation (first time a "CNN" war took place), nothing came of it. Had the media not played such a significant role in that conflict she most likely would not have been there in the first place, and if she did, she would have been tried for treason, hopefully found guilty, and hopefully have been executed.
[/end of rant]
Jane Fonda is a traitor, and should have been tried as a traitor. Imagine someone pulling some stunt like that during WWII. They would have been tried for treason. However due to the political and media situation (first time a "CNN" war took place), nothing came of it. Had the media not played such a significant role in that conflict she most likely would not have been there in the first place, and if she did, she would have been tried for treason, hopefully found guilty, and hopefully have been executed.
[/end of rant]
Uppsala9496
Diamond Member
- Nov 2, 2001
- 5,272
- 19
- 81
How is it treasonous? I think you need a little perspective. She crossed the line from war protester to aiding the enemy. That's how.
when did Congress declare war on Vietcong?? what was the national security implications of us being there?? would the US have gone down in flames if we HADN'T been there? Where was the national DEBATE BEFORE we went to "WAR".
it had NOTHING to do with Media coverage and EVERYTHING to do with our governments refusal to do things BY THE RULES.
We SHOULDN'T have been there and ONCE we went in, we SHOULD have at least TRIED to win the war. Finally WHO CHOOSE NOT to go back for the POW's?? was it FONDA??
IF it had been WWII she would have been shot and DESERVEDLY SO, DO NOT make it seem like the vietnam conflict was the same TYPE of war as WWII.
It doesnt mean a damn thing if the war was wrong, you dont go do what she did and screw over your fellow countrymen. I wonder how she woulda felt if the roles were reversed.
Uppsala9496
Diamond Member
- Nov 2, 2001
- 5,272
- 19
- 81
How's this for perspective:
Substitute the North Vietnamese with Osama.
Does that change your opinion? It's the same thing, just with the current bad guy instead of the old bad guy.
Discuss and enjoy.
Substitute the North Vietnamese with Osama.
Does that change your opinion? It's the same thing, just with the current bad guy instead of the old bad guy.
Discuss and enjoy.
i agree, what she did WAS WRONG, and it what she did was wrong to the POW's but it wasn't TREASON. she did not betray her COUNTRY, her COUNTRY betrayed ALL OF THE MEN THEY SENT OVER THERE.
the war was WRONG, it was ILLEGAL.
DashRiprock
Member
- Aug 31, 2001
- 166
- 0
- 76
As usual he's flip-flopped his stance. Read John Kerry's testimony to Congress while the war was still going on, that's traitorous. :|
Check out http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
I agree with you, my statement doesn't absolve Fonda for his actions. I was talking about the Anti War Movement, especially towards the end when it included not only Leftist, but Moderates and some Conservatives. OPf course during Herr Nixons Regime if you weren't with them you were against them and considered an Enemy Sympathizer.
You are a moron, which VIETCONG managed to burn down the twin towers?? how many acts of terrorism had the vietcong engaged in against the US BEFORE the vietcong conflict??
OMFG.
compare vietnam more to IRAQ, not to Osama.
I guess since we can all point fingers to government irresponsibility at some time or another, there are no murderers, rapists, thieves, and felons. The government did something wrong so I guess that absolves everyone else of their wrong.
Uppsala9496
Diamond Member
- Nov 2, 2001
- 5,272
- 19
- 81
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
when did Congress declare war on Vietcong?? what was the national security implications of us being there?? would the US have gone down in flames if we HADN'T been there? Where was the national DEBATE BEFORE we went to "WAR".
it had NOTHING to do with Media coverage and EVERYTHING to do with our governments refusal to do things BY THE RULES.
We SHOULDN'T have been there and ONCE we went in, we SHOULD have at least TRIED to win the war. Finally WHO CHOOSE NOT to go back for the POW's?? was it FONDA??
IF it had been WWII she would have been shot and DESERVEDLY SO, DO NOT make it seem like the vietnam conflict was the same TYPE of war as WWII.
Nothing to do with media coverage? Are you insane. The Vietnam war was the begining of what are known as "CNN Wars". Pick up a history journal and look into this. I'd rather not post a 250 page dissertation on this topic, but amoungst current historians, we all agree with the role that the media has had on current conflicts starting with Vietnam.
As for the Vietnam war (or conflict if you will) being right and wrong, that is not the question. Go read McNamara. Go watch the new documentary on him if you are not the reading type. That will give you a little more perspective into the history of the conflict. Blame the French. Blame the Japanese. Look back to the early 1930's and you will see how the Vietnam war started and finally ended. But don't go pissing on about how it wasn't ethical. Look at the facts and not your emotions.
Fvkcing hippies.
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