Poll: Divorce: Do the men get shafted or is this the way it should be?

[wyvrn]

Ok I am wanting to know whether guys, in general, get shafted when couples get divorced. I could be way off base here, so please enlighten me if I am But it seems like I STILL hear about more cases where the males loses primary possession of the kids, and the wealth generated by the marriage (IE: houses, cars, bank accts., and alimony payments) than the females. Are we stuck in a time-warp? If women are screaming for equality (as they should), should it not then be safe to surmise they should bear their half of the responsibilities in a divorce, and the men should also get their share of the rewards?

Or is it prevailing opinion that one parent should retain the children and house in a divorce and the other is relegated to weekend visits and child support payments? Cannot men also be deemed as primary parent, and if so, is this happening at an equitable rate?

Please not too many flames, k?

 

[Isla]

Every situation is different.

When I divorced my first husband, it was because he had a drug and alcohol problem. We had a baby and I did not want her being exposed to his 'friends'. Also, he was very violent at times.

I took full custody (supervised visitation only), full responsibility for the MasterCard bill he ran up (it was my card), the cat, and the dog. There was nothing else.

Each situation is going to be different... I imagine people hear more about the guy who gets shafted by his ex-wife than they do about the woman who just wanted the slimeball out of her life and was willing to give his ticket to 'freedom'.

 

[wyvrn]

That could be true, Isla. But why do we not hear stories of men who get everything and women who have to pay support? Do men still make more than women (I know they do nationally) and are therefore the primary alimony payers?

 

[BoberFett]

It does depend a lot on the laws in your state, and the luck of the draw when it comes to the judge you have to deal with. Some states are more equal, others such as my beloved Peoples Republik of Minnesota favor women heavily.

 

[MisFit]

Definitely depends, a very good friend left her husband, an ass to say the least. He got the house, the car and everything that went with it. The children had the choice of who they wanted to live with, they chose the father because he had the home, and she wont say a bad word about him to the children. All she took after more than a decade together was her clothes. Btw, she pays support.

 

[Isla]

Well, if Mr Isla wanted to trade me in for a younger model, it would be very expensive for him.

Why?

Well, first off, I paid for his last year of college. I have put off my own career to support him in his while raising our kids. I couldn't support myself and the kids if he decided he wanted out... and it wouldn't be right for us to be suddenly in poverty because he wanted something else after spending years with me.

Fortunately, he knows the kids would hate his guts if he ever did that to me, so I am not worried about it. But since he and I made our life decisions together (and those life decisions have made me more dependent on him than he is on me, at least financially) he can't just back out. I've been washing the skid marks out of his shorts and ironing his shirts for years (among many, many other things)... I may not get a paycheck every week, but my investment in him is an investment.

I would not 'take him to the cleaners' because I am not that kind of person, but he should not be able to rip us apart without serious penalty.

 

[wyvrn]

Misfit,

What was the judge's reasoning for giving him the house and car?

Isla,

I can see where you have made valuable contributions. What is rationale for determining what contribution is worth more? Money coming in or raising kids? It seems like the scenario often goes:

Man makes the money, women raises children. Judge gives women the kids (reasonably, because she has "been there" most of the time), and the guy has to make payments to keep the woman and kids' lifestyle at the same pt. as in the marriage. Logical, but seems to punish the bread winner too much (whether they are man or woman doesn't matter in this scenario, it just seems to be the prevailing one).

Vote in poll please.

 

[Zapster]

For the most part men do get shafted big time. Here is a web site I found that talks about a bias female judge.

Committee For Judicial Ethics

 

[Viper GTS]

It goes both ways.

We have neighbors two places down from us that just got a divorce. The guy ran off with a girl 20 years his junior. His (now) ex-wife is forced to sell their house & land because half of it's his & she can't afford to keep it. So she loses half of everything.

Crappy deal, to say the least.

:|

Viper GTS

 

[Emulex]

alimony and child support are different factors.

child support, goes to whoever takes care of the child, in a ratio based
upon the amount of time a child is in each household.

example:
50-50 custody: Take 20% of mans earnings, subtract 20% of womans earnings, thats how much you pay.

Its for the child benefit, to maintain the same lifestyle the child would have had if not divorced.

a good example is: Dad keeps kid every 2 weekends, makes 60K year, ex-wife gets about $900 (after tax) dollars for income.

 

[MisFit]

They didnt use a judge, they settled out of court, the kids were her primary concern. From what I understand, she left first, the kids stayed in the house with the father. The children were then asked by both of them who they wanted to live with. They chose the father, I guess they felt that he went with the home, the only one they had lived in. I am not sure of the details, but I do know that the house was almost debt free, but if it had been sold, the father was not making enough to buy another for the him and the kids, so she chose to leave everything so that the children could have all that they were used to.
She also was able to make more money, and therefore catch up finacially, more so than if the situation had been reversed. My understanding is, that for her, it all hinged on who the children chose to be with.

I agree with Isla, in that from what I have seen, a good many woman put their careers and earning potential on hold to raise the family and/or support their husbands.

 

[iamwiz82]

my brother pays $300 a week in child support for 2 children because his ex-wife got custody. She got the house, the car, the furniture, everything. It was revealed in court she cheated on my brother a few times, and one of the children he pays child support for is not even his. This little girl is 5 years old, and doesnt know, and i dont know if she ever will. My brother still takes care of his children and sees them more than their mother does.


Right now she lives in a townhouse with a black guy who has beaten her up many times, and has been arrested 3 times, for domestic violence. He brought in 3 children to their relationship. So right now, they have 5 kids in 2 bedrooms.


Gotta love the court system.

 

[Total Refected Power]

I think it is variable. I have a friend who really got screwed here in Massachusetts. He worked while she was doing residency and they had a child. After getting out of the low-paying trainee mode she divorced him, got a high-paying job, got-remarried, had another kid but the ex has to pay $700 a month in child support. That money is really just income for her as it doesn't cost 700 to pay for a single child.

 

[LadyNiniane]

In many states, including my own, there is an assumption that children should remain with the mother in a split-up. Concurrent with that bias is a rationale that "she" should keep the tangibles that mean "home" to the kids, and "she" should get child support and spousal support (alimony) from "him".

I have seen or been involved in three divorce cases (none of them mine, thank goodness) involving children - two of the three did not follow the pattern listed above. Both of those cases have had to fight tooth and nail for justice for the kids, and it's still not finished (probably won't be until all of the children are of legal age).

No long story this time , but the most spectacular case involves one "mother" (term used advisedly here), three fathers, 4 (at last count) kids, and abandonment of said kids by the side of a busy highway because the "mother" was "looking for God". Mom got the kids and the support because the state said they were "better off with her". :|

Four+ years later, the fathers have the kids, the mother has tightly supervised visits and is supposed to pay child support, and all of the kids are in counseling, but are beginning to get better. In between is several tens of thousands of dollars in lawyer fees, counseling sessions for all parties, collection agency fees, etc., etc., etc.

Mom was given custody three times after the highway incident and blew it all three times...but it took a fourth judge to finally make things stick. (I believe that the judge holds a threat of termination of parental rights if she f*&^s up again.)

Personally, I'm beginning to lean towards licensing parents before birth/adoption, with mandatory retesting whenever a change in parental status occurs (divorce, remarriage, whatever). Something's gotta change, starting with the assumption that "Mom" is the greatest.

Lady Niniane

 

[Dameon]

Yes. When it comes to custody especially, men get screwed in divorce courts. Fathers that love their children are easily dragged through the mud. Allegations of abuse / molestation can be made by a vindictive ex that never go away. Divorice is an ugly, ugly situation... but there are also alot of dads out there who stop sending their $$$ when the kids really do need it.

 

[ignorus]

There was a local news report about a woman who divorced her husband right after winning the lottory (without telling the husband). After the ex-husband discovered she won, he took her to court and the judge awarded the full amount of the winnings (like 7 million) to him .

 

[MisFit]

wyvrn I asked her why they didnt go through the normal process, she said that her first visits to several lawyers indicated that they were not happy about how she wanted to proceed. Their general approach was to get all they could from the marriage property for her. That was not what she wanted as her children would suffer in the end.
I also have to say that I have never seen children so well adjusted after a divorce.

 

[FettsBabe]

Ahhh, a topic I like. Men Get SCREWED! When I get my law degree I want to specialize in family law particularly for the fathers. The system is so screwed up. Psycho and I have been talking to an attorney for 8 months now about filing, and we are putting together our last documentation this month. At this time the attorney will tell us to file now or next spring. Currently, we have enough to get in court and to order a custody evaluation, however, we want to win full custody.

However, lets analyze the real issues:

1. Dads - when you leave take the kids WITH YOU! You have just as much right to the kids as the mom. Make sure that you have somewhere to stay and a birth certificate to prove they are yours in case you have to show the police that they belong to you too. If she can't show documentation that they are hers then they can stay with you until you guys go to court. The best thing to do is consult with an attorney before you leave.

2. Don't ever settle. If you want primary you will need to fight in court. Order a custodial evaluation. Costly, but it can either make or break your case.

3. Hire the best attorney you can find.

4. Don't act stupid and vendictive.

5. Communicate via letters. Make sure you are nice though! Keep a journal of all events and don't be biased. Speak honestly and do it after you calm down. This is cheap, but don't tell the other party you have it, so you don't have to turn it over to her attorney (JMHO). I wouldn't tell your attorney either. Consider it a diary. Keep a notebook of all letters/documentation that you pass back and forth to each other.

6. Have money for the attorney and evaluation before you leave.

7. Mothers use to win in court because they were women, now that is changing. Fathers can win if they fight. Don't give up and don't settle. The settlement is probably what you will get in court anyway (unless they are offering everyother week 50/50 custody and visitation).

**After many years of separation, 6 to be exact, Psycho's x still trys to make his life miserable, including but not limited to: communication-health, communication-school, visitation weekend switches to accomodate activities while he is with us, punishment - he misbehaves in school because she doesn't punish him, waiting to sign him up for tutoring eventhough the teacher recommended it 3.5 months ago, etc.

 

[wyvrn]

FettsBabe

I had supposed the poll would favor men since it is on a male-dominated site, but your response suprised me


Misfit,

If that is the sacrifice she made for her children, then she does indeed care most for the wellbeing of her children. Although she would have been able to give them as good a home if she tried, don't you think?

 

[MisFit]

wyvrn, I am sure that she could have, but from what I understand, the choice was left to kids as to who they wanted to live with and everything else was worked out as result of the children deciding to stay with the father.
When my friend talks about it, I think she is still somewhat shocked that they decided to live with the father.

 

[Isla]

I have to repeat, each situation is different.

You can't generalize.

My ex-husband was able to get a grip on his life, and I have to say even though I am glad I'm not married to him, I am damn proud of him. When I met him, he was 19 years old and living out of his car because his divorced parents couldn't stop fighting for long enough to raise him.

I was never vindictive and did everything I could to show my ex that even though we were not married, I DID care about him. He is, after all, the father of one of my children, even if he is a bit of an idiot. I told him that I would NEVER do to our daughter what his parents did to him.

Last weekend, my ex, his wife, and their younger daughter stayed at my house because they were attending a dance competition in my town. Yes, they stayed in my house, as my guests.

My ex-husband's wife calls me her "Wife In Law".

People who are assholes are assholes. People who live by the sword, die by the sword. My strategy was to 'win' with love, love, and more love, even if many times my ex did not deserve it. To be quite honest, my ex and his family are kind of annoying. Our daughter isn't too crazy about her dad's side of the family... but that is what they are, family. My ex husband is kind of like a cousin to me now. Not my favorite relative, but a part of my life for better or for worse.

I know I am an unusual case. My husband's wife says all her friends think we are crazy, but I think it is all the selfish people who can't see past their own belly buttons who are crazy.

If Mr Isla decided he wanted someone younger AFTER the kids were grown, I would let him leave with my blessings and the lion's share of everything. If he was THAT unhappy with me, I would want him to find his happiness. For now, we have kids to raise, and that is the #1 most important thing.

 

[wyvrn]

Ok thanks Isla

 

[Frenchie]

Having handled a few family law cases myself and having two of my best friends from law school specializing in family law.....Yes, women do tend to make out better than men. That is especially true when dealing with custody and support issues.

 

[datalink7]

one of my dads friends really go the shaft in a divorce a couple of years ago.

He paid for his wife to go through 4 years of college to get a degree in architecture. About a month after her graduation, she files for divorce. She got the house, custody of the kids, and about half of his paycheck each month (initially. It is somewhat down now cause that was just too much).

This guy is really nice, never beats his kids or anything like that. She was having an affair with a doctor while they were still together (she wanted a divorce so she could run off with this doctor), and he still got screwed.

I think that generally women get the better deal. But realization that women aren't always the better parent, etc. is becoming more known and outcomes for divorce cases are now starting to be decided more on merit than gender.

 

[kenhubbs]

Well, I can speak from a different viewpoint than of those who previously address this issue:
I am a 21 year old male college student. My parents divorced after a 5 year marriage when I was 1. My mother got custody of me and I lived with her until it was time for me to leave and go to college. My father never lived more than 15 minutes away and I saw him alot, and he had visitation rights. I would go stay with him when he was off during the week, and once a month when he had a long weekend off I would stay with him then. My parents both work in the same steel mill (I am from Indiana near Chicago) and have been there for around 28 years each. I am an only child, and neither of them remarried or had any other kids. My father is a functioning drug addict. He is one of the minority that has a severe drug problem yet still manages to hold down a job and be a somewhat productive member of society. Indiana does not allow alimony, and my father was ordered to pay $50 a week for child support. He did not pay it much for the first couple of years, and then it was just garnished from his wages. In the divorce decree, I was placed on my father's health insurance, and he receives me every year for the tax deduction. He contributed nothing else to my upbringing. My mother paid for my 4 years of private high school, and will pay for my 4 years of private college, not to mention help me pay for the 6 years of grad school I will have to get my Ph.D. My dad got it easy. men get shaften many times because they deserve it. my mother could have asked for more but she didn't because she doesn't need it. besides, my fater is irresponsible and I could not count on him for anything. many times the court may place the child with the mother, but many times that really is what is best. I do not know many people who went to live with their fathers who are doing ok. Money is by no means a good reason to live with a parent. it does help, but i know many bad fathers with good money. it does turn out that my mother makes significantly more money than my father does because she works a great deal of overtime and my dad does not like to work. before anyone condemns the situation look at everything involved. i shudder to think how i would be today if i was sent to live with my father. there is always more to it. just think about that