Poll: are you more worried about the future of healthcare NOW than before the bill??

[Moonbeam]

That's it.... That's it!!! Let it all out! Been awhile since Ive seen a post like this.

I thought it would be fun to channel your hate for religion.

 

[jstern01]

You want to know a FACT?

Emergency room used did not drop in Massachusetts after everyone had insurance and access to "preventative care".

This has to do with rationing how? Stay on point.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I make no apologies M, I have to be shown that a bill with such sweeping implications has been written by those who have a grasp of consequences. You know I've always said health care needs reform, but this isn't it. Medicine requires more of a holistic approach with the priority being the relationship between the provider and patient. What we have here are a lot of regulations which address who may provide coverage, and while I'd like to see more people covered it can't be done without a great deal of understanding of how the system works.

I simply do not see due diligence applied here, mostly political expediency.

That bothers me a great deal.

I understand that you wish to do good, and I do not count you as one who is a partisan. That's why I can respect your opinion. Others I'm not so sure about.

We seem to have lost the ability as a people to think about things effectively.

 

[werepossum]

Please point me to some of the rationing that occurs in UK or Canada, that is not also done here? Every procedure and every test done for a non emergency in the US has to be preapproved, is that not rationing?

Why is the infant mortality rate in the US higher than in New Caledonia? Or the life expectancy lower in the US than in Costa Rica?

Simple, we don't prevent problems, only treat them after the fact. That cost a helluva of a lot more then preventative care.

Waiting in long queues is a form of rationing. For instance, the studies showing that half of Canadians waiting for an MRI for one type of heart disease drop off the list before they actually get the test - some die, some become too sick to qualify for the procedure, some drop off for unknown reasons, and some go to another country or to a private for-pay clinic. This is a form of rationing, restricting access. So is women having babies in cabs, elevators, and waiting rooms because there aren't sufficient beds or providers, which is a huge problem right now in the UK. Neither Canada nor UK has a problem figuring out how to buy hospital beds or train nurses and doctors, they simply limit these to keep costs down.

Infant mortality is high in the USA because we count every baby as a live birth, because we have poor prenatal care, and because we have such a high rate of babies born addicted to crack or meth or heroin. Only the second factor can even be addressed by more money, although admittedly the first could be "cured" by counting severely underweight, premature, or malformed babies as still births as is the norm.

American life expectancy is low because we are more violent, drive more, much more obese, and more black than are comparable countries. Just improving diagnosis and treatment success for black people, who have significantly shorter lives than do whites, Asians, or Hispanics (to the extent these are homogeneous groups) even when factors such as obesity or income are corrected, would do much to put us at parity. Reducing our obesity would put us above almost all nations, as we excel at end-of-life care.

 

[Patranus]

This has to do with rationing how? Stay on point.

Did you even read what you wrote?

Simple, we don't prevent problems, only treat them after the fact. That cost a helluva of a lot more then preventative care.

So, if I am pointing out that when the government gives everyone access to preventative care people still don't use it, I am off point?

 

[ProfJohn]

Poorly worded and biased poll answers...

What is biased about it??

If you support the bill you were most likely worried about the system prior to the vote and if you oppose the bill you are most likely worried more about it now.

Seems pretty simple to me.

I should have put in a 'not worried' category, but otherwise I think it is fine.

 

[Fern]

Something like $700 billion of it is new taxes - that's a concern.

It didn't do anything with regard to our underlying problem of rising HC costs - that's a concern.

I'm not buying the advertised effect of not increasing our national deficit. Shifting costs from medicare that may or may not happen, acting like medicare/medicaid fees will be cut when we know they won't, and I'm betting they the assumptions provided to the CBO low-balled the increased costs for Medicaid expansion. Even if Medicaid costs weren't low-balled, when the fed gov tries to ween states off of that subsidy we'll have problems.

Then there's the unintended consequences that will play out. These could really be a problem.

The few things that may be a benefit are far outweighed by the problems in this bill.

Fern

 

[StageLeft]

Less now TBH. Although I think the government in both parties is letting this country down I am hopeful that the slant some take that this is going to end up in the destruction of private insurance is accurate. I just don't think it's working as it should.

 

[nealh]

No, I am much less worried now. One thing I don't need to worry is if I get sick, the insurance company can't find some BS excuse to rescind my coverage and tell me to FOAD. And if I do get a pre-existing condition at some point, I will still be able to get insurance instead of going bankrupt from medical bills. In exchange I am mandated to get insurance, but currently I get it from my employer anyways, and asked to subsidize the poor which I do indirectly anyways when they get care at the ER. I'd rather subsidize them to get insurance and see a regular doctor instead subsidize them to get all their care at the ER.

You realize with this bill it will be cheaper for your employer to pay a fine and dump your insurance and then you will pay more. Maybe you cant afford it even with subsidies.

This will not prevent abuse of ERs there wil lbe many who will still opt not to buy insurance!

 

[nealh]

What amazed me by this process outside of the fact the Democrats decided that what people wanted was wrong and they knew best, was how few people understand that most have to pay for this "reform".

It was corrupt politics at its worst. Dems: the process we are using to pass this has been used so many times before, its ok. It has not been used as far as I know on a huge "entitlement program".

FWIW, the idea of a deficit reduction is pure BS. The CBO's last data on deficit reduction was wrong. It was based on the 21.2% medicare cut on MD pay to take affect. Which congress has postponed and will have to fix if they want internists and family practioners to accept these pts.

The CBO admitted they had to use current law, which states the pay cut went into affect on Jan 1, 2010. Without it, the bill already adds $50 billion to the deficit!

The opponents of this reform ie republicans are morons on how to
The Very simple thing they need to emphasis is...the reform is a health tax on almost everyone!

Also that small business will be much less likely to expand for fear of invoking costs for healthcare. NO small business expansion no jobs.

If you stay under 50 employee(thi includes taking into affect of part-time employees) you avoid health insurance costs.

Large corporations, may dump insurance as the tax credits lost in the bill are huge. Catepillar and another large corporation(I cant recall who it was today or yesterday) said it would run over $100 million for both of them each in lost tax credits to maintain health insurance for employees. They think it maybe cheaper to take the $2000/employee fine as it could be cheaper.

I asked the office manager in our practice what we supplement employess for insurance= $275/mo. Thats greater than $2000 fine. We have <50 so we could dump it as I understand and save money.

So if a company with 50 employees dumps insurance, they save money maybe and the employee has to pay and the govt some. The employee is screwed evern more....it is like a huge tax increase for them.

There has been no talk on what the insurance will look like for most. Cost, deductibles, co-pays etc.

Premiums will likely go up for many to offset the added cost to help the uninsured.

This will lead in 10yrs IMHO, to govt madating lower prices and eventually full govt takeover...as private business will not be able to avoid the costs.

I should point out, I have not read the entire bill, I cant it's not in English..it's legal crap.

I want to know where they are going to find qualified MDs in 10yrs to go to school for 12yrs plus to be paid crap, told how to practice and what treatments will be available for whom.

People can forget about dedicated professionals. I for one cant see on-call practice to be like today. I cant wait for the pt to call at 7am on Sunday want a refill or exam. The new MD will be like your mechanic, sorry were not open.

You cant imagine how much people feel entitled to call me at any hour and any day.

The quality of student will drop rapidly.

I knew going to medical school that I was giving up alot of my life, personal time to help people but part of the reward was a secure income.

I cant tell you how much I missed out to make sure i studied and succeeded. I did very well in school. I got scholarships and owed very little but today $250,000 of debit would not be unheard(when i graduated in 1991 from Med school avg was around $50-60K). How are they going to pay for that.

I promise you, I want only students like me treating me...I am a classic overachiever. In many cases I feel stupid with some colleagues, they are that bright. You want those type of individuals treating you, there like encyclopedias. I really want to help all my patients, I care about them and their situations. That will change in most cases but not all.

There is so much more wrong that I have not even touched on....mark my words this will permanent put gov't between you and your doctor.
The bottom line for you will be your health and they will ultimately only care about the $$$/benefit. Dont forget mammograms.

I will stop ranting in this post now. Sorry

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

You realize with this bill it will be cheaper for your employer to pay a fine and dump your insurance and then you will pay more. Maybe you cant afford it even with subsidies.

This will not prevent abuse of ERs there wil lbe many who will still opt not to buy insurance!

Without the bill they could have dumped it with no fine at all and would have been more inclined to do so with the rising rates and lack of subsidies and tax credits that are now in place. Regardless, the best thing that can come out of this bill is decoupling health insurance from your employer.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I am just wondering how many others are more worried about the future of our healthcare system now than before this bill was signed.

Having seen government run schools, post offices, libraries, healthcare etc etc I get the feeling that what we are going to get in the long run is going to be much worse than what we have today.

In fact, what I think we are going to learn is that the people who currently have healthcare are going to be much worse off in the future than they are now. Our premiums are going to go up and our quality of service is going to go down.

That is inevitable, you can not increase the number of people covered by healthcare insurance by 10&#37; and not expect higher overall costs and longer wait times.

The only people who will benefit from this bill will be those who can not get insurance today and poor people who will get highly subsidized healthcare insurance.

What is it about the US healthcare system that makes it so crappy? Why exactly are people complaining about it in the first place? And what did the bill change?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

What is it about the US healthcare system that makes it so crappy? Why exactly are people complaining about it in the first place? And what did the bill change?

Haven't you been paying attention? Our system was just fine until this government takeover of healthcare. We are on the verge of armageddon! Death panels, RFID implants and salt bans!!!1!

Or it just brings just a little bit more in line with every other industrialized nation regarding healthcare.

 

[Moonbeam]

I make no apologies M, I have to be shown that a bill with such sweeping implications has been written by those who have a grasp of consequences. You know I've always said health care needs reform, but this isn't it. Medicine requires more of a holistic approach with the priority being the relationship between the provider and patient. What we have here are a lot of regulations which address who may provide coverage, and while I'd like to see more people covered it can't be done without a great deal of understanding of how the system works.

I simply do not see due diligence applied here, mostly political expediency.

That bothers me a great deal.

I understand that you wish to do good, and I do not count you as one who is a partisan. That's why I can respect your opinion. Others I'm not so sure about.

We seem to have lost the ability as a people to think about things effectively.

For a long long time I have withheld judgment on the health care bill. I do not know enough and I doubt I know as much as you do on this issue. I am sure this is not the best bill that could have been written but I am sure it is the only one that was. I said also, long ago, that I hoped the net plus from this will be better than as things are now, but that also I do not know.

But what I also know is that the hostility to any kind of health care reform from the right made it inevitable we would get only a partial fix. Real people with real knowledge, intelligence, and good will are going to have to try to educate congress so they can pass a better bill.

I hope we took a step and I hope we take more, but I do not know if the step we took was for the better. I can't help but think it's better that folk who couldn't get medical help because of poverty, can get some now, especially kids, because they aren't poor by choice.