Poll: Are you a conformist? what does it mean to conform anyway?

[Sir Fredrick]

It seems that it has become more and more popular to be different, to fight conformity and be non traditional, etc. It seems that in a way, through non-conformity, we are conforming.

I have always valued individualism and made a concious effort to avoid conforming "just because" - I like to think that by evaluating each issue I can take my own stance on a case by case basis.
There are certain qualities that set me apart from the mainstream, even apart from the non-conformists.

Anyway, please share your definition of conformity, and whether or not you feel that you conform to society's norms, or whatever. If you are a non-conformist, what do you do to avoid conforming, or does it happen naturally?

 

[Spendthrift]

its impossible not to conform to something. theres too many people in the world to be an individual. but we can all be individuals together

 

[b0mbrman]

Hmmm...I think it's all relative and everyone conforms to something.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

I actively conform to non-conformity.

Guess that makes me a crack monkey.

nik

 

[gopunk]

i am non-conformist in my advocation of conformity of non-conformist groups. right to lifers, elf, all those nutjob organizations... i wish they would just shut up and conform.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

I fit in some or all of the following groups, depending on the day of the week, phase of the moon, alignment of the stars, the weather, the amount of lint in my left pocket, and whether or not the chicken came before the egg:

conservative
liberal
libertarian
punk
geek
lesbian
cross dresser
closet nudist
genius
idiot
jerk
nice guy
gourmet chef
non-conformist
conformist
one of those weird guys who wears hawaiian shirts in cold places like Michigan
sleepy person who needs to go to bed right now
...and many more

Am I really conforming to these groups though, or do I just happen to fit into them on occasion? It seems to me that if you're not actively trying to fit into them, you're not really conforming to them. But if you're actively trying to not conform with the groups, then you are conforming with the non conformist group...or something.

 

[linuxboy]

Conformity to me is the active pursuit of adherence to a particular system. Non-conformity to me is the active negation of a particular system, thus placing one in a converse system.

Individualism is the affirmation of one's own self and ego as of ultimate importance and overriding any and all societal considerations.

Individualism is fallacious, I think, since it tends to assume that one is somehow detached from society and can overcome it by sheer acts of volition. Conformity seems to be somehow erroneous as the consequence is a sort of blind lack of self-inspection. Non-conformity seems to be erroneous as not only it is a negation of a bad strategy, which does not result in a good, but it is moreover a maladaptive survival strategy unless enough non-conformist organize, at which point I question the real condition of their relative and self-proclaimed freedom.

Do I conform to society's norms? Which society and during which time? Am I a non-conformist? I could be if I chose it, yet what's the point? Would it come naturally then? Yes.... but again, how is that a desirable course of action. If one takes a passive approach then what?

We can all be individuals together? I like that and am reminded of the quote saying we are each like angels with one wing, needing another to fly.

everyone conforms to something

At some point, it's not all relative, I think. Platitudes like that really do have more significance that an utterance. One must conform to something, unless one exerts no force to counter incoming change, meaning that conformity doesn't exist, except perhaps on the outside.

Guess that makes me a crack monkey.

... or a conformist.

Cheers !

 

[gopunk]

lesbian

don't you have to be female?

closet nudist

does this mean you're secretly a nudist, you get naked in your closet, or you have a naked closet?

 

[tcsenter]

<< what does it mean to conform anyway? >>

Well, here's my take on it, from someone who was big into the non-conformity scene in my more formidable years. Punk bands (Corrosion of Conformity, SNFU, The Ramones, Dead Kennedys, that sort of stuff), skate boards, slam dancing (later picked-up by the metal crowd and dubbed 'moshing'), hall shows, tattoos and piercings (long before it was 'fashionable'). There were only about six of us into that stuff in the entire school (a middle class farming and blue collar community).

In our case, we didn't seem to 'fit' neatly into any of the social groups. We were all reasonably 'popular' preps and jocks from two-parent homes before we 'migrated' (for lack of a better term) to this alternative sub-culture. From there, we found skate boarding.

Skate boarding was not the popular 'mainstream' sport that it is today. There were no communities building $50,000 skate parks, except for a couple in Florida and California. We lived in mainstream Michigan, where communities spent money chasing us away and passing ordinances against skateboarding. That is what I think spear-headed the 'anti-establishment' backlash and resentment. The only other skate-boarders in our area were kids who were also being chased away by the cops.

To get into the harder anti-establishment and non-conformity cultures, we had to go to a larger city. There just wasn't that element in our own communities. At the time, there was no better place to find anti-establishment culture than Flint, Michigan (and Ann Arbor). It had a thriving punk/alternative/skate culture in the 1980's. And so it was...

Thank goodness we grew out of it, though it did impart some valuable lessons on us. We took quite a bit of ribbing from our 'other' friends and classmates, so we learned not to really give a rat's ass about what other people thought or said about us, which still holds true today.

Conformity in and of itself is an unqualified and neutral thing. Everyone conforms to something or another.

It is the motive or reason for conformity that matters.

 

[Moonbeam]

tcsenter, in my more formidable years I was a tiger.

Belonging to an alternative, sub or counter couture group is just another form of conforming.

Sir Fredrick, I wonder if you haven't made the same kind of assumption that tcsenter also seems to make when you say that you are different than non conformists. You seem to suggest they have something in common. It would seem to me that what they have in common would be accidental.

I like this line. "I concider him a man, only, who can satisfy both the wolf and the sheep intrusted to his keeping.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

<< lesbian

don't you have to be female? >>



Well sure, if you follow those kinds of rules.



<< closet nudist

does this mean you're secretly a nudist, you get naked in your closet, or you have a naked closet? >>



Much like a closet alcoholic, I am only a nudist in my own home when nobody else is around. My closet is also naked, as it is not wearing any clothes. It does hold all of mine though, since I don't have a dresser.

 

[SackOfAllTrades]

everyone conforms whether they like it or not.


good morning everyone, you're a tool.

i am one too, but i don't waste anymore iq points trying to seems so different. just be yourself, that's freakish from nature enough.

 

[SpecialEd]

[sings] I want to be like Mike [/sings]

 

[jjones]

I just do whatever the fvck I want to do. If that's conforming or non-conforming, so be it, I couldn't care less.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

<< [sings] I want to be like Mike [/sings] >>



I have a sticker that says "when I grow up, I want to be like me" plastered on my monitor.
Which brings me to the topic of Hot Topic. The people who hang out/shop in there seem to think they're non conformists, they consider themselves radical or extreme...and yet they all look the same.
They're buying into an image being pushed by a corporation which is just like any other corporation out there. The message is anti-mainstream, but it's still just a way to make money.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I'm not sure if I'm a conformist or not, what do you want me to be?

 

[MajesticMoose]

I'm not sure that you would call me a non-conformist, but i am kinda wierd

 

[SackOfAllTrades]

doesn't answering this poll make you a conformist of sorts? i answered it, i know i conform, it's all good.

 

[Spamela]

i do what i want to do. if that happens to overlap with societal expectations, then i'm viewed as a conformist.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

<< i do what i want to do. if that happens to overlap with societal expectations, then i'm viewed as a conformist. >>



I like your sig. Reminds me of my highschool graduation speech: "when life hands you lemons, throw them at stupid people"

 

[obiwaynekenobi]

<< It seems that it has become more and more popular to be different, to fight conformity and be non traditional, etc. It seems that in a way, through non-conformity, we are conforming.

I have always valued individualism and made a concious effort to avoid conforming "just because" - I like to think that by evaluating each issue I can take my own stance on a case by case basis.
There are certain qualities that set me apart from the mainstream, even apart from the non-conformists.

Anyway, please share your definition of conformity, and whether or not you feel that you conform to society's norms, or whatever. If you are a non-conformist, what do you do to avoid conforming, or does it happen naturally? >>



this was a Problem years ago. I rember when that became the problem. everyone wants to comform to the same style life. But it went the masses started doing things for there own reasosn and not because some other person in another state wanted them too.

Look around you. Now that the Superbowel is over how many people do you see wearing the winning teams s-shirts and so on and so forth it happens every year with everyone on something or other.

Comformity is only really an issue to those who WANT to fit in. I've never really cared if I ever fit in. I've always done things for my amusement. if it happens to amuse someone else. then GREAT. But the whole idea that you have to behave a ceritan way because it's not "proper" or "mature" is BS.

It is true that non-comformity is the" Big thing" but you know what. they are doing it to "fit in" not because it's what they truly want to do.

 

[Zenmervolt]

"If there is anything a nonconformist hates worse than a conformist it's another nonconformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standards of nonconformity." -- Bill Vaughan

^ Probably my favorite quote on the issue. I think that it's just hilarious how all the "nonconformist" socialists on campus are really just conforming to a different group.

I'd have to say that I'm niether conformist nor nonconformist. I just like what I like. I don't ever reject views simpley because they happen to align (or not align) with the views of a certain group. The role of iconoclast is much more enjoyable than the role of the nonconformist.

ZV

 

[obiwaynekenobi]

<<

<< [sings] I want to be like Mike [/sings] >>



I have a sticker that says "when I grow up, I want to be like me" plastered on my monitor.
Which brings me to the topic of Hot Topic. The people who hang out/shop in there seem to think they're non conformists, they consider themselves radical or extreme...and yet they all look the same.
They're buying into an image being pushed by a corporation which is just like any other corporation out there. The message is anti-mainstream, but it's still just a way to make money. >>




See that is what is so funny about this that. I did the whole Gothic thing and You know what? I got more kicks out of by scaring the Sh|t out of people than I did anything else.

and your right the people that go and shop at places like that are doing it because they "want to look different"... how long and how much money does it take for them to realize that in wanting to look "Different" they are all dressing the same.

I wear black style 'combat' boots Black 501's black belt and I own mostly black and white T-Shirts.

Drives my wife nuts. she doesn't think that it's "a proper dress for someone who is married"

But that doens't make sense to me. It never has? what am I supposed to dress in? Dockers and Coller shirts?

And I have a very raw attitude and a strange sense of humor. I have to Curb them both a lot because the "terms of socity" it isn't acceptable. and my wife yells at me for behaving like a miscreant in the grocey story. I have a tenedcy to move things to different sheleves and turn cans upside down and switch product tags with prices listed on them because I get bored.

Like I said before I do things for my enjoyment and my amusment. it annoys the h@ll out of some people but *shrug* it's not for there benifit it's for mine.

 

[tcsenter]

<< tcsenter, in my more formidable years I was a tiger. >>

haha, I just realized what you are referring to. I guess that should have read 'impressionable' years, how I came up with writing 'formidable' I don't know....

<< Sir Fredrick, I wonder if you haven't made the same kind of assumption that tcsenter also seems to make when you say that you are different than non conformists. >>

I never made that assumption. Non-conformity is simply conformity of a different kind. That IS the crux of non-conformity - being different from 'the rest'. Not that you don't 'conform', but to what are you 'conforming'?

So, conformity may on its face be a misnomer, because it doesn't define what is being cast as 'negative' and 'positive'. But, as a matter of common understanding, non-conformity is understood to mean anti-establishment.

The enormous inherent flaw with anti-establishment culture is that they make summary judgements about things for no other reason than because who subscribes to them, making no effort to consider the individual merits of the things they are casting as 'bad'. Anti-establishment culture has no principles of its own, its principles ARE anti 'whatever that person holds'.

It is at its essence the worst form of politics, where a member of one political party takes a particular side of an issue for no other reason than because it is opposite the side taken by his political foe, not because he has carefully considered the merits of the issue or even knows jack about it.

Some bands we listened to ended-up becoming popular, and we stopped listening to them for that reason alone. Instead of judging the band based on its music, we judged the band based on who listened to them. The same was true of clothes, cars, opinions, careers, everything. It didn't take me long to realize how fundamentally stupid that was, thankfully.

Anti-establishment culture is extremely misguided and political at its core because it has no principles of its own. It enables people to misplace anger, frustration, aggression, resentment, etc.

 

[Moonbeam]

tcsenter, when I said to << Sir Fredrick, I wonder if you haven't made the same kind of assumption that tcsenter also seems to make when you say that you are different than non conformists. >>, I was refering to this assumption: "Non-conformity is simply conformity of a different kind."

Non conformity is not a a conformity of a different kind. Conformity of any kind is conformity. A non conformist is what he is without notice of how what he is relates to conformity or non conformity. The big inherent flaw you worry about is a flaw in conformists. A non comformist is simply genuine. It's that quality that is so rare.