poll: AoC vs Constitution

[Anarchist420]

Which do you prefer?

I would do almost anything for the AoC to be reinstated.

All of the "problems" with the AoC weren't really problems. You didn't need a uniform currency (ways around it) and no mandatory taxation was necessary.

Also, slavery would've ended sooner for a few reasons:
No central protection for slavery, and the south wouldn't have needed the free labor because they wouldn't have had to have paid tarriffs and they wouldn't have had to have paid debt twice (Hamilton had the Federal government assume the states debt because the southern states had paid it mostly off, while the northern states hadn't).

[note to mods: You can delete the other thread. Sorry about that.]

 

[Amused]

With the Articles of Confederation the States could and would very well have had a history like much of Europe.

Plus, we would have been 50 weak states rather than one superpower leaving our national resources open for the taking.

The Constitution is fine. The way lawyers and politicians have twisted it is not. It was meant to limit government and secure individual liberty. As it is now, it is doing neither.

 

[ichy]

I'll cut & paste what I said in the other thread:

Sorry, but that sounds like a fantasy. If you want a perfect example of why such a weak central government is a problem I suggest you look at what happened to the Old Swiss Confederation in 1848.

The problem isn't with the Constitution, it's that the United States is becoming less and less of a federal republic where many functions of government are delegated to the states. Instead we look to Washington DC to deal with everything, rather than sticking to the specific duties that the Constitution gave to the feds.

 

[MotF Bane]

The Constitution isn't the problem, it's the people abusing it.

 

[Siddhartha]

Why did they move away from the AoC and go through all the trouble to write and approve to the US Constitution?

 

[Brainonska511]

Do you have any knowledge of history or do you just pull stuff out of your ass?

 

[Moonbeam]

Do you have any knowledge of history or do you just pull stuff out of your ass?

I have discovered that the former is not a requisite for the latter.

 

[Tristicus]

I like Age of Conan. It's fun. I choose that.

:awe:

 

[Anarchist420]

Well, if we're going to keep the Constitution and if we want individual liberty back, then we need a BoR no. 2, as follows:
Amendment 28 Restoration of the Old Republic Amendment 1
14th Amendment repealed.
Amendment 29 Restoration of the Old Republic Amendment 2
Section 1: 16th Amendment is hereby repealed;
Section 2: Congress shall make no law taxing income;
Section 3: Tax revenues are to be submitted to the U.S. Treasury Department by the States.
Section 4: The IRS is hereby abolished
Amendment 30 Restoration of the Old Republic Amendment 3
17th Amendment is hereby repealed; U.S. Senators shall be chosen by State legislatures.
Amendment 31
Section 1: Congress shall make no law regulating Interstate commerce
Section 2: Fugitives from justice shall be extradited to the State in which the crime was committed.
Amendment 32 Sound Money Amendment
Neither a central bank nor the Federal Government shall print, coin, loan, or borrow money.
Amendment 33 Free Market Creativity Amendment
The Federal Government shall not issue patents.
Amendment 34 Secession Amendment
Secession by any State shall be allowed at that State's discretion.
Amendment 35 Executive Power Limitation
No Executive Departments shall exist, except those of War, Treasury, Justice, and State.
Amendment 36 U.S. War Powers Limitation
Section 1: The U.S. shall occupy no foreign nation for more than 2 out of every 17 years
Section 2: A majority no less than 3/4, of both Houses of Congress, shall be required to declare War.
Section 3: The Commander-in-Chief may absolutely veto a Congressional Declaration of War.
Amendment 37 Nullification
States shall have the power to nullify laws which are ruled Constitutional by the general welfare clause

 

[Amused]

I like Age of Conan. It's fun. I choose that.

:awe:

Google failure?

 

[Tristicus]

Google failure?

Are you assuming that I don't know what the Articles of Confederation are or how bad they were?

 

[MotF Bane]

Well, if we're going to keep the Constitution and if we want individual liberty back, then we need a BoR no. 2, as follows:
Amendment 28 Restoration of the Old Republic Amendment 1
14th Amendment repealed.
Amendment 29 Restoration of the Old Republic Amendment 2
Section 1: 16th Amendment is hereby repealed;
Section 2: Congress shall make no law taxing income;
Section 3: Tax revenues are to be submitted to the U.S. Treasury Department by the States.
Section 4: The IRS is hereby abolished
Amendment 30 Restoration of the Old Republic Amendment 3
17th Amendment is hereby repealed; U.S. Senators shall be chosen by State legislatures.
Amendment 31
Section 1: Congress shall make no law regulating Interstate commerce
Section 2: Fugitives from justice shall be extradited to the State in which the crime was committed.
Amendment 32 Sound Money Amendment
Neither a central bank nor the Federal Government shall print, coin, loan, or borrow money.
Amendment 33 Free Market Creativity Amendment
The Federal Government shall not issue patents.
Amendment 34 Secession Amendment
Secession by any State shall be allowed at that State's discretion.
Amendment 35 Executive Power Limitation
No Executive Departments shall exist, except those of War, Treasury, Justice, and State.
Amendment 36 U.S. War Powers Limitation
Section 1: The U.S. shall occupy no foreign nation for more than 2 out of every 17 years
Section 2: A majority no less than 3/4, of both Houses of Congress, shall be required to declare War.
Section 3: The Commander-in-Chief may absolutely veto a Congressional Declaration of War.
Amendment 37 Nullification
States shall have the power to nullify laws which are ruled Constitutional by the general welfare clause

.......are you kidding?

 

[Amused]

Are you assuming that I don't know what the Articles of Confederation are or how bad they were?

I assumed nothing. I asked a question.

 

[K1052]

Which do you prefer?
Also, slavery would've ended sooner for a few reasons:
No central protection for slavery, and the south wouldn't have needed the free labor because they wouldn't have had to have paid tarriffs and they wouldn't have had to have paid debt twice (Hamilton had the Federal government assume the states debt because the southern states had paid it mostly off, while the northern states hadn't).

Any proposition to end slavery would have certainly come up against the same resistance that it did at the Constitutional Convention. They didn't just throw it in there for the hell of it.

The south (Virginia in particular) got a US capital that was in their front yard and debt reductions for passing the Hamilton's assumption plan. Without it the US would today end at the Mississippi river.

 

[Matthiasa]

So you want back something that took not even a decade to fail?

 

[Anarchist420]

The AoC didn't fail.

 

[Tristicus]

The AoC didn't fail.

I'll certainly take your word for it!

 

[PieIsAwesome]

A weak federation of squabbling states. Sounds ripe for conquest.

 

[PottedMeat]

A weak federation of squabbling states. Sounds ripe for conquest FOR CANADA.

:awe:

 

[Matthiasa]

The AoC didn't fail.

Yes because they so didn't feel they had to change it less then a decade after it took effect. I mean were still using it now right?

 

[Schadenfroh]

A weak federation of squabbling states. Sounds ripe for conquest.

Easier to conquer, but more difficult to hold on to once conquered. However, if the republic has been around for a while, it would be difficult to hold on to anyway.

 

[ichy]

A loose confederation of semi-autonomous states simply isn't viable in the age of the modern nation-state. The US would have turned into the EU. A far more viable suggestion would be stricter limits on the power of the federal government to that the US would have remained more of a true federal republic. Make it absolutely clear that things like education, healthcare, social welfare etc are the responsibility of the states. Make sure the federales have the authority to effectively carry out foreign policy, defense and the maintenance of interstate commerce & transportation and leave the rest to more local levels of government.