I'm sure most people will sooner or later realize if anyone on these forums is constantly promoting a certain company (or bashing the other company), and as a result will be less inclined to take a person's advice. That doesnt mean this viral marketing is OK, but just like a virus, it can become ineffective when the "host" develops a resilience to the marketing propaganda. Many of us already know who the Nv evangelists are, and would not be affected by this marketing.
I'm just curious Geo, where you got the information about AEG to begin with. You're post on B3D was a full day before EB's article and seems to have started the ball on a number of sites picking up on this story, including EB, whom I assume took from your post and researched a bit before plopping up their own article. Just curious if you happened to stumble across this on your own or ...
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: Creig
Tried? Yes. True? No. I'll choose terms more carefully so others won't pick them apart
People who receive free hardware from manufacturers in order to spread their opinion of said company are receiving payment for doing so. Therefore they are now employed, in some manner, by that company and their statements in matters related to the products produced by that company or its competitors are now suspect.
To be ethical, a person should be REQUIRED to sign a statement that they will disclose their involvement with the company offering the incentive to anybody who inquires and their identity should be publicly available on the sponsor company's website. Ever been under NDA? I have, and no one forces you to do it. If you don't like the terms, don't sign it, it really is that simple. Ethics are a personal thing so you can decide to be ethical or not by signing the NDA or not. What you suggest sounds like regulation, something I am against from a big goverment perspective. If you mean corporations should do this to be ethical corporations, my only question is, how's the weather in fantasy land?
Proven failure to reveal their involvement when asked would result in withdrawl of the incentive plus a fine.
well said
Are we testing how many "last" I can do? 
Alright, maybe third time will be the charm --talk about me all you like after I'm gone. Just don't ask me more questions, please.
I think if you look at my original post at B3D you'll see Hanners of EB confirming very quickly that he'd heard too. I will tell you (and I'm sure he would confirm) that he and I never discussed this story prior to my original post. I'll also tell you that I don't know who his sources are and he doesn't know who I've talked to before or since the story came out.
And I've heard stuff in confidence both before and since, and unfortunately I'm not only not comfortable sharing those confidences publicly, but I'd also be breaking confidences I gave to do so. So, sorry, I won't tell you who I've talked with about his thing. I felt that website largely spoke for itself quite frankly, and I've heard absolutely nothing since (public or private) to make me think I've gone somewhere irresponsible in raising questions about what is going on here and encouraging AEG and NV to tell us what is going on here.
All I will say is that to the best of my knowledge and belief this did not come to me from ATI. And certainly not directly. I've never had a private conversation with ATI PR before or since up to the current tippity-taps on this post.
Now, really, don't make me come back here and "last" again.
Alright, maybe third time will be the charm --talk about me all you like after I'm gone. Just don't ask me more questions, please.I think if you look at my original post at B3D you'll see Hanners of EB confirming very quickly that he'd heard too. I will tell you (and I'm sure he would confirm) that he and I never discussed this story prior to my original post. I'll also tell you that I don't know who his sources are and he doesn't know who I've talked to before or since the story came out.
And I've heard stuff in confidence both before and since, and unfortunately I'm not only not comfortable sharing those confidences publicly, but I'd also be breaking confidences I gave to do so. So, sorry, I won't tell you who I've talked with about his thing. I felt that website largely spoke for itself quite frankly, and I've heard absolutely nothing since (public or private) to make me think I've gone somewhere irresponsible in raising questions about what is going on here and encouraging AEG and NV to tell us what is going on here.
All I will say is that to the best of my knowledge and belief this did not come to me from ATI. And certainly not directly. I've never had a private conversation with ATI PR before or since up to the current tippity-taps on this post.
Now, really, don't make me come back here and "last" again.
exactly, this is why this isnt such a big deal
id hope that we're all intelligent enough to realise what someone is doing. they may just be fanbois doing it coz they love it, they may be the people who work for AEG. but anyone who constantly pimps one side, flames the other quickly loses my interest in them, i just skip their post in a thread because i know its going to be w@nk.
for instance there are a handful of people here that i think would willingly take a bullet for thei beloved graphics company, wether they are just fanboys, or pedalling for AEG or both.....they get ignore all the same, so it really doesnt have an effect.
but ok, i guess there are some very gullable people in this world, these are the people who will get easily swayed by these (fanboy. AEGboy) people
You guys could look into it and write an article on it perhaps? I wrote about this to the inquirer and while the claim to be the "bad boys" of news delivery, they gave no response, at the likely fear of burning their bridge with nvidia. While plenty are aware of such marketing schemes, a large percentage are completely unaware and these programs are designed specifically to target such individuals.
Why? I mean I could agrue that I am surprised that a Hardware enthusiest forum (geek forum) should be smart enough not to get emtionally involved and that ~57% disaproval seems to be too Large. But I am not going to because I understand most of the points of view here, while some of them are just fanboys looking fling more pooh, I just choose to look at it another way.
I think it's funny a certain someone never ultimately said "no i dont work for X company". They said everything but... Smoke and Mirrors.
They even go as far as to say it's ok.
They even go as far as to say it's ok.
mindless1
Diamond Member
- Aug 11, 2001
- 8,733
- 1,747
- 136
Are you playing devil's advocate or do you lack morality?
Random nonsense, anyone with more than pedestrian video needs might be drawn into the forum...
You must be fairly young, thinking "smart" means lacking emotion. Most of the more productive and intelligent minds of any era are quite emotional and passionate about their work and surroundings. Even so, it is you that bring up "emotion", it came to your mind not mine as a subtopic. One can quite easily disapprove of the acts prompting this topic on a solely intellectual level. A hint- being institutionalized (education?) is a typical reason for your view, may have stripped you of your individualism and trained to be a sterile robot. Once you've been out of that setting long enough you may begin to understand what I mean.
You mean you declare yourself omniscient. It's usually best to leave that to others' judgement, rather than declaring a subjective opinion as more than it is. It also does little good to lump together nondescript groups as "fanboys", as some may in fact have legitimate reasons to disapprove of one company or another. "Fling more pooh" is yet again sufficiently nonsensical to be emotional rather than intellectual, it seems you are very confused about your own understanding of these issues.
All of the AT forum participants with a legitimate communal tie OR an interest in constructive discourse should be opposed to deliberately biased forum participation. It's quite easy to take an intellectual view rather than emotional (if not both) that information exchange be free of deliberate distortion of any kind. Again, it is disturbing that 25% have no problem with this, even moreso than that some apparently can't even understand the basic foundations of intelligent information exchange. What would your education be worth if half of it was just tainted company propaganda? Same applies here, we work together towards constructive ends and this "viral outreach" is a deliberate attempt to undermine that.
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
mindless1: good post. I've been trying to get caught up on this huge thread, and I haven't read all of the posts in here, but I'm glad I read your's. Very well put. I was going to add my $.02, but you pretty much covered it with the last paragraph of your's.
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Topweasel
Originally posted by: apoppin
all we know is that nVidia employs AEG for viral marketing to stealthly "advertise" on our forum. i would/will be just as down on ATI if it became know they had taken this low-road.
i don't see ATI making any kind of an "official" announcement . . . or nVidia for that matter.
How do you know they are currently doing this on the AT forum? Because they may or may not have contacted a forum member awhile ago? A lot of guilty by suspicion going on here (which is funny because that was the name of a movie based around McCarthism).
Secondly Why do you think ATI hasn't Slammed this. Either they don't have a problem with this type of advertising, or they also in fact using this tatic as well and by slamming Nvidia they would create an even bigger backlash if proof ever came out that they were doing the same thing.
No, i don't think ATI has taken this low-road . . . nVidia is COMMITTED to Viral Advertising . . . they ADVERTISE for an in-house Promotions/Viral Marketing Manager . . . i am guessing they are dumping AEG . . . do a Google search . . . No ATI job requests for "Viral Marketing Managers".
ATI doesn't NEED to say anything - they stand - so far - unaccused. otoh, nVidia DOES.
and we KNOW that AEG planted moles here - this is a relatively "important" forum .. . M$ Games glowingly stated there isn't a message board too small or remote to be "neglected" by AEG's "management".
:thumbsdown:
Truth be told..... ATI probably isn't doing this or isn't doing a good job (viral marketing). Heck ATI has always sucked at Marketing. Look at the freaking 9700 launch. They smoked Nvidia hands down and didn't even have any build up to the launch... They make good cards, like Nvidia.... they just have the same deficiancy as AMD, marketing skills.
BTW... I think Anand's forums should add a blurb into their terms of use to open up these shills to permanant banning. These guys are paid advertisers, period!
jeeze . . . nVidia is ADVERTISING for a job of "In-house Viral advertising Promotions Director" . . . how much more "proof" do we need.PROMOTIONS / VIRAL MARKETING MANAGER
nVidia is very committed to Viral marketing
:thumbsdown:
-------------
You mean you "look the other way"
:roll:
Come on apoppin. You know the routine around here. Unless the nvidia marketing director comes on here and starts validating all of this and names off the people under AEG's program, it's all "questionable." I mean why would AEG and nvidia target the forums on easily one of the most popular hardware enthusiast sites on the Internet?
Originally posted by: Zebo
So true..
We've lost a lot of quality posters and technologists because of it. Anyone remember modus? Mods need to bust heads look for quality posts and separate evangelism from fanaticsm somehow.. i don't envy thier task.
Because you have proof that A.) That these "agents" are "prowling" this forum, B.) That these "agents" are the trolls that we rightfully say they are. and proof that they are not C.) Poster that have been and are respected and have after recieving "bribe" have continued to make fair or impartial statements with possibly a little more background information and because of said "bribe" had more experiance with a product by said manufacturer (just Like if you bought a product you can say your experience with it).
If you have proof of any of this please present it, not that I think it would make much difference but I know several people who hate this marketing ploy, and any ammo you can give them would be useful.
Originally posted by: apoppin
jeeze . . . nVidia is ADVERTISING for a job of "In-house Viral advertising Promotions Director" . . . how much more "proof" do we need.PROMOTIONS / VIRAL MARKETING MANAGER
nVidia is very committed to Viral marketing
:thumbsdown:
-------------
You mean you "look the other way"
:roll:
No another way, There are always two reasonable sides to every story, the side I have choosen is opposite from yours, no looking the other way needed.
Originally posted by: Topweasel
Originally posted by: Zebo
So true..
We've lost a lot of quality posters and technologists because of it. Anyone remember modus? Mods need to bust heads look for quality posts and separate evangelism from fanaticsm somehow.. i don't envy thier task.
Because you have proof that A.) That these "agents" are "prowling" this forum, B.) That these "agents" are the trolls that we rightfully say they are. and proof that they are not C.) Poster that have been and are respected and have after recieving "bribe" have continued to make fair or impartial statements with possibly a little more background information and because of said "bribe" had more experiance with a product by said manufacturer (just Like if you bought a product you can say your experience with it).
If you have proof of any of this please present it, not that I think it would make much difference but I know several people who hate this marketing ploy, and any ammo you can give them would be useful.
present it to who?
Not you. It looks like you are hoping nvidia or AEG will 'notice' you and send you are free video card.
:roll:
the proof is there for those who are not "true fanboys" 0r AEG shrills to see:
1) nVidia currently uses AEG's "viral marketing"
2) AEG targets all forums that might use nVidia's products
3) nVidia is hiring an "in House" Promotions/Viral Marketing Manager
Conclusion: nVidia is deeply committed to Viral Marketing on this forum and it stinks to those of us with ethics.
:thumbsdown:
there aren't "two reasonable explanations" . . . ONLY nVidia can give "their side"
Originally posted by: Topweasel
Originally posted by: Zebo
So true..
We've lost a lot of quality posters and technologists because of it. Anyone remember modus? Mods need to bust heads look for quality posts and separate evangelism from fanaticsm somehow.. i don't envy thier task.
Because you have proof that A.) That these "agents" are "prowling" this forum, B.) That these "agents" are the trolls that we rightfully say they are. and proof that they are not C.) Poster that have been and are respected and have after recieving "bribe" have continued to make fair or impartial statements with possibly a little more background information and because of said "bribe" had more experiance with a product by said manufacturer (just Like if you bought a product you can say your experience with it).
If you have proof of any of this please present it, not that I think it would make much difference but I know several people who hate this marketing ploy, and any ammo you can give them would be useful.
Here's some common sense for you:
1. anandtech is a very popular site with a large membership and it's forums consist of a giant online community.
2. nvidia is highly active in their viral marketing programs as clearly indicated by that job posting. http://www.creativeheads.net/JobDetails.aspx?JobID=795
3. Putting 1 and 2 together, this would the ideal site on their list. No need to waste resources on nvnews or other such nvidia enthusiast sites since people there are already your customer base.
4. No one involved is going to blow their own cover. You'd have to quite naive to believe that.
rise
Diamond Member
- Dec 13, 2004
- 9,116
- 46
- 91
so are many companys, like opera. google about and you'll find tons of companys looking for experienced viral marketers.
but as you said before, we don't know the exact nature of their particular startegy.
Originally posted by: RobertR1
Originally posted by: Topweasel
Originally posted by: Zebo
So true..
We've lost a lot of quality posters and technologists because of it. Anyone remember modus? Mods need to bust heads look for quality posts and separate evangelism from fanaticsm somehow.. i don't envy thier task.
Because you have proof that A.) That these "agents" are "prowling" this forum, B.) That these "agents" are the trolls that we rightfully say they are. and proof that they are not C.) Poster that have been and are respected and have after recieving "bribe" have continued to make fair or impartial statements with possibly a little more background information and because of said "bribe" had more experiance with a product by said manufacturer (just Like if you bought a product you can say your experience with it).
If you have proof of any of this please present it, not that I think it would make much difference but I know several people who hate this marketing ploy, and any ammo you can give them would be useful.
Here's some common sense for you:
1. anandtech is a very popular site with a large membership and it's forums consist of a giant online community.
2. nvidia is highly active in their viral marketing programs as clearly indicated by that job posting. http://www.creativeheads.net/JobDetails.aspx?JobID=795
3. Putting 1 and 2 together, this would the ideal site on their list. No need to waste resources on nvnews or other such nvidia enthusiast sites since people there are already your customer base.
4. No one involved is going to blow their own cover. You'd have to quite naive to believe that.
Do You ever listen to yourself talk. You just said AT is big and Nvidia has AEG hard at work, This means they have already have mass AT infection. Thats statement 1 and 2 and statement 3 is the same thing restated as "Putting 1 and 2 together". 4. You say its secretive. Your Making alot of assumtions and conecting dots based on conjecture, and covering up lack of any real proof by saying its secretive silly what do you expect.
While I don't doubt that their maybe a few people presented with gifts by AEG, calling it the cause of exodus on AT is insane when their is no real way of telling if it has "infected" at and the the "infected" people are the ones causing people to leave.
we only have clues about their Viral marketing from what AEG advertises on their site and what nVdia says about them . . . what we DO know from these "clues" is not ethical to most of us.
i still say let AEG or Nvidia come in and "clear" it up . . . or their lawyers. . . . so they are not accidently or deliberately misrepresented.
All I wanna know is why nobody's contacted ME?
Where's the love?
Gimme some hardware and let me post about it.
NAS comes to mind, maybe 2 or 3 tbs? :brokenheart:
Where's the love?
Gimme some hardware and let me post about it.
NAS comes to mind, maybe 2 or 3 tbs? :brokenheart:
That's one of the more ridiculous statements in a thread full of them. What if they don't like the hardware and think it sucks? Would the company "employ" them to say that? The company already believes its stuff is good, and so they put it in the hands of knowlegeable people hoping that they will agree and spread the word. That's all there is to it. If companies were not willing to donate some hardware to get the word out about a product, you'd never read a review again, because most print and webzines run on a profit margin smaller than the amount of truth and reason in this thread.
Oh, and by the way, next time you accept something for free, and we all do from time to time, I assume you will either turn it down, or at worst use it but never mention it to anyone, because your status as an employee of the cheese company that paid the lady in the supermarket makes it unethical for you to comment.
That's why nVidia chose AEG - the "best" in their field . . . again . . . they MONITOR the forums to approach carefully chosen "respected" members . . . those who [obviously] already like the product.
If is was as simple as you claim, there would be full disclosure from nVidia. We would know who they are. Why are they hiding if there is nothing to hide.
How is it that you can speak for nVidia?
:Q
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