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Politics Test

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Originally posted by: Future Shock
Originally posted by: mwtgg
How can some of you people be for social freedoms, but not for the freedom of the market? It boggles my mind.
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Because the freedom of the market sometimes hides or mis-allocates true economic costs to society as a whole. For example, a logging company can get very rich cutting down all the trees in a forest. However, when erosion caused by the lack of those trees leads to the loss of vital nutrients and nothing can ever grow in that forest again, the public at large bears the cost of that, not the logging company.

If I build a coal-fired electrical plant, and put a tall smokestack on it, the sulphuric acid exhuast does not come down near my plant - but states or even countries away. Who should bear the cost of the economic damage that acid does? If it ruins a vast stretch of farm land, should I still be allowed to operate the electrical plant? Strict Ranyian theory says yes - but a more rigorous economic/social calculus says no, because you are not bearing the true cost of the plant into the profitability equations. You have managed to generate revenue, and shifted some or most of the cost onto someone else. Basically, that's considered stealing in most Sunday schools - or any moral system worth mentioning. And it's THAT that results in many with social conciousnesses to have reservations on sheer, unbridled capitalism - because the ONE way to consistently get rich is to make someone else bear the cost of something that benefits you.

These cries of "class envy" should really be cries of "education envy" of those screaming it the most. Rand was an author - not an accomplished economist, either applied or theoretical. In her perfect world, her coal-mining protagonists never destroyed huge tracts of farmland that would never be arable again, nor did her railroad-exec heroines ever run a mainline throught the center of someone else's town and destroy their property via "eminent domain". Because that just wouldn't be the perfect picture of unbridled capitalism that she so wanted to infuse on impressionable, uncritical minds. Hell, I read all of her works myself when I was younger, and loved them...until I started taking upper level business and econ courses, and realized how much of a simpleton she was. A simplistic author for simplistic people trying to look cool...too bad most people reading those pages didn't simply pick up a few good 200/300-level economic texts instead...

Future Shock
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I really weep for our future if this is the kind of crap they are feeding you in schools today.

For all your fatalistic bullsh!t, NONE of that has happened. There is no land logged to the point nothing grows. There is no farmland ruined by the big bad "acid rain."

And eminent domain goes against Rand's principles.

For every phantom ill you see from economic freedom, the social conservative sees the same number of phantom ills from social freedoms.

You're both elitist authoritarian ninnies.
 
You are a

Social Conservative
(35% permissive)


and an...

Economic Liberal
(18% permissive)


You are best described as a:

Totalitarian


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.
 
Ok, after looking up a definition. The above does not describe me at all. Didn't know what a totalitarian actually was, but now that I do - it certainly does not describe me.
 
You are a

Social Moderate
(41% permissive)

and an...

Economic Conservative
(61% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Centrist

You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: chrisms
I always thought I was a libertarian.

You are a

Social Liberal
(83% permissive)


and an...

Economic Moderate
(43% permissive)


You are best described as a:

Strong Democrat
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To be libertarian, you'll need to allow people more economic freedom.

This test has a lot of trick economic questions that appeal to emotion, a false morality and class envy. See past them and retake the test.
Click to expand...

You're right. Iff one thinks social justice is important, for example, that doesn't necessarily mean one wants government welfare.
 
You are a

Social Liberal
(78% permissive)


and an...

Economic Moderate
(56% permissive)


You are best described as a:

Democrat


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc
 
You are a

Social Liberal
(66% permissive)


and an...

Economic Liberal
(21% permissive)


You are best described as a:

Democrat


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.
 
You are a Social Liberal (61% permissive) and an... Economic Conservative (63% permissive)

You are best described as a:Centrist

You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc


That is one of the worst written questionnaires I have ever seen...
 
You are a

Social Moderate
(56% permissive)


and an...

Economic Liberal
(28% permissive)


You are best described as a:

Democrat


Your opinion is worth more
than other people's.
 
You are a

Social Conservative
(31% permissive)

and an...

Economic Conservative
(60% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Republican

You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (-69, 37)
 
Originally posted by: Amused

I really weep for our future if this is the kind of crap they are feeding you in schools today.

For all your fatalistic bullsh!t, NONE of that has happened. There is no land logged to the point nothing grows. There is no farmland ruined by the big bad "acid rain."

And eminent domain goes against Rand's principles.

For every phantom ill you see from economic freedom, the social conservative sees the same number of phantom ills from social freedoms.

You're both elitist authoritarian ninnies.
Click to expand...

What do you mean today? Read my rigs in my sig - having purchased my first PC in 1981 during college I'm older than you most likely...you can call me daddy.

And you have NO fscking clue as to your facts. Read Jared Diamond's latest book "Collapse : How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive" for DETAILED explanations of 8 major civilizations that have been destroyed via over foresting. Diamond is a anthropology professor at USC who's life work is studying the rise and fall of civilizations, and his work is peer reviewed. His cited references will give you about 200 more papers and books for further references should you need them - but the basic facts is that not only has humanity over forested and destroyed simply that forest (see Australia), in REPEATED cases (Easter Island, American Pueblo indians, etc.) deforestation brought down the entire civilization, as wood was a core technical requirement either for producing goods, or in their food chain.

But you are correct in that WE DON'T DO THAT NOW in the US (go to Australia if you would like to see a modern culture that until very recently STILL did that, and has deserts to show for it). And THAT is because of federal regulations preventing over foresting, including limiting the harvesting of old growth forests, mandatory replanting programs, etc. Since my original post was on how someone could be socially libertarian, and yet not a total proponent of unbridled business, I point these types of regulations as a success - business gets what it wants, but the externalities are factored in and the costs are borne by the businesses that created them. EXTERNALITIES was the econ word that I missed from my original post - it involves creating EXTERNAL COSTS from your own profit/loss calculations. In my mind, it IS the role of a central government to ensure that externalities are brought back into the profit/loss calculations of those businesses that are generating them. Hey, if you run a business, and can't deal with the externalities, they you are either a poor businessman (because you don't know how to price your product to include those costs), or a shyster. One or the other. Neither one merits defense.

Future Shock
 
You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.

i'm a socialist i guess. well, its nice to know a test can tell me what i am....
 
couln't help but notice...
seems like everything ends in
"You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness." .....
 
I am a

Social Liberal
(63% permissive)

and an...

Economic Moderate
(50% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Centrist

You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.
 
You are a

Social Liberal
(66% permissive)



and an...

Economic Liberal
(18% permissive)



You are best described as a:


Socialist


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.


I didn't see that coming
 
You are a

Social Moderate
(55% permissive)


and an...

Economic Moderate
(41% permissive)


You are best described as a:

Centrist


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (18, -32)
 
You are a

Social Conservative
(35% permissive)



and an...

Economic Conservative
(73% permissive)



You are best described as a:


Republican


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (-57, 87)
 
You are a

Social Moderate
(43% permissive)


and an...

Economic Conservative
(61% permissive)


You are best described as a:

Centrist
 
You are a

Social Liberal
(63% permissive)



and an...

Economic Moderate
(43% permissive)



You are best described as a:


Centrist


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.
 
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