Politics of Health Care

[1EZduzit]

The last time I checked health insurance costs for me (late 1999) it was almost $800/mo just for me, no spouse or kids. That was for the cheapest plan I could find and I had two differnt insurance agents check out all the plans they could find for me.for me.

I'd imagine it would be around $1500 month to insure just me and it would probably be a very poor plan. Luckily for me I'm healthy..... so far.

 

[bctbct]

I thought you could get single plans for 400-500 per month for catastrophic coverage these days?

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The last time I checked health insurance costs for me (late 1999) it was almost $800/mo just for me, no spouse or kids. That was for the cheapest plan I could find and I had two differnt insurance agents check out all the plans they could find for me.for me.

I'd imagine it would be around $1500 month to insure just me and it would probably be a very poor plan. Luckily for me I'm healthy..... so far.

WOW, how old are you, im only 26.

 

[beyoku]

My solution: Take that 500.o a month and add it to my 401K contribution, take loans everytime i need to go to the doctor......:/

 

[sandorski]

AFAIK, the increased costs in healthcare are largely due to increased costs of Drugs. I'll let the Medical Pros in the thread expand/correct that.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: sandorski
AFAIK, the increased costs in healthcare are largely due to increased costs of Drugs. I'll let the Medical Pros in the thread expand/correct that.

Well just focusing on one part of medication, and that would be med errors....here is a watered down list of references from a literative review I did last year based on quality assurance and medication errors....But you are correct, medication are something like 15% of the cost?? Cant find the exact statistic but medication alone is a staggering amount of money.


Caterino, J.M., Emond, J.A., & Camargo, C.A. (2004). Inappropriate medication administration
to the acute elderly: A nationwide emergency department study, 1992-2000. Journal of
the American Geriatrics Society, 52, 1847-1855.
Currie, V., Harvey, G., West, E., McKenna, H., & Kenney, S. (2005). Relationship between
quality of care, staffing levels, skill mix, and nurse autonomy: Literature review. Journal of Advanced Nursing, 51(1), 73-82.
Grissinger, M.C. & Kelly, K. (2005). Reducing the risk of medication errors in women. Journal
of Women?s Health, 14(1), 61-67.
King, R.L. (2004). Nurses? perception of their pharmacology educational needs. Journal of
Advanced Nursing, 45(4), 392-400.
Meurier, C.E., Vincent, C.A., & Parmar, D.G. (1997). Learning from errors in nursing practice.
Journal of Advanced Nursing, 26, 111-119.
Office of Disease Prevention and Health Promotion and U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services. (2006). Medical product safety. Retrieved March 25, 2006, from
healthypeople.gov/document/html/volume2/17medical.htm#_Toc490970031
Papastrat, K. & Wallace, S. (2003). Teaching baccalaureate nursing students to prevent
medication errors using a problem-based learning approach. Journal of Nursing
Education, 42(10), 459-464.
Polifroni, E.C., McNulty, J., & Allchin, L. (2003). Medication errors: More basic than a system
issue. Journal of Nursing Education, 42(10), 455-458.
Rassin, M., Kanti, T., & Silner, D. (2005). Chronology of medication errors by nurses:
Accumulation of stresses and PTSD symptoms. Issues in Mental Health Nursing, 26, 873-886.
Rooney, J.J., VandenHeuvel, L.N., & Lorenzo, D.K. (2002). Reduce human error: How to
analyze near misses and sentinel events, determine root causes and implement corrective
actions. Quality Progress, 27-36.

 

[dmcowen674]

Majority of votes in poll have no health care so majority of people here in P&N according to the pundits would say those people are all losers and should die off.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I'm surprised so many Americans advocate our system.

I'd take your system over the American system any day of the week.

 

[smack Down]

Just join the ranks of the uninsured and hope for the best 5-10k is way to much to pay for nothing.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I think health care cost have had double digit cost increases almost every year (if not every year) since the late 70's?? Instead of letting illegals in, we should be opening the doors for qualified MD's.

You have been...many Canadian doctors head south for better pay from the private system and better hours. Government run heathcare has caused many of our best doctors to flee the country; I'm surprised so many Americans advocate our system.

Because our concern is for healthcare not pillage the public Treasury to provide exemplary care for some, marginal care for many, and no care for others.

My concern is heathcare too and the number one issue in Canada right now is healthcare. You think the only way to have good healthcare is to put it under the public umbrella, I can tell you this is not the solution.

It is my view that the government should not pay for the rich to receive healthcare they would rather buy on their own. If the rich want to leave waiting lines and encourage private companies to carry more of the burden; good for them. I think people would be thankful to see shorter lines even if it means the others are getting care elsewhere. This would allow private institutions to compete with their American counterparts (brain drain), add more capital investment to the industry and increase quality of care for those in the public system.

With regards to Martin's comments, the cost of healthcare is very much grey. The US might be paying more on drugs and other products/services in which corporations have influenced politicians (as sandorski has pointed out). Also quality of care is another issue; because Americans have choice (Canadians don't), they sometimes choose care well above the standards of Canada. For example...if everyone rides the bus is it going to be the cheapest form of transportation? Yeah, even if it's a nice bus. Fact of the matter is there's a place for the bus, but also cars, luxury cars, etc. Care costs are the same, Americans pay more but they also get more in terms of quality and lower waiting times. Cost will go up for these people (like cars) but that is a price people are willing to pay.

I do not advocate the American system. I do not advocate the Canadian system. Both have major flaws. Personally I'd like to see competition between care givers and insurance providers, government standing up to drug companies (get rid of price fixing, excessive patents and monopolies), private access to care and financial support (both private and publicly funded) for those who cannot afford insurance or care. Why use my tax dollars treating millionaires?

My views are not popular in Canada or with Liberals in the US (the state will save everyone right guys? Look how well run all the public departments are :roll: ) but I am well researched and I focus on practical solutions rather than complaining.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: ayabe
My employer covers most of the costs, I think I pay around $20 +/- a month for just me.

Fixed for me.
Also, fix the poll. There is no <$100/mo. option.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt
My views are not popular in Canada or with Liberals in the US (the state will save everyone right guys? Look how well run all the public departments are :roll: ) but I am well researched and I focus on practical solutions rather than complaining.

I haven't seen any "practical" solutions from you other than keep voting Republicans because the Democrats are evil.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I think health care cost have had double digit cost increases almost every year (if not every year) since the late 70's?? Instead of letting illegals in, we should be opening the doors for qualified MD's.

You have been...many Canadian doctors head south for better pay from the private system and better hours. Government run heathcare has caused many of our best doctors to flee the country; I'm surprised so many Americans advocate our system.

Because our concern is for healthcare not pillage the public Treasury to provide exemplary care for some, marginal care for many, and no care for others.

My concern is heathcare too and the number one issue in Canada right now is healthcare. You think the only way to have good healthcare is to put it under the public umbrella, I can tell you this is not the solution.

It is my view that the government should not pay for the rich to receive healthcare they would rather buy on their own. If the rich want to leave waiting lines and encourage private companies to carry more of the burden; good for them. I think people would be thankful to see shorter lines even if it means the others are getting care elsewhere. This would allow private institutions to compete with their American counterparts (brain drain), add more capital investment to the industry and increase quality of care for those in the public system.

With regards to Martin's comments, the cost of healthcare is very much grey. The US might be paying more on drugs and other products/services in which corporations have influenced politicians (as sandorski has pointed out). Also quality of care is another issue; because Americans have choice (Canadians don't), they sometimes choose care well above the standards of Canada. For example...if everyone rides the bus is it going to be the cheapest form of transportation? Yeah, even if it's a nice bus. Fact of the matter is there's a place for the bus, but also cars, luxury cars, etc. Care costs are the same, Americans pay more but they also get more in terms of quality and lower waiting times. Cost will go up for these people (like cars) but that is a price people are willing to pay.

I do not advocate the American system. I do not advocate the Canadian system. Both have major flaws. Personally I'd like to see competition between care givers and insurance providers, government standing up to drug companies (get rid of price fixing, excessive patents and monopolies), private access to care and financial support (both private and publicly funded) for those who cannot afford insurance or care. Why use my tax dollars treating millionaires?

My views are not popular in Canada or with Liberals in the US (the state will save everyone right guys? Look how well run all the public departments are :roll: ) but I am well researched and I focus on practical solutions rather than complaining.

I'm not sure I see what you're saying. Having boutique clinics/hospitals/retreats is certainly a good idea (it is something I've thought for a while) as it would take business away from the US - doctors and rich people would go to these canadian clinics instead of to the US. But having competition between care givers and insurance providers is the US system and I don't see why that would be good. In the end, ours gives us equal or better results at 2/3rds the cost. Why throw a good thing away?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I think health care cost have had double digit cost increases almost every year (if not every year) since the late 70's?? Instead of letting illegals in, we should be opening the doors for qualified MD's.

You have been...many Canadian doctors head south for better pay from the private system and better hours. Government run heathcare has caused many of our best doctors to flee the country; I'm surprised so many Americans advocate our system.

Because our concern is for healthcare not pillage the public Treasury to provide exemplary care for some, marginal care for many, and no care for others.

My concern is heathcare too and the number one issue in Canada right now is healthcare. You think the only way to have good healthcare is to put it under the public umbrella, I can tell you this is not the solution.

It is my view that the government should not pay for the rich to receive healthcare they would rather buy on their own. If the rich want to leave waiting lines and encourage private companies to carry more of the burden; good for them. I think people would be thankful to see shorter lines even if it means the others are getting care elsewhere. This would allow private institutions to compete with their American counterparts (brain drain), add more capital investment to the industry and increase quality of care for those in the public system.

With regards to Martin's comments, the cost of healthcare is very much grey. The US might be paying more on drugs and other products/services in which corporations have influenced politicians (as sandorski has pointed out). Also quality of care is another issue; because Americans have choice (Canadians don't), they sometimes choose care well above the standards of Canada. For example...if everyone rides the bus is it going to be the cheapest form of transportation? Yeah, even if it's a nice bus. Fact of the matter is there's a place for the bus, but also cars, luxury cars, etc. Care costs are the same, Americans pay more but they also get more in terms of quality and lower waiting times. Cost will go up for these people (like cars) but that is a price people are willing to pay.

I do not advocate the American system. I do not advocate the Canadian system. Both have major flaws. Personally I'd like to see competition between care givers and insurance providers, government standing up to drug companies (get rid of price fixing, excessive patents and monopolies), private access to care and financial support (both private and publicly funded) for those who cannot afford insurance or care. Why use my tax dollars treating millionaires?

My views are not popular in Canada or with Liberals in the US (the state will save everyone right guys? Look how well run all the public departments are :roll: ) but I am well researched and I focus on practical solutions rather than complaining.

I'm not sure I see what you're saying. Having boutique clinics/hospitals/retreats is certainly a good idea (it is something I've thought for a while) as it would take business away from the US - doctors and rich people would go to these canadian clinics instead of to the US. But having competition between care givers and insurance providers is the US system and I don't see why that would be good. In the end, ours gives us equal or better results at 2/3rds the cost. Why throw a good thing away?

Interesting how you are both Canadians yet one hates the Country with a passion and loves the U.S.

I don't understand why he just doesn't leave Canada, give up his Canadian citizenship and live in the U.S. that he loves so dearly.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I think health care cost have had double digit cost increases almost every year (if not every year) since the late 70's?? Instead of letting illegals in, we should be opening the doors for qualified MD's.

You have been...many Canadian doctors head south for better pay from the private system and better hours. Government run heathcare has caused many of our best doctors to flee the country; I'm surprised so many Americans advocate our system.

Because our concern is for healthcare not pillage the public Treasury to provide exemplary care for some, marginal care for many, and no care for others.

My concern is heathcare too and the number one issue in Canada right now is healthcare. You think the only way to have good healthcare is to put it under the public umbrella, I can tell you this is not the solution.

It is my view that the government should not pay for the rich to receive healthcare they would rather buy on their own. If the rich want to leave waiting lines and encourage private companies to carry more of the burden; good for them. I think people would be thankful to see shorter lines even if it means the others are getting care elsewhere. This would allow private institutions to compete with their American counterparts (brain drain), add more capital investment to the industry and increase quality of care for those in the public system.

With regards to Martin's comments, the cost of healthcare is very much grey. The US might be paying more on drugs and other products/services in which corporations have influenced politicians (as sandorski has pointed out). Also quality of care is another issue; because Americans have choice (Canadians don't), they sometimes choose care well above the standards of Canada. For example...if everyone rides the bus is it going to be the cheapest form of transportation? Yeah, even if it's a nice bus. Fact of the matter is there's a place for the bus, but also cars, luxury cars, etc. Care costs are the same, Americans pay more but they also get more in terms of quality and lower waiting times. Cost will go up for these people (like cars) but that is a price people are willing to pay.

I do not advocate the American system. I do not advocate the Canadian system. Both have major flaws. Personally I'd like to see competition between care givers and insurance providers, government standing up to drug companies (get rid of price fixing, excessive patents and monopolies), private access to care and financial support (both private and publicly funded) for those who cannot afford insurance or care. Why use my tax dollars treating millionaires?

My views are not popular in Canada or with Liberals in the US (the state will save everyone right guys? Look how well run all the public departments are :roll: ) but I am well researched and I focus on practical solutions rather than complaining.

I'm not sure I see what you're saying. Having boutique clinics/hospitals/retreats is certainly a good idea (it is something I've thought for a while) as it would take business away from the US - doctors and rich people would go to these canadian clinics instead of to the US. But having competition between care givers and insurance providers is the US system and I don't see why that would be good. In the end, ours gives us equal or better results at 2/3rds the cost. Why throw a good thing away?

Interesting how you are both Canadians yet one hates the Country with a passion and loves the U.S.

I don't understand why he just doesn't leave Canada, give up his Canadian citizenship and live in the U.S. that he loves so dearly.

I've talked to Stunt personally and honestly he doesn't hate Canada, that would honestly be furtherest from the truth I believe. He has a right to dissent and hold his own opinion just as much as you or I do. Hell, I hate the american health care system but yet I'm a health care worker. Does that mean I should not become a nurse? Give up my license?

No.

 

[AreaCode707]

Go find a new job. The company is doing whatever it takes for them to stay competetive and they think this will help. If they wind up losing their talent base because of a poor health care plan, they'll eventually put a better plan in place and cut something else instead because that's what it takes to compete.

 

[Stunt]

Dave,
I would never leave the country just because I have a disagreement with most people; I love my country and I think it has a lot to offer. I would never suggest you leave the US because you do not agree with the majority, why would you suggest this to me? I have never liked the Republican party, I have told you this numerous times. Their foreign policy is far too aggressive, they spend like there's no tomorrow, they tend to be bigotted towards minorities, they are puppets for corporate and special interests, and finally their leader is a complete moron. Do I need to continue? Your ignorance is astounding.

Martin,
I agree the private model of healthcare is similar to the US system, but what I advocate is much much different. All of the Americans on this forum are willing to admit the middle class and above have access to great heathcare (at a price) but where it's lacking is twofold. Access for poor people and Cost control. As we know the healthcare industry in the US is very political keeping prices high on most medical products and employees for that matter (sorry DeathBUA). Instead of giving care (money) to the upper 2/3rds of the population who can afford health insurance coverage, we can fund those who cannot afford it.

To say the Canadian healthcare system is a "good thing" is highly exaggerated and you know it. Most Canadians think healthcare is far too underfunded, lines are much too long and diagnostic equipment not available. Also, you cannot compare healthcare costs from Canada with the US for reasons mentioned earlier. Canadians fool themselves into thinking healthcare in Canada is better because it's cheaper when in actual fact you get lower quality and slower care.

 

[Fasil]

The main reason's heath care is so expensive is americans sence of entitlement. They feel like doctors need to be perfect and if they don't live up to that perfect image they sue them and feel they are entitled to the money. Lawyers feel they are entitled to hugh profits on bending the truth and making big companies pay big for mistakes. Tort reform and education on how medicine is not an exact science along with penalties for lawyers who take on frivilous cases should start to set us back in the right direction.

 

[Fasil]

Another thing I would like to ad is that if we ever went the route of socilazed medicine. the first thing that would happen is most of the good doctors would eiher retire or open private pay for service practices so the only heath care open to the normal person would be crappy and few and far between. We would have to wait forever for anything to be taken care of. Several reasons for this, the med schoold only allow so many in and it hasn't grown for some time and if all the current good docs retire or are private there would be a shortage never before seen in any counrty.