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Politics and religion

P

psteng19

Diamond Member
I haven't really been following up on the latest in politics and the '04 elections, but after watching the Bush speech last night, I noticed he made some religious references to God (Christian).

I was just wondering if there was any relation to religion and politics.
No flames please.

For the purposes of my poll, it will be Christian (whether Catholic or Protestant) vs. all other religions.
 
Originally posted by: psteng19
I haven't really been following up on the latest in politics and the '04 elections, but after watching the Bush speech last night, I noticed he made some religious references to God (Christian).

I was just wondering if there was any relation to religion and politics.
No flames please.

For the purposes of my poll, it will be Christian (whether Catholic or Protestant) vs. all other religions.
Click to expand...

kerry also mentioned religion in his speech.
 
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: psteng19
I haven't really been following up on the latest in politics and the '04 elections, but after watching the Bush speech last night, I noticed he made some religious references to God (Christian).

I was just wondering if there was any relation to religion and politics.
No flames please.

For the purposes of my poll, it will be Christian (whether Catholic or Protestant) vs. all other religions.
Click to expand...

kerry also mentioned religion in his speech.
Click to expand...

How someone can be Catholic and in support of something the church is fundamentally against I will never understand.

This isn't a jab at the left, but it goes for anyone.
 
But Kerry's refusal to engage on faith posed serious problems. A substantial "religion gap" had developed, with people who attend church regularly moving increasingly into the Republican camp. A Time magazine poll showed that only 7 percent of people thought of Kerry as a person of strong faith, a statistic that was feeding the perception of him as a waffler. He was running no better among Catholics than Al Gore did, which, considering he's the first Catholic nominee in 44 years, is pretty amazing?and politically worrisome since Catholics are heavily represented in battleground states like Pennsylvania (30 percent Catholic), New Jersey (45.9 percent), Ohio (28 percent), Michigan (28 percent), Wisconsin (34.4 percent), Minnesota (28.7 percent), and New Hampshire (38.2 percent). And the Bush campaign was hitting "values" hard and brazenly organizing churches to mobilize Republican voters.
Click to expand...
There's a reason most Christians are shifting from supporting him: he doesn't support what they believe. As a Catholic, I know for a fact that he doesn't support what I, nor the Catholic Church, believe. Good read.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
But Kerry's refusal to engage on faith posed serious problems. A substantial "religion gap" had developed, with people who attend church regularly moving increasingly into the Republican camp. A Time magazine poll showed that only 7 percent of people thought of Kerry as a person of strong faith, a statistic that was feeding the perception of him as a waffler. He was running no better among Catholics than Al Gore did, which, considering he's the first Catholic nominee in 44 years, is pretty amazing?and politically worrisome since Catholics are heavily represented in battleground states like Pennsylvania (30 percent Catholic), New Jersey (45.9 percent), Ohio (28 percent), Michigan (28 percent), Wisconsin (34.4 percent), Minnesota (28.7 percent), and New Hampshire (38.2 percent). And the Bush campaign was hitting "values" hard and brazenly organizing churches to mobilize Republican voters.
Click to expand...
There's a reason most Christians are shifting from supporting him: he doesn't support what they believe. As a Catholic, I know for a fact that he doesn't support what I, nor the Catholic Church, believe. Good read.
Click to expand...

Bush supports abortion in case of rape or incest. is that what Catholics believe?
Bush's tax policies disproportionately favor the wealthy. is that what Catholics believe?
Bush displays a profound lack of humility. is that what Catholics believe?
 
Originally posted by: Spamela
Bush supports abortion in case of rape or incest. is that what Catholics believe?
Bush's tax policies disproportionately favor the wealthy. is that what Catholics believe?
Bush displays a profound lack of humility. is that what Catholics believe?
Click to expand...
No, but Bush doesn't claim to be Catholic - Kerry does, and Kerry would not prohibit ANY abortion. I'll choose someone from another religion over a hypocrite from my own in a heartbeat, if the candidate from the other religion supports my views better.

Your theory that Bush's tax policies disproportionately favor the wealthy is asinine, and not supported by fact at all (the richest 2.6% pays 39.6% of the taxes). Your opinion on Bush's humility is your opinion, not fact. Kerry hasn't exactly been humble either, so this is a non-issue.
 
Libertarian and a nominal Christian (Methodist) here. Seperation of church and state and "social values" aren't a hot-button issue for me like they seem to be for the conservatives. I basically agree with the principle but think it gets used in a ham-handed fashion... it wasn't meant to say that your local town shouldn't be able to put up a nativity display at Christmastime or a Menorah during Chanukah. To me that's not "establishment of religion" so long as other religious beliefs have an opportunity to put up a display also, as long as you allow equal access it does not equal an "establishment of religion." Ditto with such things as token references to "God" on our currency and things like that.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Spamela
Bush supports abortion in case of rape or incest. is that what Catholics believe?
Bush's tax policies disproportionately favor the wealthy. is that what Catholics believe?
Bush displays a profound lack of humility. is that what Catholics believe?
Click to expand...
No, but Bush doesn't claim to be Catholic - Kerry does, and Kerry would not prohibit ANY abortion. I'll choose someone from another religion over a hypocrite from my own in a heartbeat, if the candidate from the other religion supports my views better.

Your theory that Bush's tax policies disproportionately favor the wealthy is asinine, and not supported by fact at all (the richest 2.6% pays 39.6% of the taxes). Your opinion on Bush's humility is your opinion, not fact. Kerry hasn't exactly been humble either, so this is a non-issue.
Click to expand...

the highest income earners benefited by far the most from Bush's tax cuts,
but the cuts didn't have to be regressive. so how is it asinine?

Bush is well-known for not admitting mistakes - this is not solely my opinion.

Bush proceeded with a war the Pope called unjust. i assume you're ok with that, too.
 
No, but Bush doesn't claim to be Catholic - Kerry does, and Kerry would not prohibit ANY abortion. I'll choose someone from another religion over a hypocrite from my own in a heartbeat, if the candidate from the other religion supports my views better.
Click to expand...

So Kerry not imposing his religious views on other Americans is bad, but Bush who says he's a christian yet doesn't act like one (he's a hypocrite) is ok? Ugh, you're hopeless.
 
Originally posted by: Spamela
the highest income earners benefited by far the most from Bush's tax cuts,
but the cuts didn't have to be regressive. so how is it asinine?

Bush is well-known for not admitting mistakes - this is not solely my opinion.

Bush proceeded with a war the Pope called unjust. i assume you're ok with that, too.
Click to expand...
True ignorance shining through. The Pope never declared the war unjust, nor is he in a position to do so, since he is not privvy to intelligence regarding the war. The pope stated that anyone who would undertake a preemptive strike such as this bears a grave moral responsibility towards justice.

The tax cuts themselves were regressive, yet taxes remain strongly progressive, that's why it's asinine. The delta is not the same as the whole system.

No one is well-known for admitting mistakes, though Bush has done more in this regard than most - no politician running as an incumbent will readily admit mistakes, and your assertion that they would is false. Your judgment of his character is not factual by any stretch.
 
Originally posted by: kage69
No, but Bush doesn't claim to be Catholic - Kerry does, and Kerry would not prohibit ANY abortion. I'll choose someone from another religion over a hypocrite from my own in a heartbeat, if the candidate from the other religion supports my views better.
Click to expand...

So Kerry not imposing his religious views on other Americans is bad, but Bush who says he's a christian yet doesn't act like one (he's a hypocrite) is ok? Ugh, you're hopeless.
Click to expand...
Too bad this forum software doesn't support ASCII art, because I found a great straw man online. How can you support someone who says he believes one thing (abortion is bad) but actively campaigns to keep it legal? Riddle me this.
 
Cylcowizard:

I'm opposed to abortion as well as all war, poverty, greed, and the moral relativeness of the Republican Party. I oppose giving to the rich when we have so many poor people in this country without proper medical care. The moral high ground is not held by the Republican Party-they are holed up in the leaky basement.

Try St. Francis of Assisi on for size and take another look at America The Beautiful.

-robert
 
Wow, there are nearly as many Republican atheists (5) as Democrat atheists (7). I didn't think it would be that close.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Spamela
the highest income earners benefited by far the most from Bush's tax cuts,
but the cuts didn't have to be regressive. so how is it asinine?

Bush is well-known for not admitting mistakes - this is not solely my opinion.

Bush proceeded with a war the Pope called unjust. i assume you're ok with that, too.
Click to expand...
True ignorance shining through. The Pope never declared the war unjust, nor is he in a position to do so, since he is not privvy to intelligence regarding the war. The pope stated that anyone who would undertake a preemptive strike such as this bears a grave moral responsibility towards justice.

The tax cuts themselves were regressive, yet taxes remain strongly progressive, that's why it's asinine. The delta is not the same as the whole system.

No one is well-known for admitting mistakes, though Bush has done more in this regard than most - no politician running as an incumbent will readily admit mistakes, and your assertion that they would is false. Your judgment of his character is not factual by any stretch.
Click to expand...

where do i start?

here, or here where it states "a preventive war is not morally justified?"
maybe the Pope thought that Iraq didn't meet the "War must be the last resort waged for the goal of peace?" criterion?

"The tax cuts themselves were regressive" - thank you. you'll notice that
i didn't argue that the system wasn't progressive, btw.

i assume Bush won't admit to the series of mistakes that his administration
has made since the litany would be embarrassingly long.
the real tragedy is that he's glacially slow to learn from mistakes.
the war would've been over by now, otherwise.

"True ignorance, asinine" - you certainly know how to win
friends & influence people, don't you?
 
uhhhhh, well I would say I am more Dem. than Rep., but I am Jewish. (Still a Judeo-Christian society, though these guys are TOO Christian sometimes!)
-Elias
 
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