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Political Parties are Killing the United States

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Craig234 said:
You're not the problem. Trying to use rational points with motf is the problem.
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You and karmypolitics have the same issue. Your side is always right, the other side is always wrong. It is you two, and the millions like you, who keep us from making any progress.
 
karmypolitics said:
The fact is that Republicans are to blame b/c Republicans prescriptions are far more radical.

The US has lived with higher tax rates like the Democrats propose. In fact, the US has lived through higher tax rates than what the Democrats propose.

The US has never lived with such steep cuts to government programs, which would be the result of what the Republicans propose. If you want to keep the Bush tax cuts you need to make real cuts to everything including Medicare and Defense. Except every time someone brings them up specifically Republicans will say, "no, we will not cut that". I've watched the debates and that is the pattern that you see.

On a whole I think it is fair to say that Republicans are far more delusional about taxes and spending.
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You are determined to say the other side is more to blame, instead of acknowledging that both of the parties are destructive and trying to move along towards better solutions.
 
I would agree with with the OP. but add that politicians (both parties) have gone from the idea of serving the people to "whats best for me for reelection"

wich has caused some bad things to happen. Now they pandor to company's so they get more donations, bribs etc. When you have company's making far reaching laws that stifle business but protect them. you are going to have issues.

Wich also has lead to that it does not matter what party is in power. the government is going to act the same. Putting business first and forget the people.

A polticians main job is to gain power. Once gotten they rarely give it up. Sure they might give up some if they think in the long term it will give them more. How do they get power? well stay elected. IF they don't get elected? get a good job from a business you were "friendly" to. It also works the other way too. If you notice many in the top business fields end up working in government. Look at the past leaders of Monsanto and the effects.

the state of the goverment is disgusting. It needs to be wiped clean.
 
cubby1223 said:
The problem is we get the same results in Washington regardless of which party representative is elected by a given district.
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Really? When was the last time a Libertarian was voted into office for your district? How about someone from the Constitution party, or the Green Party?

If you want real change, you have to vote like it. And change starts with removing the 2 major political parties.


Craig234 said:
No, it's not. It's the industry misleading voters and funding candidates limiting real choice because the concentration of wealth is so ridiculously high that's the problem causing that.
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Voters have misled themselves into voting for the same 2 parties over and over.

The problem with this nation, is that power is shared between 2 parties. Think about what would happen if 3 or 4 parties cut congress into 3rds or 4ths, so that no one party had control.

Democrats or Republicans think they are going to ramrod a bill through congress, think again, its not going to happen if the party does not have control. If no party has more then 50%, then the power must be shared.
 
Totally agree.

George bush is in office doing all sorts of horrible stuff like lying to get us into a wars that we'll never get out of, all sorts of war time profiteering and actions people in other countries have deemed to be war crimes.

People on the left condemn his actions, and point out how idiotic he is. People on the right praise his actions despite how wrong many of them are.

Enter Barack Obama. Change! or not.

Barack Obama continues Bush era policies and we see just how dumb american people really are when it comes to politics. Here this guy is doing the same shit bush was doing... but guess what?

The people on the right who backed bush go against obama and the people on the left who condemned bush back obama.

If Obama has succeeded at anything, it has been showing those of us intelligent enough to see it that the left/right republican vs democrat BS is just that. It's bullshit.

Really? When was the last time a Libertarian was voted into office for your district? How about someone from the Constitution party, or the Green Party?

If you want real change, you have to vote like it. And change starts with removing the 2 major political parties.
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This is not possible the way things are set up. Look at mainstream media. They're telling people who they can vote for come 2012. On one side you're going to have Obama most likely running un opposed. Then on the other side you'll have whichever idiot the MSM settles on. They change their mind every 2-3 weeks as to who the " front runner " is. Usually after one makes a fool of themselves or gets exposed.
 
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I say it is time for a real change. Everyone who currently is planning on voting for Obama should vote for one of the third parties. Send a strong message!
 
karmypolitics said:
The fact is that Republicans are to blame b/c Republicans prescriptions are far more radical.

The US has lived with higher tax rates like the Democrats propose. In fact, the US has lived through higher tax rates than what the Democrats propose.

The US has never lived with such steep cuts to government programs, which would be the result of what the Republicans propose. If you want to keep the Bush tax cuts you need to make real cuts to everything including Medicare and Defense. Except every time someone brings them up specifically Republicans will say, "no, we will not cut that". I've watched the debates and that is the pattern that you see.

On a whole I think it is fair to say that Republicans are far more delusional about taxes and spending.
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Don't you think it would be more appropriate to look at the situation in terms of the level of revenues and expenditures as a percent of GDP vs historical norms? Saying we can't cut because we've never cut before is circular and artificially limited.
 
airdata said:
This is not possible the way things are set up.
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That is the attitude that is killing the US. Not you personally, but people who think there is no other option.

It is possible, people just have to vote for someone besides the big 2. I do not understand why people vote for the same 2 parties over, and over, and over and over,,,,,.

After obama, I doubt I will ever vote democrat ever again. I have voted for the Libertarian party since the early 1990s and will continue to do so.
 
People have been saying this for decades. We tend to grossly favor our lifetime when assigning the allegation that, "Things are worse than ever."

Shit has been bitterly polarized since the beginning of time.

There's no escaping it as long as you are breathing. May as well get used to it.
 
Do you guys really think voting 3rd party will matter? well with the choices we have? it will be more of the same with a diffrent letter behind the name.

We need real change. not the slogan Obama used. but real change. unfortanatly it wont happen.

meh maybe im just jaded. but i have no faith in the goverment to do whats best for the people of the US,
 
MovingTarget said:
In other news, water is wet, fire is hot, and ketchup goes well on hotdogs...

Although I do like the idea of an electoral college, we need to ditch the winner-take-all method in which it is used. Electoral votes for each state should be divided proportionally. That would be a step in the right direction, but unfortunately not enough unless we take extra steps to divorce money and politics.
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Wouldn't change a damned thing because who we are "allowed" to vote for would still be the same.
 
waggy said:
Do you guys really think voting 3rd party will matter? well with the choices we have? it will be more of the same with a diffrent letter behind the name.

We need real change. not the slogan Obama used. but real change. unfortanatly it wont happen.

meh maybe im just jaded. but i have no faith in the goverment to do whats best for the people of the US,
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Better to vote for a third party candidate you might actually want in office, than vote for the lesser of two evils.
 
The problem is the ideology thinking and the us vs them mentality. Plus many of the people in office do not come to logically correct conclusions. Some are not smart enough to understand and never will, others are blinded by their emotion and what they want to be true.

I really wish I knew of a good way to show people that their thinking is illogical.
 
cybrsage said:
I say it is time for a real change. Everyone who currently is planning on voting for Obama should vote for one of the third parties. Send a strong message!
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What third party?

Ron Paul is running as a republican because he realizes the system is rigged. There are far too many people who are set in stone about voting as a reublican or democrat and think a third party is a wasted vote.

The really sad thing is that these same republicans would sooner vote for an idiot they even know is an idiot before voting for ron paul. I see all these people bashing Ron Paul and then they don't have a candidate they endorse themselves since the field is so weak.
 
airdata said:
What third party?
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There is a HUGE list of them here (around 38 - includes the big two as well):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States

Political Party
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Founded inFormer TitlesInternational AffiliationsAmerica First Party2002American Nazi Party1959World Union of Free Enterprise National SocialistsAmerican Party1969American Populist Party2009American Third Position Party2010America's Independent Party2008Boston Tea Party2006Christian Liberty Party1996American Heritage PartyCitizens Party of the United States2004New American Independent PartyConstitution Party1992U.S. Taxpayers' PartyCommunist Party of the United States of America1919Democratic Party1828Alliance of DemocratsFreedom Socialist Party1966Green Party of the United States2001Global GreensIndependence Party of America2007Independent American Party1998Jefferson Republican Party2006Labor Party1996Libertarian Party1971Modern Whig Party2008National Socialist Movement1974New Union Party*1974Objectivist Party2008Party for Socialism and Liberation2004Peace and Freedom Party1967Populist Party of America2002Prohibition Party1869Raza Unida Party1970Reform Party of the United States of America1995Republican Party1854International Democrat UnionSocialist Action1983Fourth InternationalSocialist Alternative1986Committee for a Workers' InternationalSocialist Equality Party1966Workers LeagueInternational Committee of the Fourth InternationalSocialist Labor Party of America*1876Workingmen's PartySocialist Party USA1973Socialist Workers Party1938Pathfinder tendency (unofficial)United States Marijuana Party2002United States Pirate Party2006Unity Party of America2004Workers World Party1959
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If you want a third party which has actually won seats in Congress, vote Independant.
 
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