Polish death camps now illegal in Poland

[Skyclad1uhm1]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42920934

Put forward by the ruling right-wing Law and Justice Party, the bill would make it a crime to accuse Poles of being complicit in the Holocaust, punishable by up to three years in prison.

President Andrzej Duda has indicated he will likely sign it into law. "There was no participation by Poland or the Polish people as a nation in the Holocaust," he said on Monday.

There is widespread agreement among historians that some Polish citizens did participate in the Holocaust, by betraying, even murdering Polish Jews. But there is disagreement over whether those acts add up to wider Polish complicity — a nuanced historical debate that the Polish government now seeks to legislate.

"This is history as a tool, as a means for a nationalistic government to accuse everyone else of betraying the nation while painting itself as the only true carriers of the Polish flag," said Anita Prazmowska, a professor of Polish history at the London School of Economics (LSE). "It is a blunt instrument."

It was a book that finally forced Poland, in 2000, to reckon with the darker chapters of its past. Neighbours, by historian Jan Gross, told the story of a 1941 pogrom in the village of Jedwabne, where at least 340 Jews were locked in a barn and burned alive by their Polish neighbours. The account was based on interviews with witnesses, murderers, and survivors, and it shocked the country out of a long period of denial.

The fascists that currently rule Poland don't want people to acknowledge the simple fact that a lot of Poles helped the Nazis, not to mention that a lot of them also hated Jews themselves and used that time to kill their Jewish neighbours or sell them to the Nazis.

Like all countries there were a lot of good people (Google Witold Pilecki for example), but also a lot of bad people. And unfortunately that last group survived and is now back in power.

 

[shortylickens]

thats like issuing the recall on a Pinto in 1998.

 

[WHAMPOM]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42920934





The fascists that currently rule Poland don't want people to acknowledge the simple fact that a lot of Poles helped the Nazis, not to mention that a lot of them also hated Jews themselves and used that time to kill their Jewish neighbours or sell them to the Nazis.

Like all countries there were a lot of good people (Google Witold Pilecki for example), but also a lot of bad people. And unfortunately that last group survived and is now back in power.

White washing history happens, do you have an account of the US Pre-WW2 policy of shipping refugee Jews back to German Death Camps? No? You must have been schooled with a bleached white history text.

 

[pmv]

White washing history happens, do you have an account of the US Pre-WW2 policy of shipping refugee Jews back to German Death Camps? No? You must have been schooled with a bleached white history text.

I think the point here is that the Poles are making it a legal obligation to whitewash history. I mean, I only recently learned about the near genocide of American Indians in 19th century California. Generally the US has been very very reluctant to face up to the near-Nazi level crimes it committed on its own soil (historically they did love to try and pretend all the anti-Indian genocide occurred before independence, which is not true at all). And tragically, about half of Brits in some recent survey said they were 'proud' of the British Empire.

But a lack of awareness of your history is still not at the same level as the state making it a legal point-of-principle to not face up to it and a crime to try and examine it.

The EU's inability to do anything about the fact several of its member states are sliding into authoritarianism makes me a bit less depressed about Brexit. Maybe it's not a club one would want to be a member of anyway?

 

[Thebobo]

I think the point here is that the Poles are making it a legal obligation to whitewash history. I mean, I only recently learned about the near genocide of American Indians in 19th century California. Generally the US has been very very reluctant to face up to the near-Nazi level crimes it committed on its own soil (historically they did love to try and pretend all the anti-Indian genocide occurred before independence, which is not true at all). And tragically, about half of Brits in some recent survey said they were 'proud' of the British Empire.

But a lack of awareness of your history is still not at the same level as the state making it a legal point-of-principle to not face up to it and a crime to try and examine it.

The EU's inability to do anything about the fact several of its member states are sliding into authoritarianism makes me a bit less depressed about Brexit. Maybe it's not a club one would want to be a member of anyway?

Yea the USA has a lot to be ashamed about, even currently. What we did to the American indians was pretty bad. Of course what other nations did to the other parts of the Americas were just as bad, humans can really suck.

 

[OutHouse]

Yea the USA has a lot to be ashamed about, even currently. What we did to the American indians was pretty bad. Of course what other nations did to the other parts of the Americas were just as bad, humans can really suck.

yea what the native Americans did to each other was pretty horrific as well but its only bad when whitey does it.

 

[nickqt]

yea what the native Americans did to each other was pretty horrific as well but its only bad when whitey does it.

That you have to equivocate in order to apologize for the US government's policy of genocide against Native Americans is what makes you a fucking scumbag, scumbag.

Thanks for shouting out loud in public how reprehensible you and the conservative movement you enable actually are, scumbag.

 

[pmv]

yea what the native Americans did to each other was pretty horrific as well but its only bad when whitey does it.

Pretty broken moral reasoning you have there. And the self-pitying whinge, with the little passive-aggressive self-directed slur at the end there takes it to a whole other order of pathos (Poor put-upon white guy! Maybe the UN should intervene to save you). Are you a Trump supporter by any chance?

So any crime committed by your nation is to be discounted because other people did bad things at other times?

The organised and deliberate mass murder of over 10,000 people, including women and children slaughtered by gun and knife, was carried out with the endorsement and participation of your government. Just face up to it.

( If you can point to the nation states that have continuity with the native Americans 'who did that to each other' and show me where they pose as global cops bringing the world's evil doers to justice, that would be great.)

Sheesh - I'm not even arguing for the American state to pay reparations, or claiming that it's worse than any other major power. I'm pointing out that these sorts of crimes get brushed under the carpet and ignored by countries that want to think of themselves as the global good guys.

I'm even, in fact, paying the US a back-handed compliment in acknowledging that the US at least allows its historians honestly write about these things (even if much of the population doesn't want to know what they find). What Poland is doing is going a step further.

 

[OutHouse]

That you have to equivocate in order to apologize for the US government's policy of genocide against Native Americans is what makes you a fucking scumbag, scumbag.

Thanks for shouting out loud in public how reprehensible you and the conservative movement you enable actually are, scumbag.

did you stroke out writing that?

 

[OutHouse]

Pretty broken moral reasoning you have there. And the self-pitying whinge, with the little passive-aggressive self-directed slur at the end there takes it to a whole other order of pathos (Poor put-upon white guy! Maybe the UN should intervene to save you). Are you a Trump supporter by any chance?

So any crime committed by your nation is to be discounted because other people did bad things at other times?

The organised and deliberate mass murder of over 10,000 people, including women and children slaughtered by gun and knife, was carried out with the endorsement and participation of your government. Just face up to it.

( If you can point to the nation states that have continuity with the native Americans 'who did that to each other' and show me where they pose as global cops bringing the world's evil doers to justice, that would be great.)

Sheesh - I'm not even arguing for the American state to pay reparations, or claiming that it's worse than any other major power. I'm pointing out that these sorts of crimes get brushed under the carpet and ignored by countries that want to think of themselves as the global good guys.

I'm even, in fact, paying the US a back-handed compliment in acknowledging that the US at least allows its historians honestly write about these things (even if much of the population doesn't want to know what they find). What Poland is doing is going a step further.

my fan base is growing.

 

[nickqt]

did you stroke out writing that?

So, you've got nothing. Thanks for being consistent.

 

[OutHouse]

So, you've got nothing. Thanks for being consistent.

all i did was say something that was 100% factual, if facts upset you get back in your bubble and keep reading Peter Rabbit.

You are the one who went ape shit nutzo and extrapolated all kinds of crazy ass shit about me just for posting facts. lol seek help fool.

 

[nickqt]

all i did was say something that was 100% factual. you are the one who went ape shit nutzo and extrapolated all kinds of crazy ass shit about me just for posting facts. lol seek help fool.

Facts? What facts? You attempted to wave away the US government policy of genocide because, like, Native Americans fought wars with each other and stuff.

That's prime scumbag apologist enabling.

Ape shit nutzo?

Pointing out that apologizing for genocide is what a scumbag does isn't ape shit nutzo. It's calling a scumbag a scumbag.

You're a scumbag for defending genocide. Just embrace it. Strongman Trump, your hero, has embraced it. He lionizes Andrew Jackson, maybe the US President most known for genocide of the Native American people.

Just embrace it and your scumbaggery instead of continuing with your obvious denial and cognitive dissonance.

 

[ch33zw1z]

yea what the native Americans did to each other was pretty horrific as well but its only bad when whitey does it.

And white people killed other white people before coming to someone else's land and nearly eradicating them. Don't let that stop your diversion.

 

[Victorian Gray]

yea what the native Americans did to each other was pretty horrific as well but its only bad when whitey does it.

Vladi loves you and is appreciative that you're doing the work for free.

 

[Jhhnn]

And white people killed other white people before coming to someone else's land and nearly eradicating them. Don't let that stop your diversion.

Indeed. It's unfortunately true that elements of populations all across Nazi occupied Europe were happy to get rid of their Jews. Denmark was a notable exception. That truth simply needs to be acknowledged. Others were forced to go along or they could just go along with the Jews.

Pretending it didn't happen is revisionist history.

 

[OutHouse]

Facts? What facts? You attempted to wave away the US government policy of genocide because, like, Native Americans fought wars with each other and stuff.

so in your bubble, never mind the genocide the natives did to each other... that never happened. Outhouse is a liar.

keep trucking Nutzo.

 

[Jhhnn]

so in your bubble, never mind the genocide the natives did to each other... that never happened. Outhouse is a liar.

keep trucking Nutzo.

Why re you so determined to divert attention away from the revisionist history/ mass indoctrination efforts of the current Polish govt?

 

[nickqt]

so in your bubble, never mind the genocide the natives did to each other... that never happened. Outhouse is a liar.

keep trucking Nutzo.

My bubble?

Look, I realize you're a useful idiot for the oligarchs who have trained you extremely well to be a useful idiot. Everyone here, in fact, sees that you're a useful idiot.

How does that change the fact, that you are apologizing for the official US government policy of genocide and forced removal of Native Americans?

But keep trying to change the argument after loudly and proudling admitting that you're a useful idiot apologizing for a policy of genocide.

You are, like, totally just clobbering the shit out of me, by continuing to loudly and proudly apologize for the US government's official policy of genocide. So much winning!

Keep on truckin' indeed, scumbag / useful idiot. Your masters surely smile watching your bend yourself backwards in an attempt to continue apologizing for genocide.