Either the suspect pulls his gun and gets gunned down, or he gives up. at least in this situation you wouldnt have done anything unnecessary to force a firefight. the suspect would have gotten impatient and finally pulled his "gun" on the officers, or they would have succeeded in convincing him into giving up peacefully.
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
- 48,518
- 223
- 106
Uh...what!? By releasing a K9 unit, they 'forced the suspect to pull his gun'?? You think that LEOs must comply with criminals? I'm sorry buddy, but your brain is backwards.
I can't believe people aren't backing the actions of LAPD. Oh sure -- you're invulnerable and would walk right up to the guy and say 'Hey, drop the gun and get over here so we can cuff you', right?
Whatever, man...read BD2003's post and try to learn something.
that marksmanships was pathetic. I swear they hit the dog before the perp.
the guy brought it upon himself, but regardless of their weapons, their marksmanships was simply unacceptable.
hell, what if the guy had been able to fire a shot off due to their poor aim?
the guy brought it upon himself, but regardless of their weapons, their marksmanships was simply unacceptable.
hell, what if the guy had been able to fire a shot off due to their poor aim?
Number1
Diamond Member
- Feb 24, 2006
- 7,881
- 549
- 126
The police's job is to aprehend the suspect with the minimum amount of force required. Sending an attack dog and shooting the guy 81 times seems a little much don't you think?
Then they airlifted the dog to the vet and never even bothered to check on the poor bastard.
The officers probably did not want to put in overtime that night so they decided to finish the job quickly.
Then they airlifted the dog to the vet and never even bothered to check on the poor bastard.
The officers probably did not want to put in overtime that night so they decided to finish the job quickly.
Aharami
Lifer
- Aug 31, 2001
- 21,205
- 165
- 106
lets put it this way. I went to school for engineering. you can think of that as my training - just as cops go to police academy for their training. Thru my education in college, and work exprience, I have learned how to design and develop applications. Thru their training in the police academy, and real life on duty encounters, the police learn how to act in a high stress situation like the one we're talking about. If I fvukup and cost my company to lose money, I will be canned...doesnt matter what caused me to fvukup. Similarly, if the cops fvukup, and the cops did...they shot an unarmed man 81 times, they should be canned also.
Everyone should be held responsible for their mistakes
Everyone should be held responsible for their mistakes
Next time as an engineer you make a life or death decision that may cost you or others there lives, and have only a split second to make it, ask for a raise and post about it here...
And if everyone should be held responsible for there actions, how about the suspect? It was ultimately his actions and choices that the police were reacting too that led to his own death...
hes dead. if thats not enough for you... well maybe he has some family somewhere that you can shoot 81 times.
FWIW I showed the video to a cop friend today and he said that the situation was a disaster. They had planty of time to set up designated shooters to avoid the free for all, standard procedure.
Do you guys remember Amadou Diallo?
I think around 8 or 9 or so years ago in NYC, the NYPD shot fired many bullets at him while he was unarmed. This is just sad and I think it has to do with poor training and lack of proper judgment. There might be other reasons/motives as well.
I think around 8 or 9 or so years ago in NYC, the NYPD shot fired many bullets at him while he was unarmed. This is just sad and I think it has to do with poor training and lack of proper judgment. There might be other reasons/motives as well.
I comprehended what you said. It makes little difference. You're seriously going to tell me that your reaction is going to be any different, whether or not you can see an object, when a random guy jumps you in a dark alley and tells you he's going to kill you? Thats bullsh*t. You can say that sitting in your chair. You won't be saying that when it happens to you.
Let me ask you something. Have YOU seen the video? The second one, that shows all the context to what happened? You made a post in the first page that said you didnt want to watch it. Have you watched it, or are you really talking all this garbage without actually knowing what youre talking about?
It's proof that a large number of people will have a knee jerk reaction without carefully analyzing what actually took place. It took a good 50 posts before ANYONE realized the video was out of sync with the audio, and that changes EVERYTHING.
And they didnt spray twice. It was continuous. They had to make sure he was incapacitated.
And as far as tazers go, they weren't of use in this situation. If he actually had a gun, tazing could lead to him randomly shooting everywhere. Not to mention he said he'd shoot them if they so much as beanbagged him. And if they missed...that would be even worse. Lethal force was appropriate.
They made sure of that by shooting him before he could shoot. Pointing a gun at someone does not prevent them from shooting back - it's the bullets that come out of your guns that do.
Leaks take time, I suppose. AFAIK, any cases regarding it are over. The only news sources I saw were complete fabrications, that one look at the video completely destroys. One report said they handcuffed him, and then fired upon him, etc. A hoax, certainly not. Thats absurd to even think.
From what I can tell, the police brought the camera. He probably requested it during the negotiations. Thats why he was shouting at the cameraman - "That camera ain't on! Why you trying to play me? If you shoot me now it's on tape."
Ya, there were a LOT of missed shots, but it seems like the 2nd visible shot hit him. But then again, he got hit 81 times (where's the source for that anyway), and you couldnt count 81 dust clouds. But if you look closely, they definitely hit him before the dog even reached the steps.
I still fail to see where it wasn't by the book. The high stress situations they deal with often involve shooting suspects to protect themselves and bystanders. The fact that he was unarmed is irrelevant. He was more than convincing enough that he was. And 81 times? Thats just dramatic. It was obviously the swat team, likely using Mp5s, or something similar. Mp5 shoots at a rate of 800 rounds per minute. 81 shots sounds just about right. They stopped firing a second or two after he hit the ground.
Including the suspect.
It didnt sound like more than two or three guns to me, but other than the dog running into the line of fire, there didnt seem to be any collateral damage.
They most definitely checked on him, with shields and guns drawn. Probably saw he was dead as dead can be, and left him there while the detectives gathered evidence, etc.
The dog on the other hand, was just doing his job. And didn't appear to be shot more than once. It might just be compression artifacts, but it seemed like the dog was moving/twitching.
Ricemarine
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2004
- 10,507
- 0
- 0
It's sad to see life end, be it human or animal.
People keep talking about the sequence of events being: police ask him to drop gun > guy drops gun > police shoot > dog comes in. It looks like there's *maybe* 1/2 second between those events. It looks like what happened was that they released the dog (from off camera) and as the dog was running towards the guy, he swung his arm up to throw the "gun" away and then the police started shooting. Think about it... if some criminal told you he was holding a pistol with 13 bullets in it and that he was going to shoot you(which the perp did), would you wait to see if he was *actually* holding a gun when he swung his arm up or would you shoot him? Most people probably couldn't even make that judgement call in 1/2 second. I mean, he clearly told the officers that he was going to shoot them and that he was ready to die. To me, that means "I don't care about my life and I'm going to try to take a couple of you guys with me when I go."
The police could probably use some more training, but the people who are blaming them for shooting an unarmed man are wrong. The perp could have easily prevented himself and the dog from being killed by just dropping his flip-flop gun and surrendering. Everybody's so quick to jump on the "bash the police" train, but everyone has a double standard. You would complain if the police didn't capture a killer, drug dealer, rapist, armed robber, etc. in your neighborhood, so give them a break for doing a damned hard job and putting their lives on the line every day to try to make the place you live safer.
People keep talking about the sequence of events being: police ask him to drop gun > guy drops gun > police shoot > dog comes in. It looks like there's *maybe* 1/2 second between those events. It looks like what happened was that they released the dog (from off camera) and as the dog was running towards the guy, he swung his arm up to throw the "gun" away and then the police started shooting. Think about it... if some criminal told you he was holding a pistol with 13 bullets in it and that he was going to shoot you(which the perp did), would you wait to see if he was *actually* holding a gun when he swung his arm up or would you shoot him? Most people probably couldn't even make that judgement call in 1/2 second. I mean, he clearly told the officers that he was going to shoot them and that he was ready to die. To me, that means "I don't care about my life and I'm going to try to take a couple of you guys with me when I go."
The police could probably use some more training, but the people who are blaming them for shooting an unarmed man are wrong. The perp could have easily prevented himself and the dog from being killed by just dropping his flip-flop gun and surrendering. Everybody's so quick to jump on the "bash the police" train, but everyone has a double standard. You would complain if the police didn't capture a killer, drug dealer, rapist, armed robber, etc. in your neighborhood, so give them a break for doing a damned hard job and putting their lives on the line every day to try to make the place you live safer.
He also stated that if they let him speak with "Fonda" (the woman holding his baby), he would go peacefully. Seems like a reasonable request to me. It was also obvious that he was much more afraid of the dogs than he was of the police officers.
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