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Police officer shot dead after threatening homeowner

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Don Vito Corleone said:
And the "undue threat to a citizen" was what, exactly?
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Having a gun in his face?

Don Vito Corleone said:
Soooo . . . you're prepared to spend decades of misery in prison, before dying by lethal injection, to protect your dog who is threatened after attacking a police officer? Your priorities are certainly . . . different.
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Incidents of police overstepping, and indiscriminately killing dogs seems to have been on the rise, I've seen a few videos where the animals were clearly NOT attacking, even restrained and they were still killed, a few times in front of the family members, even children, and that is disgusting.

HumblePie said:
~Sensible Post~
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This. In these circumstances the dog owner deserves what he gets, but there are a LOT of times when police murder family members, yes a dog is a family member to many owners, and they deserve what they get when they are hurt for it, but too many times nothing is done about it, and they just get away with it.
 
Don Vito Corleone said:
Soooo . . . you're prepared to spend decades of misery in prison, before dying by lethal injection, to protect your dog who is threatened after attacking a police officer? Your priorities are certainly . . . different.
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And I bet his dog gets put to the pound where it's eventually put sleep as well. Lose lose.
 
Tom said:
You're wrong. Utterly wrong. It's never alright to shoot an officer. It's alright to shoot an imposter, or police who don't identify themselves.

And probable cause isn't required to enter private property, or search a person.

"Facts or circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to suspect that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed"

is sufficient. Now to arrest someone, or to have evidence allowed in a trial, not having probable cause is a reason to challenge.

That has nothing to do with an officer's right to investigate if there's reasonable suspicion.

In this case, if the jackass had pointed his gun at the officers, which is most likely a crime, and then retreated inside, the officers wouldn't have to get a warrant to enter the property and detain him.
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Of course it is right to shoot a cop dead in some cases. Surely nobody would pretend otherwise, I can't believe you really mean it. Example: cop pulls car of for speeding 55 in a 50. Walks up to window shoots driver dead walks to passenger window shoots passenger dead. Walks to back of car, but person. In back shoots cop first.

Anyway, it sounds like this hitcho dude was quite naughty indeed.

Certainly doesn't change any view I have on elevating police lives above others.
 
xj0hnx said:
This. In these circumstances the dog owner deserves what he gets, but there are a LOT of times when police murder family members, yes a dog is a family member to many owners, and they deserve what they get when they are hurt for it, but too many times nothing is done about it, and they just get away with it.
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And that's what courts are for...
 
xj0hnx said:
Having a gun in his face?

Incidents of police overstepping, and indiscriminately killing dogs seems to have been on the rise, I've seen a few videos where the animals were clearly NOT attacking, even restrained and they were still killed, a few times in front of the family members, even children, and that is disgusting.

This. In these circumstances the dog owner deserves what he gets, but there are a LOT of times when police murder family members, yes a dog is a family member to many owners, and they deserve what they get when they are hurt for it, but too many times nothing is done about it, and they just get away with it.
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Nobody involved with this incident had a gun in his face at any time. Even the dogs (who are not citizens by even the most strained application of the word "citizen") were not threatened with a gun - Officer Lasso had a Taser which was pointed straight up in the air when he was fatally shot.
 
I watched a cop out of jurisdiction shoot a stray dog to death in a graveyard with a shotgun and us minors present working there. Should be illegal imo but no one else cared if it was. Bastard aimed his gun right towards me as the dog ran in front of me.
 
gl1h.jpg
 
HeXen said:
I watched a cop out of jurisdiction shoot a stray dog to death in a graveyard with a shotgun and us minors present working there. Should be illegal imo but no one else cared if it was. Bastard aimed his gun right towards me as the dog ran in front of me.
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Some cops love to shoot dogs. It certainly happens quite often.
 
JulesMaximus said:
You really have to ask this question? When cops give you orders you obey them. If they shoot your dogs well, maybe you should have had better control over them in the first place. They're fucking dogs you idiot, not people.

Enjoy your death filthy criminal fuck stick. You deserve it.
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Pick up that can, citizen.
 
JulesMaximus said:
WTF??? :hmm:

Did you really just compare police officers in the US to Nazi soldiers? :biggrin:
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Yes in the fact that both are authority figures sanctioned by the current "government" that is suppose be leading the people of a given country. The Nazi regime is an example of what happens when government goes too far. It's a reminder to ourselves of what can happen if we aren't vigilant.

Cops are humans too. As a group, they are like any other group of humans. They make mistakes and can have bad apples too. They are not above reproach as some in this thread have alluded to. While there are many good, great, and even exceptional police officers there are those which are pretty much the same as the scum they swore to protect average citizens from. Luckily, the story in the OP were not of scummy cops, but of good ones, as far as I can tell, doing their job. It is very sad to hear a good cop died in the line of duty.
 
Londo_Jowo said:
A police officer doesn't have to have a warrant to come on a person property, knock on the door, and attempt to speak with the occupant. They must have a warrant to search the property or home/building.

http://www.volokh.com/2013/09/03/can-police-enter-property-marked-trespassing-signs-take-two/
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The thing is there are different established boundaries for what the police can do.

Your first example is something they can do because basically anyone can do it. Same thing as being allowed to observe things that are in plain sight.

I'm not going to claim to know all the circumstances when a warrant is required.

My issue is that an officer is allowed to enter private property witohut a warrant if they have reasonable suspicion a crime is being commited or has been commited.

Suppose someone grabs a kid who's trick or treating and drags them into their house. The police don't have to get a warrant to go into the house, or get permission from the property owner. And the property owner doesn't have the right to shoot them.

I don't think you'd disagree ?
 
Doppel said:
Of course it is right to shoot a cop dead in some cases. Surely nobody would pretend otherwise, I can't believe you really mean it. Example: cop pulls car of for speeding 55 in a 50. Walks up to window shoots driver dead walks to passenger window shoots passenger dead. Walks to back of car, but person. In back shoots cop first.

Anyway, it sounds like this hitcho dude was quite naughty indeed.

Certainly doesn't change any view I have on elevating police lives above others.
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I'll agree you're correct and I overstated it. If the police are breaking the law as you describe then I'd agree you're right.
 
Well, there's also that slippery slope that all police departments want to avoid with extreme prejudice, where the police realize that they are already heavily besaddled with rules and regs limiting their response options to a given situation and that they don't need any more of them that would render them ineffective toward satisfactorially responding to a situation that threatens lives, especially their own.

Sucks to be a cop, and yes, I have friends and relatives that are police officers and I get to listen in on their many horror stories, when they are legally able to do so.

edit - One common complaint is how they practically need a law degree to do their jobs AND keep IA off their backs.
 
I would like to have a shootout between the police department and the home owner and see who wins. Only losers get domestic disturbance calls, can't control his own dogs, and fires bullets at police officer.

People who have no common sense how to control a situation should not be flaunting a gun. What a loser.
 
Don Vito Corleone said:
How is it he was pointing a gun in the killer's face if he had only a stun gun in his hand when he was murdered? You are taking the word of a mentally ill convicted cop killer over the objective physical evidence. Good luck with that . . .
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There were two officers.
 
HumblePie said:
Yes in the fact that both are authority figures sanctioned by the current "government" that is suppose be leading the people of a given country. The Nazi regime is an example of what happens when government goes too far. It's a reminder to ourselves of what can happen if we aren't vigilant.

Cops are humans too. As a group, they are like any other group of humans. They make mistakes and can have bad apples too. They are not above reproach as some in this thread have alluded to. While there are many good, great, and even exceptional police officers there are those which are pretty much the same as the scum they swore to protect average citizens from. Luckily, the story in the OP were not of scummy cops, but of good ones, as far as I can tell, doing their job. It is very sad to hear a good cop died in the line of duty.
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So, I'm curious, how do YOU decide which cops to shoot? :sneaky:
 
xj0hnx said:
There were two officers.
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The quote about "pointing a gun in my face" is referring to Lasso, who died with nothing but a stun gun in his hands, and who Hitcho shot from behind. Not sure why you're so anxious to defend a man who undisputedly shot a uniformed police officer, armed only with a stun gun, in the back of the head.
 
Don Vito Corleone said:
"Interfere" is one thing. "Shoot a police officer in the back of the head with a shotgun" is something quite different.
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Two parts to this stand out.

1: The only way to interfere with an officer would be deadly force. They are trained and equipped to use it on you, they will not hesitate the moment you appear to be resisting. You must do the same. The moment you chose to disobey, it is life and death.

2: "in the back of the head". Is that supposed to mean something? Anyone making that choice would be wise to get the drop on someone.

You are correct that I will say that even torturing dogs (which does not in any way resemble what happened here) would not justify murdering a police officer or anyone else.
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Yeah, I kind of figured you wouldn't know of any exception. Cause there wouldn't be. That troubles me.

The fact that you are resorting to such an absurd hypothetical (the torture of a dog) is a tell regarding the weakness of your position under the actual facts of this case.
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The man, Hitcho, is certainly questionable. However, as I've stated - I'd protect my family by any means necessary. I reached for an absurd scenario to highlight how there's no morality under the law. That they could do the worst thing imaginable and you are expected to sit idly by and obey. To let torture happen.

You and Spidey (er, I mean SpatiallyAware) are positing entirely alternative realities in order to reach the conclusion that Hitcho is some kind of heroic figure for sticking up to the big, bad police. What he actually is, is a cop killer who deserves to be, and has been, convicted of first-degree murder.
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I cannot agree with first degree murder. Being agressed upon and threats made is clearly not cold blooded murder. It was not intended nor planned before the exchange began. This is a technicality to elevate authority above us plebs. To force us to be passive in the face of an immoral law that'd allow even worse atrocities than straight out murder of family pets.

I do not know all the exact details of this case. I'm actually on the fence after hearing some of it, even as upset as I was at first, but I know where I stand generally and especially with regards to me and my own.

I'm still quite upset over the standard policy. In which these situations are forced to play out in the first place. I challenge the reason for such aggression as displayed here, where life and death situations are forced upon people who'd be happier left alone.
 
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HumblePie said:
So to surmise, the scenario that happened based from the OP's article was Hitcho was completely in the wrong. But there are situations that could have happened where shooting an officer is not wrong.
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I appreciate the distinctions and have moved from standing by Hitcho to instead addressing the general ideas present in this case. I do feel bad for the officer, for Hitcho and his dogs.

Such life and death situations where police aggression leads to shootings do not have to happen. That is what is most upsetting to me and I will continue to persist that they need not happen. That these situations can be avoided with better policy.
 
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