Police officer allowed to take your ID?

[phisher4]

So here's a strange situation: My GF and I were parked outside my apartment building for about 15-20 minutes talking (yes, just talking), and a police officer was called since someone felt that we were 'suspicious' to be parked with our engine and lights occasionally running (because it's a little cold). Marginally understandable. But what burns me is this: the cop that showed up asked for our IDs. I explained that I lived in the building, and she was welcome to *see* -- but not have -- my ID (which showed that I lived in the building).

So I show it to her, and she grabs it. I fight with her for a second, saying she doesn't have permission to *have* my ID, but but she pulled harder and ripped the ID from my hand. She then went back to her police cruiser and presumably ran my license number (which is clean) and returned my ID.

So is this legal? (and what do you think about this?)

My concern is that even though I'm a law-abiding citizen -- what if I forgot to pay a traffic ticket? Or if there was a mistake in the database? Or my name (which is relatively common), was confused with someone else that *did* have a warrant?

(and I live in Michigan, by the way, in case this changes anything)

Cliffs:

Police officer took my ID from me for no reason, without my permission -- is this legal?

Thanks as always anandtech!

 

[ric1287]

they could get the same information from you license plate + car registration.

 

[Scouzer]

Oh come on. BFD. Pick your battles.

Police had probable cause--someone thought you looked suspicious, which you probably did.

 

[Ronstang]

The ID is issued by the State and actually belongs to them not you. The police officer is an agent of the state. Totally legal.

 

[phisher4]

Originally posted by: ric1287
they could get the same information from you license plate + car registration.

It was my GF's car -- who does not live in the building. Her license plate is registered to a different address.

So the officer needed to see (key word: see) my ID to see that I lived there.

 

[jlee]

Police officer took my ID from me for no reason, without my permission -- is this legal?

Wrong. You were occupying a suspicious vehicle. Yes, it is legal. I don't know of any states that do not require the operator of a motor vehicle to provide his/her driver's license on demand of a law enforcement officer while being detained.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: ric1287
they could get the same information from you license plate + car registration.

Or not.

Originally posted by: phisher4
It was my GF's car -- who does not live in the building. Her license plate is registered to a different address.

So the officer needed to see (key word: see) my ID to see that I lived there.

 

[tranceport]

Lucky you didn't get tazed for "fight with her for a second". 🙂

I would say it is perfectly legal. No state issued ID and they can hold you until they find out who you are I'd be willing to bet...

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: phisher4
It was my GF's car -- who does not live in the building. Her license plate is registered to a different address.

So the officer needed to see (key word: see) my ID to see that I lived there.

all the more reason not to wage a battle for your stupid ID.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: ric1287
they could get the same information from you license plate + car registration.

It was my GF's car -- who does not live in the building. Her license plate is registered to a different address.

So the officer needed to see (key word: see) my ID to see that I lived there.

You needed to give it to her.

Hopefully you'll get smarter with time.

 

[phisher4]

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Oh come on. BFD. Pick your battles.

Police had probable cause--someone thought you looked suspicious, which you probably did.

So what defines suspicious?

If you're wearing a turban?

If you speak Arabic?

etc. etc. etc.

And isn't any marginal 'suspicion' dispelled once you show the officer your ID showing that you live in the building?

 

[Perknose]

Get CasioTech to write a complaint letter for you.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Oh come on. BFD. Pick your battles.

Police had probable cause--someone thought you looked suspicious, which you probably did.

So what defines suspicious?

If you're wearing a turban?

If you speak Arabic?

etc. etc. etc.

If you're sitting in a vehicle for an extended period of time, and the vehicle's registration does not match the address where it is located.

Articulable/reasonable suspicion is facts/circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime may have been or may be committed. The car obviously didn't belong there. It was there for an unreasonable amount of time, warranting further investigation. Your lack of cooperation (physical resistance, even) with a lawful order is grounds for further detention/investigation.

Originally posted by: phisher4
And isn't any marginal 'suspicion' dispelled once you show the officer your ID showing that you live in the building?

As I already said, chances are that your state requires you to provide your driver's license, upon request, to a police officer. You did not comply. Technically, you could be arrested (in my state) for disorderly conduct / failure to comply with a lawful order.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Oh come on. BFD. Pick your battles.

Police had probable cause--someone thought you looked suspicious, which you probably did.

So what defines suspicious?

If you're wearing a turban?

If you speak Arabic?

etc. etc. etc.

And isn't any marginal 'suspicion' dispelled once you show the officer your ID showing that you live in the building?

Or a neighbor watching an unfamiliar car sit in by the building running late at night

 

[phisher4]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Oh come on. BFD. Pick your battles.

Police had probable cause--someone thought you looked suspicious, which you probably did.

So what defines suspicious?

If you're wearing a turban?

If you speak Arabic?

etc. etc. etc.

And isn't any marginal 'suspicion' dispelled once you show the officer your ID showing that you live in the building?

Or a neighbor watching an unfamiliar car sit in by the building running late at night

Actually I don't completely disagree with the call that the neighbor made. We were a *little* suspicious.

But after seeing that I live in the building, I hardly see why I'm supposed to submit to a database search.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Oh come on. BFD. Pick your battles.

Police had probable cause--someone thought you looked suspicious, which you probably did.

So what defines suspicious?

If you're wearing a turban?

If you speak Arabic?

etc. etc. etc.

And isn't any marginal 'suspicion' dispelled once you show the officer your ID showing that you live in the building?

Or a neighbor watching an unfamiliar car sit in by the building running late at night

Actually I don't completely disagree with the call. We were a little suspicious.

But after seeing that I live in the building, I hardly see why I'm supposed to submit to a database search.

You do realize that in such circumstances, it is entirely normal (and possibly policy) to record your name/DOB.

Just because you live there doesn't mean you're automatically okay. What if a burglary was reported later that night, and the officer didn't have your info? What if you did have a warrant? If you stop being suspicious, you won't be detained anymore. Go talk inside...or just have a shred of decency and stop giving the cops a hard time for doing their job.

 

[Baked]

OP must be 15 1/2. You're lucky the cop didn't throw a grenade in your car for acting like a fool.

 

[ric1287]

I never understood why some people are willing to fight to the death before surrendering an ID. You are not logged into some secret database where they track your every move, and with the time people put into "fighting the man" both people could have been on their way. Baffles me.

There's also these things known as fake ID's, and running them will prove who you are. You should see how many different names a 'regular' will give the police, running an ID gives a list of other aliases they gave at some point.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Baked
OP must be 15 1/2. You're lucky the cop didn't throw a grenade in your car for acting like a fool.

OP also needs to learn that during a traffic stop / detention, he is not the one controlling the situation..

 

[phisher4]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Oh come on. BFD. Pick your battles.

Police had probable cause--someone thought you looked suspicious, which you probably did.

So what defines suspicious?

If you're wearing a turban?

If you speak Arabic?

etc. etc. etc.

And isn't any marginal 'suspicion' dispelled once you show the officer your ID showing that you live in the building?

Or a neighbor watching an unfamiliar car sit in by the building running late at night

Actually I don't completely disagree with the call. We were a little suspicious.

But after seeing that I live in the building, I hardly see why I'm supposed to submit to a database search.

You do realize that in such circumstances, it is entirely normal (and possibly policy) to record your name/DOB.

Just because you live there doesn't mean you're automatically okay. What if a burglary was reported later that night, and the officer didn't have your info? What if you did have a warrant? If you stop being suspicious, you won't be detained anymore. Go talk inside...or just have a shred of decency and stop giving the cops a hard time for doing their job.

I totally understand that they're doing their job. I just have a huge problem with the argument "if you have nothing to hide, you should completely cooperate with the police."

There are many, MANY problems with this argument (some of which I outlined on my original post). Are there no civil libertarians on this board?

Really, though -- I'm interested in knowing whether this is *legal*.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: phisher4

Originally posted by: Scouzer
Oh come on. BFD. Pick your battles.

Police had probable cause--someone thought you looked suspicious, which you probably did.

So what defines suspicious?

If you're wearing a turban?

If you speak Arabic?

etc. etc. etc.

And isn't any marginal 'suspicion' dispelled once you show the officer your ID showing that you live in the building?

Or a neighbor watching an unfamiliar car sit in by the building running late at night

Actually I don't completely disagree with the call. We were a little suspicious.

But after seeing that I live in the building, I hardly see why I'm supposed to submit to a database search.

You do realize that in such circumstances, it is entirely normal (and possibly policy) to record your name/DOB.

Just because you live there doesn't mean you're automatically okay. What if a burglary was reported later that night, and the officer didn't have your info? What if you did have a warrant? If you stop being suspicious, you won't be detained anymore. Go talk inside...or just have a shred of decency and stop giving the cops a hard time for doing their job.

I totally understand that they're doing their job.

I just have a huge problem with the argument "if you have nothing to hide, you should completely cooperate with the police."

There are many, MANY problems with this argument (some of which I outlined on my original post).

You were being detained while a report of a suspicious person was investigated. There are no problems with my argument, and you do not have a leg to stand on. Don't try to pull anything else into this discussion.

Really, though -- I'm interested in knowing whether this is *legal*.

Did I not answer your question?

Edit: Civil libertarians? LOL...you're worse than I thought..this wasn't exactly a random ID check..

 

[biggestmuff]

Good grief. Grow a sack. Are you 8 years old? "I said you could see it, not take it."

 

[FallenHero]

LOL at OP.

OP sounds like a new college student who took 1 course of "constitutional law" in HS and now has a hardon for the stuff.

OP, you were being suspicious. The officer has a duty to investigate the report and if necessary, take action. Failure to provide a form of identification (be it a state issued ID, school ID, or providing your name/DOB to the officer) could result in a charge of obstruction of justice...over what? You're inability to pick your battles wisely? You're inability to understand that the officer needs to follow certain steps in order to say that nothing more was going on?

jesus man...grow up. Its not an argument of "nothing to hide." Its an argument of a report was made, the officer is investigating, and that is it. You could have very easily been arrested over NOTHING because you have the mentality of a 12 year old.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: phisher4
So I show it to her, and she grabs it. I fight with her for a second, saying she doesn't have permission to *have* my ID, but but she pulled harder and ripped the ID from my hand.

OP, you are damn lucky your incredible ignornace of the law didn't cause you more problems. Grow the fuck up.

 

[phisher4]

Ya know what? I'm starting to think you folks are right.

I'm tired, cranky, and a little pissed that the cops were called.

But I'm overreacting.

I needed an anandtech check.