Police mace the hell out of peaceful OWS protesters

[Paul98]

pigs are just a bunch of thugs and scum of the earth.

well maybe i shouldn't go that far, much of the problem is the lack of training, accountability, and how it's setup. What we really need is a smaller better trained and screened police force that can actually deal with people.

 

[jlee]

pigs are just a bunch of thugs and scum of the earth.

But without pigs, we would have no bacon. And that would be sad. 🙁

 

[Paul98]

But without pigs, we would have no bacon. And that would be sad. 🙁

now that is a world I wouldn't want to live in, mmmmm bacon

 

[Ichinisan]

What training do you have that qualifies you to make such a statement? Or is this merely your layman's opinion?

I haven't watched the video so I'm not going to have an opinion on the matter of the OP, but that's utter nonsense.

Common sense says that pepper spray is an acceptable way to repel a crowd. That's it's only practical purpose.

 

[sactoking]

The UC Davis incident had nothing to do with OWS. They were protesting rising tuition costs. I suspect many of the horribly ill informed conservatives (yeah, that is redundant) would not be so condemning if they knew this little fact.

Then the students were stupid for calling themselves "Occupy Davis". Don't want the negative association? Don't steal the name.

 

[yhelothar]

I think he is referring to the tuition increase. CA public school, and particularly the UC System, has seen a consistent and rapid increase in tuition over the years.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/pf/college/1110/gallery.tuition_increase/index.html

CA is leading the charge in tuition hikes.

And that's none-other than a result of the financial crisis that was a consequence of what happened at Wall St. in 2008.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Then the students were stupid for calling themselves "Occupy Davis". Don't want the negative association? Don't steal the name.

I'll say it again: the content of their speech, as long as its not illegal, is irrelevant.

 

[DayLaPaul]

What training do you have that qualifies you to make such a statement? Or is this merely your layman's opinion?

I haven't watched the video so I'm not going to have an opinion on the matter of the OP, but that's utter nonsense.

Duh, he's a ninja!

 

[MotionMan]

Like I said, go right for the spray and be prepared for the shit storm. Again, that's just from my perspective that a showing of resistance justifies the response.

I have no doubt that even if they had given the protesters some tugs, then went for the spray, nothing would be different in the reaction.

I don't think it's really that simple. If it were, no officer would be on admin leave. As a law enforcement officer, being put on admin leave is a pretty big deal. Clearly, the admin did not agree with the response to some extent.

I disagree. I think it is a way for the administration to deflect the outcry, at least temporarily. Someone is going to lose a job over this, and the admins do not want it to be them. I fully expect a cop to (wrongly) lose his job.

MotionMan

 

[Corporate Thug]

I doubt anyone is going to lose their jobs Motion Man...removing a public servant from employment is CA is damn near impossible with the civil service protections. I've dealt with cops who've done far worse and got away with 30 day suspensions or less.

 

[DCal430]

Those of you who think it was ok to pepper spray those students at point bank range, would you be fine if the police used water cannon or fire hose on those protesters instead?

 

[Corporate Thug]

I have no doubt that even if they had given the protesters some tugs, then went for the spray, nothing would be different in the reaction.



I disagree. I think it is a way for the administration to deflect the outcry, at least temporarily. Someone is going to lose a job over this, and the admins do not want it to be them. I fully expect a cop to (wrongly) lose his job.

MotionMan

I guess we have to agree to disagree then.

I just think its more compelling for the cop to say "Look, we told to group to leave and they wouldn't. Then we tried to separate them to effect an arrest on them individually but they wouldn't budge. At that point, we had to use the least effective amount of force to effectively make them disburse, which was pepper spray" rather than "Look, we told to group to leave and they wouldn't. At that point, we had to use the least effective amount of force to effectively make them disburse, which was pepper spray"

 

[MotionMan]

Those of you who think it was ok to pepper spray those students at point bank range, would you be fine if the police used water cannon or fire hose on those protesters instead?

That is more likely to cause physical harm, so, no.

MotionMan

 

[jlee]

Common sense says that pepper spray is an acceptable way to repel a crowd. That's it's only practical purpose.

What about a guy who just kicked a window out of a cruiser from the inside and then refuses to come back out?

Been there. I just doubled your practical purposes. Shall I continue, or shall logic prevail?

 

[MotionMan]

I guess we have to agree to disagree then.

I just think its more compelling for the cop to say "Look, we told to group to leave and they wouldn't. Then we tried to separate them to effect an arrest on them individually but they wouldn't budge. At that point, we had to use the least effective amount of force to effectively make them disburse, which was pepper spray" rather than "Look, we told to group to leave and they wouldn't. At that point, we had to use the least effective amount of force to effectively make them disburse, which was pepper spray"

You honestly believe that the reaction would have been any different if they had tugged on the protestors before spraying them? Really?

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Common sense says that pepper spray is an acceptable way to repel a crowd. That's it's only practical purpose.

Seemed to work pretty well to cause people to unlock their arms.

😉

MotionMan

 

[jlee]

You honestly believe that the reaction would have been any different if they had tugged on the protestors before spraying them? Really?

MotionMan

The reaction would then be "Why can't big strong highly trained police officers pull people apart when they're simply holding onto each other? It can't be that hard!"

😛

 

[MotionMan]

The reaction would then be "Why can't big strong highly trained police officers pull people apart when they're simply holding onto each other? It can't be that hard!"

😛

Right. Until they pull hard enough to injure someone.

MotionMan

 

[Corporate Thug]

You honestly believe that the reaction would have been any different if they had tugged on the protestors before spraying them? Really?

MotionMan

Yes, I do. At least my reaction would have been different. It shows an escalation of force. It's an easier sell. BTW, if you watch the video, there is a good amount of pulling and tugging AFTER the pepper spray so the risk of injury argument is moot.

Remember the taser incident at the university of florida? TWO officers grabbed the student and attempted to escort the student out of the hall; the student started to get aggressive; showed no sign of calming down; continued to resist arrest; etc. They had to resort to the taser when nothing else worked and the student obviously showed no sign of cooperation. Nothing wrong with that. The officers escalated their response to match that of the students.

I look at the UF video and think "proper response;" not so with the Davis video.

I really wouldn't be surprised if this ends up in a lawsuit...

BTW, there was a protest on Saturday night against the Chancellor. Funny how no cops were around and nobody was complaining about their protest on the school premises or attempting to enforce time/place/manner restrictions when the national spot line in on them huh? Also, the Chancellor apologized to the school, pretty much admitting that they F***ed up. Again, the Chancellor, who ordered to removal, apologized for how things went down. They are admitting liability here!

 

[sandorski]

Right. I get that. But since that is clearly wrong (I asked a lawyer about it), I am wondering how the protesters should have been removed.

MotionMan

Picked up and moved. I don't see how you can even ask this question. 😵

 

[olds]

Picked up and moved. I don't see how you can even ask this question. 😵

Picked up with what, a crane?

 

[Bignate603]

Picked up and moved. I don't see how you can even ask this question. 😵

Have a couple people lock arms and then try to pull them apart without hurting them. It's very hard and no matter how careful you are you're going to bang the person up a bit, people don't have handles.

 

[airdata]

Originally Posted by MotionMan
You honestly believe that the reaction would have been any different if they had tugged on the protestors before spraying them? Really?

MotionMan

If they did it like civil police officers. We've seen countless cases over the past 2 months of police showing that they are not fit for duty.

I'm sure they don't have any problems when they're sitting in their car for 10 hours drinking coffee and eating donuts with no real work to do. This was a huge test for police and alot of them have simply failed.

It's really funny though because even in clear examples of police officers being in the wrong, people still support them and pretend they can do no wrong.

 

[twinrider1]

Yes, I do. At least my reaction would have been different. It shows an escalation of force. It's an easier sell...

With this I agree. Again, I don't know that department's continuum of force policy. But even if they were permitted to go straight to pepper spray, it would have been better PR.
Also, I would think they police would have had an officer videotaping the situation. We don't know what led up to the incident and 30 seconds of video could clear up the whole thing...one way or another.
Ultimately, I don't get the drama. Either they followed policy or they didn't.

 

[dougp]

If they did it like civil police officers. We've seen countless cases over the past 2 months of police showing that they are not fit for duty.

I'm sure they don't have any problems when they're sitting in their car for 10 hours drinking coffee and eating donuts with no real work to do. This was a huge test for police and alot of them have simply failed.

It's really funny though because even in clear examples of police officers being in the wrong, people still support them and pretend they can do no wrong.

So, you generalize LEO's like the media generalizes OWS.