Police mace the hell out of peaceful OWS protesters

[MotionMan]

It's a CA public school...they can't "not allow it."

Don't you need to get permits to use portions of public college campuses for events?

MotionMan

 

[Lifted]

Serious question: In the first video, do we know that the cops did not try to remove them and the protesters refused to unlock arms to allow their removal?

MotionMan

No, but this is a SandEagle thread, so the police must be wrong.

 

[Newbian]

Serious question: In the first video, do we know that the cops did not try to remove them and the protesters refused to unlock arms to allow their removal?

MotionMan

The problem is it looks like the video was edited to only show what the police did and not what the protesters were doing and assaulting people it sounds like.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Don't you need to get permits to use portions of public college campuses for events?

MotionMan

depends on the campus/size of the "event."

But take a look at Education Code 66301:
(a) Neither the Regents of the University of California, the Trustees of the California State University, the governing board of a community college district, nor an administrator of any campus of those institutions, shall make or enforce a rule subjecting a student to disciplinary sanction solely on the basis of conduct that is speech or other communication that, when engaged in outside a campus of those institutions, is protected from governmental restriction by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution or Section 2 of Article I of the California Constitution.

 

[Corporate Thug]

The problem is it looks like the video was edited to only show what the police did and not what the protesters were doing and assaulting people it sounds like.

This is true. There is a 8 min video as well but it starts from the spraying so it's doesn't do much. I'm sure there are videos out there that the students will slowly come to surface. Without seeing anything more, there did not seem to be an imminent threat at the time of the spraying.

 

[Herr Kutz]

The problem is it looks like the video was edited to only show what the police did and not what the protesters were doing and assaulting people it sounds like.

That video is presented by RT, which according to Wikipedia...

"RT, previously known as Russia Today, is a global multilingual television news network based in the Russian Federation run by RIA Novosti."

"RT America It focuses on covering the Americas from an international and Russian perspective. Currently only broadcasts in the afternoon and evening. Based in RT's Washington, DC Bureau, RT America also has studios in New York, Miami and Los Angeles.[12]"


And now you know why it was edited in such a way.

 

[Newbian]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I know exactly what limits there are to speech on public universities in CA. There is a very specific standard for free speech on university campuses, and its different than that of "state owned" land or "public property."

I never put words in your mouth.

You said it yourself:

the video is on state property, in other words, public property,

So you said they are the same thing when they are not.

 

[Ichinisan]

Haven't watched yet. If they were refusing to leave when ordered, I think that's what the mace / pepper spray is SUPPOSED to be used for.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I don't get why lot of US cops use force even when there's no threat. It's completely unneeded. They could have simply asked them to leave and threaten to use force if they don't listen, but no, they always have to go straight to using force. Though guess it's better than tasering them or shooting them, like some other similar news stories go. And from that video, there was no macing, though the video does not really show everything.

From what I hear pepper spray is VERY painful so that's probably almost as bad as being tasered.

Though, as much as I support lot of the points of the OWS protesters, I don't think what they're doing will have any effect whatsoever on the government and they should probably just give it up. When's the last time the government actually listened to it's citizens?

 

[Mike Gayner]

I wonder if some of you idiots know what your country would be today if everyone had the same anti-activism, anti-civil disobedience stance that you take on today.

 

[rh71]

lol @ "shame on you"... like the cops give @ shit when they hear that. I wouldn't.

 

[Corporate Thug]

I never put words in your mouth.

You said it yourself:



So you said they are the same thing when they are not.

Let me put it this way to be more precise: a public university is a "limited public forum." The laws and regulations for speech on a "limited public forum" apply; not those for a non-public forum; not a public forum. So the regulation of speech isn't really based on "public" or "state owned" but rather based on this forum analysis.

 

[Corporate Thug]

I don't get why lot of US cops use force even when there's no threat. It's completely unneeded. They could have simply asked them to leave and threaten to use force if they don't listen, but no, they always have to go straight to using force. Though guess it's better than tasering them or shooting them, like some other similar news stories go. And from that video, there was no macing, though the video does not really show everything.

From what I hear pepper spray is VERY painful so that's probably almost as bad as being tasered.

Though, as much as I support lot of the points of the OWS protesters, I don't think what they're doing will have any effect whatsoever on the government and they should probably just give it up. When's the last time the government actually listened to it's citizens?

What I don't get is why they didn't simply try to arrest them and, if there was resistance, elevate the use of force accordingly.

 

[Spikesoldier]

how convenient that the physical crackdowns begin when the internet is beginning to get taken down...

enjoy your final day(s) of digital free speech, my friends

 

[Ichinisan]

I don't get why lot of US cops use force even when there's no threat. It's completely unneeded. They could have simply asked them to leave and threaten to use force if they don't listen,

That's exactly what they did.

but no, they always have to go straight to using force.

Really? I'm confused.

 

[Ichinisan]

What I don't get is why they didn't simply try to arrest them and, if there was resistance, elevate the use of force accordingly.

They DIDN'T WANT TO ARREST THEM. They wanted to make them leave.

For the protesters, getting arrested would have been much worse and the effects would last much longer than the discomfort of pepper spray.

 

[Newbian]

What I don't get is why they didn't simply try to arrest them and, if there was resistance, elevate the use of force accordingly.

They assaulted a police officer and were standing in front of mass transit and thus got sprayed because of it.

 

[Corporate Thug]

the school is launching an investigation composed of a committee of teachers, students, and staff:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/19/us/california-pepper-spray/index.html

 

[Ichinisan]

ATOT POSTERS: When is it OK to use pepper spray?

 

[Corporate Thug]

They assaulted a police officer and were standing in front of mass transit and thus got sprayed because of it.

I was referring to the Davis incident. As I said, I haven't followed the Portland protest.

 

[Corporate Thug]

They DIDN'T WANT TO ARREST THEM. They wanted to make them leave.

For the protesters, getting arrested would have been much worse and the effects would last much longer than the discomfort of pepper spray.

They were arrested anyway. I'm pretty sure the police knew they were going to make some arrests as soon as they used to the spray. As a matter of liability, I think an arrest is a much safer bet.

 

[shortylickens]

ATOT POSTERS: When is it OK to use pepper spray?

Self defense.

 

[MotionMan]

depends on the campus/size of the "event."

But take a look at Education Code 66301:
(a) Neither the Regents of the University of California, the Trustees of the California State University, the governing board of a community college district, nor an administrator of any campus of those institutions, shall make or enforce a rule subjecting a student to disciplinary sanction solely on the basis of conduct that is speech or other communication that, when engaged in outside a campus of those institutions, is protected from governmental restriction by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution or Section 2 of Article I of the California Constitution.

That is a disciplinary rule. What about permits for using portions of public college campuses for events?

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

What I don't get is why they didn't simply try to arrest them and, if there was resistance, elevate the use of force accordingly.

How do we know that is not what happened?

MotionMan

 

[TalonStrike]

makes no sense why the police attack OWS but not the ignorant tea partiers.