There are plenty of them. The problem is that California will not make them available for non-sanctioned and unorganized racing because of liability concerns.
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Millennium
Because you know street racing is not a crime or nusiance.
In an area where the violent crime rate in stockton is over twice as high as the national average, it's a waste of police resources to patrol a bunch of morons running their cars against each other in isolated areas.
Where exactly did notfred post a link saying the racing was in rural or isolated areas?
I didn't, but it is. They were doing it in an industrial area on a Saturday night, when there weren't many people around, and all the wherehouses were closed.
So that then makes it ok to commit a crime? Is this one of those only enforce the law if I want you to kinds of posts?
I was jsut providing more background info since you mentioned it, I made no implications about whether or not it was any better that way. Lighten up.
This isn't a zero sum game, where every street racer who forfeits a car means one less drug dealer or embezzler or con artist who forfeits something. There's plenty of forfeiture to go around for everyone
I didn't say that it was but I don't really agree with CAF laws to begin with because they severly muddle the boundaries of criminal and civil courts and I also outlined several other points in my posts.
Do you feel it is ok to have such interweaving of two separate processes that were created for different reasons? You can't honestly tell me that you think CAF aren't abused in many muncipalities. I have seen the abuse first hand but it is not just that makes CAF laws shortsighted to begin with. You are asking a civil court to punish a criminal for crimes he was convicted of. His current charges and/or convictions can be laid out as proof of guilt and once those assets are forfeited there is little chance they would be returned even if they conviction is later overturned on appeal.
I didn't say that it was but I don't really agree with CAF laws to begin with because they severly muddle the boundaries of criminal and civil courts and I also outlined several other points in my posts.
Do you feel it is ok to have such interweaving of two separate processes that were created for different reasons? You can't honestly tell me that you think CAF aren't abused in many muncipalities. I have seen the abuse first hand but it is not just that makes CAF laws shortsighted to begin with. You are asking a civil court to punish a criminal for crimes he was convicted of. His current charges and/or convictions can be laid out as proof of guilt and once those assets are forfeited there is little chance they would be returned even if they conviction is later overturned on appeal.
WTF are you talking about? Every track in CA allows the public to race on certain days, and none of them are near stockton.
This is what I read. Some people want to make race tracks available to the public to cut down on street racing, but they claim that California law wouldn't shield them from liability unless it was sanctioned or organized racing.
So you're saying there is absolutely no excuse for street racing, right? Good, seize their cars.
No, I'm not saying that, and I'm sick of people putting words into my mouth. I said that there are drag strips where you can race your cars in California. I said none of them are near the area where this happened. I said absolutely NOTHING about whether there are excuses for street racing.
I have time slips, pictures, and video of my car racing at Sacramento raceway, about 60 miles from stockton, in an unorganizec event at a proper track. Everyone who wants can come, and if their car passes the safety inspection, they can race anyone else that they want for the rest of the night, they just have to get in line.
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Millennium
Because you know street racing is not a crime or nusiance.
In an area where the violent crime rate in stockton is over twice as high as the national average, it's a waste of police resources to patrol a bunch of morons running their cars against each other in isolated areas.
Where exactly did notfred post a link saying the racing was in rural or isolated areas?
I didn't, but it is. They were doing it in an industrial area on a Saturday night, when there weren't many people around, and all the wherehouses were closed.
So that then makes it ok to commit a crime? Is this one of those only enforce the law if I want you to kinds of posts?
I was jsut providing more background info since you mentioned it, I made no implications about whether or not it was any better that way. Lighten up.
Well what is your opinion then?
*standing fvcking ovation* About time, dammit! Into racing? Join a real club, get on the track. Streetracing is for angry children.
Every track that I know of has Test and Tune and/or grudge racing. Still doesn't make it logical to use CAF laws for a misdemeanor traffic offense. Like I said I have serious problems with current CAF laws. Police Departments SHOULD NOT get the proceeds or use of the seized property. Items should be held(if feasible) or auctioned and the cash proceeds go to the state treasurer who must wait until all appeals have been satisfied before the money could be released into the state's general fund. This way there is no incentive for a department to try to gain revenue by CAF laws.
As I said CAF laws really are shortsighted and should be replaced with something that is criminal in scope.
It doesn't muddle anything. Criminal is still criminal, civil is still civil. The civil forfeiture is determined by the laws governing civil proceedings.
There is no interweaving. If you commit tax fraud, you will have a criminal phase where you will find out whether you go to prison, and a civil phase to find out how much of your stuff they are going to take. Nothing different here.
I'm not even proposing that criminal charges be filed in all cases, as long as they have incontrovertible video evidence showing that a person was racing. I'll be satisfied just with them losing their cars.
Actually the thing that would make most sense were if they were to loose their license for a couple of years....
That, and a hefty fine...
That, and a hefty fine...
Imported
Lifer
- Sep 2, 2000
- 14,679
- 23
- 81
I lived right by Stockton, got pulled over by their cops cause I was driving a Civic late at night (coming home from work) on days where there were races and nearby, and was let off with warnings for bullsh!t offenses. They used to race on Arch, but they not many do anymore due to the police. I heard they often go to Tracy now. I wouldn't know right now as I've been in Irvine since September.
There was supposedly some shop trying to get get a drag strip on their property, but I heard the city basically said no, and people in the area complained and what not..
There was supposedly some shop trying to get get a drag strip on their property, but I heard the city basically said no, and people in the area complained and what not..
But they are facing a civil forfeiture for a CRIMINAL act than prejudces a jury or judge as to whether or not to seize property. A civil court should not base forfeiture on a criminal conviction but rather something that violated civil laws which street racing DOES NOT. Do you not see my point? We are using the Civil Court to make up for the lack of a forfeiture law under Criminal Law. The system has a rhyme and reason to it and it should not have crossing boundaries when we compare private citizens and criminals. Either give Criminal Courts asset power in a limited scope relating to the Crime at hand or conviction or forget the whole thing.
A Civil court has no business determining a criminal conviction as basis for a civil forfeiture.
OS
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 15,581
- 1
- 76
Uhh, gee thanks for stuffing words in my mouth.
I'm not saying street racing shouldn't be criminal. I'm just saying that the Stockton's police department's priorities may need some review in the light of the city's other problems.
BTW, for someone who talks so big about street racing as a crime, you are kind of a hypocrite.
I think Tax Fraud is a totally different ball game than how CAF laws are used for "street racers" or even white collar criminals. Regardless I have to be in bed even though I said that a hour ago.
Originally posted by: OS
Uhh, gee thanks for stuffing words in my mouth.
I'm not saying street racing shouldn't be criminal. I'm just saying that the Stockton's police department's priorities may need some review in the light of the city's other problems.
BTW, for someone who talks so big about street racing as a crime, you are kind of a hypocrite.
Lets see my first post of this thread:
"Sounds like a good idea to me. Too many people have lost their lives due to idiots in other cars. I will admit that I have street raced before and within the last year but if something would have happened it would have been 100% my fault. "
Where is the hipocracy again ?I did commit illegal acts and I said it right there. What was your problem again? I never said I was above the law in any post which is what you seem to think I am suggesting. Not hardly. I didn't expect you too much of out you as usual OS so thanks for maintaing your status for me.
So where again did I say I wasn't wrong? Was it the part in which I said it was 100% my fault or the part where I said I had done it in the past year. I can't recall me saying it was ok to street race...
Originally posted by: OS
Uhh, gee thanks for stuffing words in my mouth.
I'm not saying street racing shouldn't be criminal. I'm just saying that the Stockton's police department's priorities may need some review in the light of the city's other problems.
Wait a second so now you can make a determination on a city's needs by examining their FBI violent crime rate? Jesus you should have been a mayor or a police chief a LONG time ago since you have it figured out. I still want to understand how you could draw such a conclusion from a Violent Crime Index? Crime is Crime. Sure Violent Crime is much more dangerous but then again you don't know what they are doing to curb violent crime or their situation at all now do you? You are making baseless accusations based upon a correlation you think you have discovered. Eh uh.
Sure Socrates. It is idiotic to street race. Boy that was hard.
^
Exactly the place in which you pointed out that the crime rate suggested that street racing should have a blind eye turned to it.
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Millennium
Because you know street racing is not a crime or nusiance.
In an area where the violent crime rate is over twice as high as the national average, it's a waste of police resources to patrol a bunch of morons running their cars against each other in isolated areas.
According to that PDF, Stockton has a violent crime rate of 1327, national average is 504. For reference, where I live, Rancho Cucamonga CA, has a rate of 228.
"I've been to a couple, they almost always are. It makes no sense from a street racer's viewpoint to race in a crowded area. They don't get the opportunity to consistently run their cars hard, if at all. "
Sense you went to a few of those races does it make you one of the said morons?
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