Plumbing and social control

[OverVolt]

Those thread tags do not disappoint. The thread content really lived up to it.

 

[brianmanahan]

Those thread tags do not disappoint. The thread content really lived up to it.

it just needs the "i am a raging moron" tag

 

[OverVolt]

it just needs the "i am a raging moron" tag

Hmm? I don't think you've ever done any plumbing. I haven't either but I don't pretend to know enough to form an opinion.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It can be super irritating. Last year our kitchen faucet started leaking...a lot of leaking. The house had a nice looking cheaply made home depot brand faucet. Thing that I found so irritating is the hose that needed replacement had a wacky connector to the faucet and it wasn't a standard size/gauge hose. Add that to the fact that the faucet was probably installed 4 years earlier by the previous owners is even more irritating. Faucets should last longer than 4 years. Home Depot was nice there was a warrantee number to get a replacement but it went to some Chinese guys voicemail. I left a message got a call back the next morning but it was going to take up to 10 business days to get the replacement hose. How can you go 2 weeks without a sink?

 

[Exterous]

China, the answer you are looking for is China.

Er...only because people will buy the cheapest possible product and don't realize or don't care that means cutting corners like quality

I've never seen someone get this angry over a damned toilet.

You have probably been fortunate enough to not have shit quality toilets in your house. My first house had bottom rung builder grade toilets with non-glazed traps, brittle non-standard plastic parts and shoddy, quickly decomposing seals. When I finally got fed up fixing them and spent the money to replace one with a good toilet I became a convert and loudly decried the use of shitty toilets - much to the amusement of our realtor when looking for our new house

"What is this? A Mansfield 160? Fuck that! These ALL have to go!"

 

[MongGrel]

That does look like something that might attack you from range 🙂

D:

nuke it from orbit.

it's the only way to be sure.

 

[slag]

China, the answer you are looking for is China.

The problem is with Americans, not the Chinese. We as a society demand the absolute cheapest part that "gets the job done", and don't care about longevity or machining, or even quality any more.

 

[evident]

Can i join in your misery and bitch and complain about outdoor faucets, how impossible it is to find replacement parts for them, and in my old house was virtually impossible to replace without destroying my vinyl siding? and then when i moved to my new house, they had the same exact issues, leaky as shit!

 

[Charmonium]

Can i join in your misery and bitch and complain about outdoor faucets, how impossible it is to find replacement parts for them, and in my old house was virtually impossible to replace without destroying my vinyl siding? and then when i moved to my new house, they had the same exact issues, leaky as shit!

Of course. This is a safe place where you can express your feelings w/o judgment. 😎

 

[bradly1101]

Right, has nothing to do with American consumers demand for cheap crap. I just don't know if it's more about saving the money or if it's about the insatiable need to bitch about something and place blame elsewhere for the cheap toilet that is in their cardboard house.

So you're saying that Americans rose up and demanded cheaper stuff? Or did corporations look for a cheaper way?

 

[Humpy]

So you're saying that Americans rose up and demanded cheaper stuff? Or did corporations look for a cheaper way?

I'm not an economist but I think the relevant corporations are under pressure to create products that sell the most in order to increase profits for the owner(s). There are various ways to do that of course.

Having been involved in home construction for a few years I know for a fact that most US buyers wanted square footage and interior bling above all else and will not hesitate to sacrifice quality of the things they cannot see. No shits given about the roof or foundation or mechanical, or plumbing fixture guts, as long as it will "pass" inspection and they can still get their granite and wood veneered floors and a huge closet for all their shit. This leads directly to a high demand for ultra-low-cost roofers, masons, plumbers and general contractors who will hire illegal immigrants and buy Chinese drywall and plastic faucets. I get the feeling that consumers have this same effect on other corporations.

There are plenty of quality plumbing fixtures available that will easily meet the expectations of even the most demanding person, and can be had tomorrow. Not many people will look further than aisle 24 at Home Depot or actually pay for what they claim to want.

I'll add that I don't really blame consumers for some of this stuff either. Not everyone can afford a $1,200 faucet nor do they need the excess capacity of something that will last 100 years.

 

[CPA]

Yeah, I've done a few plumbing jobs for elderly relatives & my own place over the past few years, horrible every time. Everything is cheap crap. Even the commercial stuff seems to be junk. I would definitely pay more for quality stuff, but it doesn't really seem to be available...

I'm still learning code, but in my ideal setup, I'd run some CPVC pipe in the walls, then run PEX inside the pipes, so if they DID leak, it'd have an outlet path to drain into rooms that had in-floor drains. They make nice edge drains now that don't look like you're in a gas station bathroom. My plan is to do my whole house in Sharkbite with PEX & a leak-handling system made up of tubes & drains. I've had two leaks in my current place that have absolutely ruined sections of my home. One was in the bathroom above the living room and required a quarter of the ceiling to be gutted. Sooooooo stupid :thumbsdown:

And if it leaks, how are you going to know where the leak is?

Were either of the two leaks you've had a result of PEX? Mine have always been copper related.

 

[TheSlamma]

I'm not an economist but I think the relevant corporations are under pressure to create products that sell the most in order to increase profits for the owner(s). There are various ways to do that of course.

Having been involved in home construction for a few years I know for a fact that most US buyers wanted square footage and interior bling above all else and will not hesitate to sacrifice quality of the things they cannot see. No shits given about the roof or foundation or mechanical, or plumbing fixture guts, as long as it will "pass" inspection and they can still get their granite and wood veneered floors and a huge closet for all their shit. This leads directly to a high demand for ultra-low-cost roofers, masons, plumbers and general contractors who will hire illegal immigrants and buy Chinese drywall and plastic faucets. I get the feeling that consumers have this same effect on other corporations.

There are plenty of quality plumbing fixtures available that will easily meet the expectations of even the most demanding person, and can be had tomorrow. Not many people will look further than aisle 24 at Home Depot or actually pay for what they claim to want.

I'll add that I don't really blame consumers for some of this stuff either. Not everyone can afford a $1,200 faucet nor do they need the excess capacity of something that will last 100 years.

You don't have to spend $1200 on a faucet, the house I grew up in was built in 1907, the downstairs bath had an old American Standard 40 year old faucet at the time that never had problems. Worst thing you ever have to do with these is change out the stems. There is no excuse in the world that can make me accept that in 2016 we can't accomplish what people did in the 1930's.. well other than lazyness and greed.

 

[lxskllr]

That's a good looking sink. I love fixtures up to the early 50s. After that, they got more utilitarian looking, eg cheaper.

 

[Humpy]

You don't have to spend $1200 on a faucet, the house I grew up in was built in 1907, the downstairs bath had an old American Standard 40 year old faucet at the time that never had problems. Worst thing you ever have to do with these is change out the stems. There is no excuse in the world that can make me accept that in 2016 we can't accomplish what people did in the 1930's.. well other than lazyness and greed.

The $1,200 figure came from a Dornbracht that my wife was showing me (that we won't be buying) for the kitchen. But yeah, we have American Standard and Delta that have been perfect for 12 years and will easily be good for quite a while. I've never had a problem with stuff for my own house and it is far better than what was available in the past once you get to an reasonable level.

Korky toilet valves are made in the USA, are like $30 for the better kit, and work real good. Still, Fluidmaster sells a shitload of their delicate $8 contraptions because they are $8. There is an example like that for everything.

 

[Engineer]

In yet the people bitching the most are the ones shopping at Walmart. Catch 22 there eh bud?

I shop RARELY at Walmart and haven't been there in three months. With that said, the US has gotten to the point that it doesn't matter which one you shop as because they all import from China. Not to mention that the vast majority of people can't afford better stuff any more because their wages have stagnated for decades. Guess why?

 

[Engineer]

The problem is with American corporations, CEO's and boards of directors, not the Chinese. They, as a group demand the absolute cheapest part that "gets the job done", and don't care about longevity or machining, or even quality any more, just profit margins

Modified to fit the situation.

 

[lxskllr]

I shop RARELY at Walmart and haven't been there in three months. With that said, the US has gotten to the point that it doesn't matter which one you shop as because they all import from China. Not to mention that the vast majority of people can't afford better stuff any more because their wages have stagnated for decades. Guess why?

I've been buying more stuff from HarborFreight cause American made isn't available. American names are, but not American made. Their stuff is usually ~70% as good as the better American(Chinese) stuff, but less than half the price.

I bought some mini ViceGrips last year, and took them back cause I saw they were Chinese. I'm not paying $13 for Chinese steel, but I'd have gladly paid $20 for American. Anyway, I got some terrible pliers from HarborFreight for $2, and that was sufficient til I could get used ViceGrips(real American) from the flea market for $6.

 

[evident]

I've been buying more stuff from HarborFreight cause American made isn't available. American names are, but not American made. Their stuff is usually ~70% as good as the better American(Chinese) stuff, but less than half the price.

I bought some mini ViceGrips last year, and took them back cause I saw they were Chinese. I'm not paying $13 for Chinese steel, but I'd have gladly paid $20 for American. Anyway, I got some terrible pliers from HarborFreight for $2, and that was sufficient til I could get used ViceGrips(real American) from the flea market for $6.

I recently upgraded my POS wire cutters and electrical tools from god knows where (harbor freight or made in china craftsmen, i forget) and got a set of kleins. I would pay double for these in the time and aggrevation it saved in setting up my home theater system and new office.

 

[IronWing]

New toilet, installed by a professional plumber on Monday. It is now Thursday and the valve leaks. I'm naming names, it's made by Kohler. The quality of the innards is reminiscent of consolation prizes for carnival games.

 

[Howard]

New toilet, installed by a professional plumber on Monday. It is now Thursday and the valve leaks. I'm naming names, it's made by Kohler. The quality of the innards is reminiscent of consolation prizes for carnival games.

Oh, but Kohler's toilets are garbage. Anyone could have told you that... and apparently your plumber didn't.

 

[IronWing]

Oh, but Kohler's toilets are garbage. Anyone could have told you that... and apparently your plumber didn't.

When we replaced the toilet in the other bathroom, we bought a Briggs. Eight years with no problems. The place we bought it stopped carrying them.

 

[Howard]

When we replaced the toilet in the other bathroom, we bought a Briggs. Eight years with no problems. The place we bought it stopped carrying them.

http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm

 

[Exterous]

Oh, but Kohler's toilets are garbage. Anyone could have told you that... and apparently your plumber didn't.

Kohlers makes a range of prices and qualities. I know quite a few plumbers who like certain models of their toilets. I replaced two of the terrible Mansfield 160s in my last house with Kohlers and had no issues during the 7 years I lived there

http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm

Totos are nice although getting parts for them can be problematic depending on your region

 

[keird]

Reviews at the link but I prefer Symmons since my plumber said, "Go to Lowes and get me one of these. They're the only shower valve that's made out of brass."

http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/sources.faucets.Symmons.htm#.VyylSIQrKig