Pledge of Allegiance: Unconstitutional.

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic
About atheists... there is no single person on this earth that does not worship a god in some form (especially under definition 4 in that link, although not necessarily the idolatry of money). That so-called atheists usually don't recognize this fact never surprises me -- the very heart of atheism is an irrational denial of belief (only agnostics are truly honest on this subject). Now go pop a diet pill and dream that that new car will get you laid.

I guess I'm the one exception.

#1-6 from the link do not work for me - Must side with Red on this one.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic
About atheists... there is no single person on this earth that does not worship a god in some form (especially under definition 4 in that link, although not necessarily the idolatry of money). That so-called atheists usually don't recognize this fact never surprises me -- the very heart of atheism is an irrational denial of belief (only agnostics are truly honest on this subject). Now go pop a diet pill and dream that that new car will get you laid.

I guess I'm the one exception.

There are no exceptions. Everyone worships an idol god in some fashion. Most modern people don't realize that the origin of idolatry was charms, i.e. lucky rabbit's foot, etc. Anything outside yourself that you think can fix you or help you that obviously cannot. Even modern religions are most idolatrous than as they were originally taught in ancient times.

As I said in another thread just a couple of days ago:
"Tell me about yourself long enough, and I guarantee I will find your god(s). TV, news, car, government, money, diet pills, environmentalism, patriotism, pseudoscience, sex, drugs, something. Everyone has an irrational faith in something to save them that cannot possibly save them. Everyone has a scapegoat that obviously is not at fault. Everyone holds an obvious falsehood to be the supreme truth. To be otherwise would be to have no humanity. You dream of something, do you not?"

 

[conjur]

Saw Newdow on the news the other night about this. That dude seriously needs to get laid or, at the least, find himself a hobby.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic
About atheists... there is no single person on this earth that does not worship a god in some form (especially under definition 4 in that link, although not necessarily the idolatry of money). That so-called atheists usually don't recognize this fact never surprises me -- the very heart of atheism is an irrational denial of belief (only agnostics are truly honest on this subject). Now go pop a diet pill and dream that that new car will get you laid.

I guess I'm the one exception.

There are no exceptions. Everyone worships an idol god in some fashion. Most modern people don't realize that the origin of idolatry was charms, i.e. lucky rabbit's foot, etc. Anything outside yourself that you think can fix you or help you that obviously cannot. Even modern religions are most idolatrous than as they were originally taught in ancient times.

As I said in another thread just a couple of days ago:
"Tell me about yourself long enough, and I guarantee I will find your god(s). TV, news, car, government, money, diet pills, environmentalism, patriotism, pseudoscience, sex, drugs, something. Everyone has an irrational faith in something to save them that cannot possibly save them. Everyone has a scapegoat that obviously is not at fault. Everyone holds an obvious falsehood to be the supreme truth. To be otherwise would be to have no humanity. You dream of something, do you not?"

Hmmm, I guess because you say so it must be true:roll:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic
About atheists... there is no single person on this earth that does not worship a god in some form (especially under definition 4 in that link, although not necessarily the idolatry of money). That so-called atheists usually don't recognize this fact never surprises me -- the very heart of atheism is an irrational denial of belief (only agnostics are truly honest on this subject). Now go pop a diet pill and dream that that new car will get you laid.

I guess I'm the one exception.

There are no exceptions. Everyone worships an idol god in some fashion. Most modern people don't realize that the origin of idolatry was charms, i.e. lucky rabbit's foot, etc. Anything outside yourself that you think can fix you or help you that obviously cannot. Even modern religions are most idolatrous than as they were originally taught in ancient times.

As I said in another thread just a couple of days ago:
"Tell me about yourself long enough, and I guarantee I will find your god(s). TV, news, car, government, money, diet pills, environmentalism, patriotism, pseudoscience, sex, drugs, something. Everyone has an irrational faith in something to save them that cannot possibly save them. Everyone has a scapegoat that obviously is not at fault. Everyone holds an obvious falsehood to be the supreme truth. To be otherwise would be to have no humanity. You dream of something, do you not?"

Hmmm, I guess because you say so it must be true:roll:

I'm not interested if you believe it or not. I know it to be a fact.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic
About atheists... there is no single person on this earth that does not worship a god in some form (especially under definition 4 in that link, although not necessarily the idolatry of money). That so-called atheists usually don't recognize this fact never surprises me -- the very heart of atheism is an irrational denial of belief (only agnostics are truly honest on this subject). Now go pop a diet pill and dream that that new car will get you laid.

I guess I'm the one exception.

There are no exceptions. Everyone worships an idol god in some fashion. Most modern people don't realize that the origin of idolatry was charms, i.e. lucky rabbit's foot, etc. Anything outside yourself that you think can fix you or help you that obviously cannot. Even modern religions are most idolatrous than as they were originally taught in ancient times.

As I said in another thread just a couple of days ago:
"Tell me about yourself long enough, and I guarantee I will find your god(s). TV, news, car, government, money, diet pills, environmentalism, patriotism, pseudoscience, sex, drugs, something. Everyone has an irrational faith in something to save them that cannot possibly save them. Everyone has a scapegoat that obviously is not at fault. Everyone holds an obvious falsehood to be the supreme truth. To be otherwise would be to have no humanity. You dream of something, do you not?"

Hmmm, I guess because you say so it must be true:roll:

I'm not interested if you believe it or not. I know it to be a fact.

At least you think you do.

 

[operaman1]

"At least you think you do. "

Okie dokie Quang Chang Kang er.... Red Dawn. Now get back to your idoless life wandering the earth because that is the only possible way that you do not have some form of a God whether it be money, possessions, God himself, women, something. From reading your posts you seem to fail to grasp abstract concepts...

 

[Todd33]

Now we are defining God as "stuff". Get over it Jesus freaks, not all of us need children's fables to overcome our fear of the unknown. We live with the fact the we live and die, no angels, no grey haired old guy, no hell or heaven. Humans are weak minded and short sighted. I have no faith that we will ever evolve and overcome our short comings. It's not a question of will we go extinct, but rather will we have to kill the whole planet to do so.

 

[conjur]

Oh, look what the RNC just sent me via email:

Dear Supporter,

Yesterday, a left-wing activist judge ruled that children reciting the pledge of allegiance in school is unconstitutional. This is another blatant example of a liberal judge legislating from the bench and attempting to circumvent the constitution
.
Here is the article from the Associated Press, dated September 14, 2005:

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- A federal judge declared the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools unconstitutional Wednesday in a case brought by the same atheist whose previous battle against the words "under God" was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court on procedural grounds.

U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."

This ridiculous ruling once again reminds me why it is vital that we have strong, fair Republicans in Washington. We must continue to fight for our judicial system and that can only be done with the right Representatives in Congress. America?s justice system should be one of fairness and honesty, not of liberal deceit and propaganda.

That is why I need your help immediately. With your contribution of $25, $50 or $100, we will be able to stop the Democrats and their nominations of liberal judges across the country. Your financial assistance will help us support the campaigns of Republicans in the House and ensure they are elected and re-elected.

We cannot afford to lose our majority. We cannot afford to have more judges legislating from the bench and trying to destroy our values. Our children deserve the right to say the pledge of allegiance in schools; that freedom is what makes us Americans.

We must come together as Republicans and check and balance these liberal judges. It is time to unite as one nation and tell the Democrats we have had enough of their left-wing nominations. Thank you for your support.

Sincerely,


Tom Reynolds, M.C.
Chairman

P.S. - We cannot fight the Democrats alone; we need your help right now. Judges are in place to interpret the law, nothing else. We must fight the Democrats and their liberal judges who believe they have legislative powers. Please join me today.

(emphasis his)

Well, Tom. I'd be glad to donate once you show me we have some fair Republicans in the Congress. Right now, the Republicans are rejecting calls for independent investigations into the Plame leak, DSM, and now the Katrina relief effort foul up. Doesn't sound real fair to me, Tom.

Blatant legislating from the bench? But it's ok to get judges to force someone to be forcefed against their wishes?

Last I checked, Tom, removing the words "under God" won't affect the pledge nor prevent any freedom-loving American schoolchildren from saying the pledge. They'll just be saying the version our grandparents recited. Is that so bad, Tom?

And, imo, Tom, America cannot afford the current Republican majority. You guys are bankrupting this country: financially as well as morally.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: operaman1
"At least you think you do. "

Okie dokie Quang Chang Kang er.... Red Dawn. Now get back to your idoless life wandering the earth because that is the only possible way that you do not have some form of a God whether it be money, possessions, God himself, women, something. From reading your posts you seem to fail to grasp abstract concepts...

Well will you look at that? The guy who was pulling out the victim card when he thought he was personally attacked unprovoked is doing it himself. Seems like the mighty "Libertarian" is a bit of a hypocrite himself. That's OK, I never thought you were any more enlightened than anybody else here, just more full of yourself.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Now we are defining God as "stuff". Get over it Jesus freaks, not all of us need children's fables to overcome our fear of the unknown. We live with the fact the we live and die, no angels, no grey haired old guy, no hell or heaven. Humans are weak minded and short sighted. I have no faith that we will ever evolve and overcome our short comings. It's not a question of will we go extinct, but rather will we have to kill the whole planet to do so.

1) I'm not a "jesus freak." Nice strawman though, but then again I expect no less from you.

2) Your faith in this destruction is your god. A kind of pessimistic pseudo-nihilism. All evidence of history points to the contrary -- that life expands, evolves, improves, and (most importantly) endures. To believe otherwise in the face of billions of years of evidence is as ridiculous a faith as believing in some "grey haired old guy."

3) I'm not defending the pledge, I'm merely against this form of attack on it. As I already said, I personally wish that the pledge would be done away with entirely. A free nation has no need of pledges, and especially not the enforcement of mandatory pledges. A free people defend their free nation because they love their freedom and seek to protect it. When the love of, and allegience to, freedom becomes mandatory under force of law, then it is no longer freedom, by definition.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Todd33
Now we are defining God as "stuff". Get over it Jesus freaks, not all of us need children's fables to overcome our fear of the unknown. We live with the fact the we live and die, no angels, no grey haired old guy, no hell or heaven. Humans are weak minded and short sighted. I have no faith that we will ever evolve and overcome our short comings. It's not a question of will we go extinct, but rather will we have to kill the whole planet to do so.

1) I'm not a "jesus freak." Nice strawman though, but then again I expect no less from you.

2) Your faith in this destruction is your god. A kind of pessimistic pseudo-nihilism. All evidence of history points to the contrary -- that life expands, evolves, improves, and (most importantly) endures. To believe otherwise in the face of billions of years of evidence is as ridiculous a faith as believing in some "grey haired old guy."

3) I'm not defending the pledge, I'm merely against this form of attack on it. As I already said, I personally wish that the pledge would be done away with entirely. A free nation has no need of pledges, and especially not the enforcement of mandatory pledges. A free people defend their free nation because they love their freedom and seek to protect it. When the love of, and allegience to, freedom becomes mandatory under force of law, then it is no longer freedom, by definition.

Forget my disagreement with you over what is considered a God, I totally agree with the last sentence of your post:thumbsup:

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic
About atheists... there is no single person on this earth that does not worship a god in some form (especially under definition 4 in that link, although not necessarily the idolatry of money). That so-called atheists usually don't recognize this fact never surprises me -- the very heart of atheism is an irrational denial of belief (only agnostics are truly honest on this subject). Now go pop a diet pill and dream that that new car will get you laid.

I guess I'm the one exception.

There are no exceptions. Everyone worships an idol god in some fashion. Most modern people don't realize that the origin of idolatry was charms, i.e. lucky rabbit's foot, etc. Anything outside yourself that you think can fix you or help you that obviously cannot. Even modern religions are most idolatrous than as they were originally taught in ancient times.

As I said in another thread just a couple of days ago:
"Tell me about yourself long enough, and I guarantee I will find your god(s). TV, news, car, government, money, diet pills, environmentalism, patriotism, pseudoscience, sex, drugs, something. Everyone has an irrational faith in something to save them that cannot possibly save them. Everyone has a scapegoat that obviously is not at fault. Everyone holds an obvious falsehood to be the supreme truth. To be otherwise would be to have no humanity. You dream of something, do you not?"

Hmmm, I guess because you say so it must be true:roll:

I'm not interested if you believe it or not. I know it to be a fact.

At least you think you do.

It is his religion.

 

[operaman1]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: operaman1
"At least you think you do. "

Okie dokie Quang Chang Kang er.... Red Dawn. Now get back to your idoless life wandering the earth because that is the only possible way that you do not have some form of a God whether it be money, possessions, God himself, women, something. From reading your posts you seem to fail to grasp abstract concepts...

Well will you look at that? The guy who was pulling out the victim card when he thought he was personally attacked unprovoked is doing it himself. Seems like the mighty "Libertarian" is a bit of a hypocrite himself. That's OK, I never thought you were any more enlightened than anybody else here, just more full of yourself.

Not as full of myself as you are. How do you avoid having any idols or Gods. You fast? Give up all worldy possessions? Just curious. Fuuny how everyone else has a God or idol of some form OTHER than you. I am just tring to become more "enlightened". BTW, the you don't know me B.S. is such a lame argument. I expect that from a teenager not an adult.:laugh:

 

[TheSlamma]

This is a real slap on the cheek for Christians... and what do they do when they get a slap on the cheek? they fight back ofcourse

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Vic
About atheists... there is no single person on this earth that does not worship a god in some form (especially under definition 4 in that link, although not necessarily the idolatry of money). That so-called atheists usually don't recognize this fact never surprises me -- the very heart of atheism is an irrational denial of belief (only agnostics are truly honest on this subject). Now go pop a diet pill and dream that that new car will get you laid.

I guess I'm the one exception.

There are no exceptions. Everyone worships an idol god in some fashion. Most modern people don't realize that the origin of idolatry was charms, i.e. lucky rabbit's foot, etc. Anything outside yourself that you think can fix you or help you that obviously cannot. Even modern religions are most idolatrous than as they were originally taught in ancient times.

As I said in another thread just a couple of days ago:
"Tell me about yourself long enough, and I guarantee I will find your god(s). TV, news, car, government, money, diet pills, environmentalism, patriotism, pseudoscience, sex, drugs, something. Everyone has an irrational faith in something to save them that cannot possibly save them. Everyone has a scapegoat that obviously is not at fault. Everyone holds an obvious falsehood to be the supreme truth. To be otherwise would be to have no humanity. You dream of something, do you not?"

Hmmm, I guess because you say so it must be true:roll:

I'm not interested if you believe it or not. I know it to be a fact.

At least you think you do.

It is his religion.

That we are all led astray by believing in external idols and scapegoats when we should believe in ourselves?
Yes, Moonie, that is my religion. "Thou art God."

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: operaman1

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: operaman1
"At least you think you do. "

Okie dokie Quang Chang Kang er.... Red Dawn. Now get back to your idoless life wandering the earth because that is the only possible way that you do not have some form of a God whether it be money, possessions, God himself, women, something. From reading your posts you seem to fail to grasp abstract concepts...

Well will you look at that? The guy who was pulling out the victim card when he thought he was personally attacked unprovoked is doing it himself. Seems like the mighty "Libertarian" is a bit of a hypocrite himself. That's OK, I never thought you were any more enlightened than anybody else here, just more full of yourself.

Not as full of myself as you are. How do you avoid having any idols or Gods. You fast? Give up all worldy possessions? Just curious. Fuuny how everyone else has a God or idol of some form OTHER than you. I am just tring to become more "enlightened".

Try harder, you don't seem to be doing a very good job at it.

BTW, the you don't know me B.S. is such a lame argument. I expect that from a teenager not an adult.:laugh:

?? I haven't the faintest idea what you are talkling about..then again I don't think you do either.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: operaman1

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: operaman1
"At least you think you do. "

Okie dokie Quang Chang Kang er.... Red Dawn. Now get back to your idoless life wandering the earth because that is the only possible way that you do not have some form of a God whether it be money, possessions, God himself, women, something. From reading your posts you seem to fail to grasp abstract concepts...

Well will you look at that? The guy who was pulling out the victim card when he thought he was personally attacked unprovoked is doing it himself. Seems like the mighty "Libertarian" is a bit of a hypocrite himself. That's OK, I never thought you were any more enlightened than anybody else here, just more full of yourself.

Not as full of myself as you are. How do you avoid having any idols or Gods. You fast? Give up all worldy possessions? Just curious. Fuuny how everyone else has a God or idol of some form OTHER than you. I am just tring to become more "enlightened". BTW, the you don't know me B.S. is such a lame argument. I expect that from a teenager not an adult.:laugh:

I have no god or idol I "worship" either. I think Elway was a great QB, I never "Worship" him though.

Give up worldly possessions? that makes no sense, because I buy a CD from an artist I worship or Idolize them? I don't think so.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: operaman1

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: operaman1
"At least you think you do. "

Okie dokie Quang Chang Kang er.... Red Dawn. Now get back to your idoless life wandering the earth because that is the only possible way that you do not have some form of a God whether it be money, possessions, God himself, women, something. From reading your posts you seem to fail to grasp abstract concepts...

Well will you look at that? The guy who was pulling out the victim card when he thought he was personally attacked unprovoked is doing it himself. Seems like the mighty "Libertarian" is a bit of a hypocrite himself. That's OK, I never thought you were any more enlightened than anybody else here, just more full of yourself.

Not as full of myself as you are. How do you avoid having any idols or Gods. You fast? Give up all worldy possessions? Just curious. Fuuny how everyone else has a God or idol of some form OTHER than you. I am just tring to become more "enlightened". BTW, the you don't know me B.S. is such a lame argument. I expect that from a teenager not an adult.:laugh:

I have no god or idol I "worship" either. I think Elway was a great QB, I never "Worship" him though.

Give up worldly possessions? that makes no sense, because I buy a CD from an artist I worship or Idolize them? I don't think so.

You obviously never lived in Denver then.



Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway!!!

 

[operaman1]

Here's a for ya. BTW, John Elway was a hell of a QB. Nice guy too... A lot bigger in person than I imagined. The guy was as big as the O linemen Height-wise. Man trying to tackle him would have sucked...

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: operaman1
Here's a for ya. BTW, John Elway was a hell of a QB. Nice guy too... A lot bigger in person than I imagined. The guy was as big as the O linemen Height-wise. Man trying to tackle him would have sucked...

I don't worship cookies either.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Hafen

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: operaman1

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: operaman1
"At least you think you do. "

Okie dokie Quang Chang Kang er.... Red Dawn. Now get back to your idoless life wandering the earth because that is the only possible way that you do not have some form of a God whether it be money, possessions, God himself, women, something. From reading your posts you seem to fail to grasp abstract concepts...

Well will you look at that? The guy who was pulling out the victim card when he thought he was personally attacked unprovoked is doing it himself. Seems like the mighty "Libertarian" is a bit of a hypocrite himself. That's OK, I never thought you were any more enlightened than anybody else here, just more full of yourself.

Not as full of myself as you are. How do you avoid having any idols or Gods. You fast? Give up all worldy possessions? Just curious. Fuuny how everyone else has a God or idol of some form OTHER than you. I am just tring to become more "enlightened". BTW, the you don't know me B.S. is such a lame argument. I expect that from a teenager not an adult.:laugh:

I have no god or idol I "worship" either. I think Elway was a great QB, I never "Worship" him though.

Give up worldly possessions? that makes no sense, because I buy a CD from an artist I worship or Idolize them? I don't think so.

You obviously never lived in Denver then.



Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway, Elway!!!

Only for about 25 years.

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari
Why not just refuse to recite the pledge if it bothers you so much?

Hey, why not just change it to "Under Allah"... and YOU can refuse to recite it?

I refuse to recite it at school because it delcares that this nation is Under God, which is not the case. The USoA is in no way supported by God.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: newParadigm

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari
Why not just refuse to recite the pledge if it bothers you so much?

Hey, why not just change it to "Under Allah"... and YOU can refuse to recite it?

I refuse to recite it at school because it delcares that this nation is Under God, which is not the case. The USoA is in no way supported by God.

The Manifest Destiny crowd is going to eat you alive for that. The Civil War settled that issue. God holds up this nation and DEMANDS to be in our pledge and on our money.

 

[TheSlamma]

Right I'm sure Jesus loves being a part of money and the vast evils behind it. Didn't he have a showing at a bank once?