Question Please tell me about War Thunder and World of Tanks

[ibex333]

I would like to know if these games are newb friendly or heavily favor "pay to win". Is it possible to be successful playing completely fair and unlocking stuff like that? Will it take a lifetime to unlock any of the really "good" stuff?

I played World of Warships and that game heavily favors those who play 24/7 and keep buying premium ships. I couldn't take it anymore and "kicked the can".


Is it the same with War Thunder and World of Tanks?

 

[mopardude87]

WOT isn't exactly pay to win,about when you land into a tier 7 T21/Tiger1/IS you may want premium cause if your a avg or below player your prob more prone to losing silver to gaining especially on a bad game.Premium tanks are a option especially if you want to grind silver but it can be done if your not popping off a grand a shot like with a 122mm shell in a IS.Premium shells which cost quite a bit more then standard shells can make things worst but most people spam premium like no tomorrow and for some its becoming a issue while others shrug it off.

You could technically stick to tier 5 which i swear has some of the best tanks and a better overall fun factor.Unless you absolutely suck honestly you will NEVER need premium time or a premium tank .Even tier 6 is easy enough but there is maybe a few select good tanks like the kv-2/kv-85/cromwell .Get really good at the game perhaps in tier 5/6 battles then maybe work up from there?

 

[gorobei]

war thunder doesnt have premium ammo or consumables, all ammo and equipment mods/upgrades are bought with ingame silver. but you will still run out of money/lions if you play badly or subpar at high tiers.

it does have premium vehicles but most are versions of the same vehicle in the normal tech tree so everyone has access to them. some are unique but garbage. a few are unique and not garbage but nothing radically different than what you might face from the normal tech tree. but some of the prems have lower battle ratings which gives them moderately better matchmaking.
so yes you can play f2p without being defacto overmatched by pay players. but you will still be overmatched by players(free and pay) with better vehicles due to "random" matchmaking.

the trees however are grindy and require you to research and buy a ton of vehicles in order to get to the higher tiers (but you do get to keep everything you buy and never sell them). paying for premium account time or vehicles can shorten that grind. you can also buy talismans to double the xp for research unlocking, but wont double the silver.

crew skill points are one thing that long time players will have that will improve vehicle performance but if the micro advantage they provide was the deciding factor, then you screwed up long before they killed you and were going to die regardless.

veteran players will still beat you because they know how to fly ACM, where to target weak spots in tank armor, or how to better control ship guns.

so there is no requirement to buy and play premiums. but there is still all kinds of bs with balance, nation specific bugs, matchmaking, and maps. whether those issues are worse than any other game is for you to decide.

 

[Craig234]

I can't address any of the games really except WoT. That one has a lot of good qualities, and you can have a lot of fun for free.

Is it pay to win? Well, it's very, very grindy to get modest advantages, and money speeds that process up, nearly halving the time needed.

There are many examples where money saves that time. The obvious one is increasing the in-game currency and experience for 'premium time'. Another I find pretty annoying is that better ammo, which penetrates more often, costs those in-game credits, so it's harder to afford for free players - but it's not a *huge* issue. Another is that the skills are set up so that some benefit you while you're leveling them to 100%, and others
only activate at 100%, which encourages you to train one that benefits while leveling until 100%, and then paying the cash currency to reset it to one that takes effect at 100%. Of course, you can just spend hundreds of games leveling it to 100% while it does nothing...

I guess I'd say the money issue has some impact, but doesn't prevent enjoying the game, as long as you don't worry about the issues and just have some fun playing. It's only a bit 'pay to win'.

I think they are feeling some money crunch, because after years where premium only gave you the reward bonuses, they've announced adding other benefits. You can have fun playing hundreds of battles - to get top tanks etc., expect thousands and tens of thousands. I'd think it's still worth playing casually - it has some great production.

 

[Stuka87]

I have been playing WoT for a very long time. Still play it almost daily. But by no means do you NEED to play everyday. You can totally play casually.

WoT is a 'pay to progress' game. Where a premium account helps you get more silver and experience for each battle (50% more). Also, starting next patch they are making big changes to what a premium account gives you, which is cool.

Recently, they have been making a LOT of good changes. They just did an overhaul of match making which has made a HUGE improvement. Especially for Tier 6 and Tier 8 tanks, which before the change were almost always bottom tier. They are getting ready premium ammo changes, and they are preparing to allow people to hide stats. And you will soon be able to exclude a map from match making if you don't like it. AND they are nerfing arty, although we don't know the full extent of this yet.

As for how long it takes to work your way up a tech tree, this comes down to entirely how well you play. When you first start out, you will suck. Everybody does. Watch lots of youtube or streamers to learn to play better. Skill4ltu is a great streamer to watch, one of the best in the world and is a very down to earth guy.

The most important thing is to start on a tech tree that is easier to play. I would suggest Soviet heavies (line going up to IS7), or the medium line going up to the Obj 430U. There are lots of other great lines, but several require a lot more skill to play. For instance, do NOT start out on the Swedish TD line, chances are you will not enjoy them as a first tank line.

 

[mopardude87]

Recently, they have been making a LOT of good changes. They just did an overhaul of match making which has made a HUGE improvement. Especially for Tier 6 and Tier 8 tanks, which before the change were almost always bottom tier. They are getting ready premium ammo changes, and they are preparing to allow people to hide stats. And you will soon be able to exclude a map from match making if you don't like it. AND they are nerfing arty, although we don't know the full extent of this yet.

These new and upcoming updates honestly may bring me back. I stopped playing cause i swore in my experience mm would go sideways on which team would get more heavies or none in some cases or constantly put me more bottom tier then anything.I love the tier 5-6 battles and lately it was non stop putting me in bottom tier. The change to premium ammo may be good, i love the idea of excluding certain maps from queue and hiding stats certainly will help as much as getting rid of enemy chat.It dramatically decreases toxicity in the community. I thought arty got nerfed already lol how much more are they nerfing it seriously?

 

[Stuka87]

These new and upcoming updates honestly may bring me back. I stopped playing cause i swore in my experience mm would go sideways on which team would get more heavies or none in some cases or constantly put me more bottom tier then anything.I love the tier 5-6 battles and lately it was non stop putting me in bottom tier. The change to premium ammo may be good, i love the idea of excluding certain maps from queue and hiding stats certainly will help as much as getting rid of enemy chat.It dramatically decreases toxicity in the community. I thought arty got nerfed already lol how much more are they nerfing it seriously?

The big arty change they did last was technically a buff. Less dmg per shot yes, but they reloaded way faster, aimed way faster, and the blast radius increased. Plus they added stun. These new changes are going to make blast range falloff what it should have been (if you are farther from the blast, you will now take much less dmg), stun will no longer stack, and if the new stun time is under a given amount, it doesnt even get applied.

 

[Craig234]

The big arty change they did last was technically a buff. Less dmg per shot yes, but they reloaded way faster, aimed way faster, and the blast radius increased. Plus they added stun. These new changes are going to make blast range falloff what it should have been (if you are farther from the blast, you will now take much less dmg), stun will no longer stack, and if the new stun time is under a given amount, it doesnt even get applied.

I disagree.

The one thing Arty did that was useful was damage, and they took it away. Stun is far less useful or run, and it just annoys the targets. They wanted to appease the many who hate arty and try a new mechanic, and just pissed most players off. Now it just looks like a big nerf coming.

 

[mopardude87]

I disagree.

The one thing Arty did that was useful was damage, and they took it away. Stun is far less useful or run, and it just annoys the targets. They wanted to appease the many who hate arty and try a new mechanic, and just pissed most players off. Now it just looks like a big nerf coming.

I know i hate arty at times and there was tanks like the KV-4 i simply stopped working on cause it was so slow i would always end up being hit by arty.In my medium tanks oh yeah i constantly am moving so its a hit harder to get a shot on me.

 

[Stuka87]

I disagree.

The one thing Arty did that was useful was damage, and they took it away. Stun is far less useful or run, and it just annoys the targets. They wanted to appease the many who hate arty and try a new mechanic, and just pissed most players off. Now it just looks like a big nerf coming.

Well, admittedly I just want arty out of the game. Nothing infuriates me more than a GPS guided shell hitting me from a vehicle that I cannot shoot back at. And while I hated being 1 shotted before the last set of changes, I now just hate the stun. At least stun will stop stacking after 1.5. As I am regularly shot by multiple arty back to back. Which is especially bad if you are in an auto loader.

 

[Midwayman]

They are all great fun for the first few tier and then progress slows to a grind. Individual models cost as much as a full game once they know they have you hooked. There are PTW consumables, and while I can't prove it I pretty sure the tier system is rigged. You get put in games within a couple tiers of your rank. If you're the lowest in the game you're often just cannon fodder. I notices if I was paying premium I seemed to get a lot more matches where I was in the top half of the tier bracket. While playing free, I always seemed to be in the bottom half. Any of these games are all about boiling the frog and cashing in on the whales.

 

[Stuka87]

They are all great fun for the first few tier and then progress slows to a grind. Individual models cost as much as a full game once they know they have you hooked. There are PTW consumables, and while I can't prove it I pretty sure the tier system is rigged. You get put in games within a couple tiers of your rank. If you're the lowest in the game you're often just cannon fodder. I notices if I was paying premium I seemed to get a lot more matches where I was in the top half of the tier bracket. While playing free, I always seemed to be in the bottom half. Any of these games are all about boiling the frog and cashing in on the whales.

Progressing through a tier is entirely dependent on player skill. If you are a lower skill player, yeah, it may take hundreds of games to get through Tier 8 for instance. While a better player may do it in 70 or 80.

All consumables in WoT can be bought with in game silver, or in game bonds. These are earned by playing, the better you play, the more you earn (Yes you can technically buy silver, but there is by no means a need to do that).

The tier system isn't rigged. Standard tanks have a +2/-2 MM. Meaning they can see tanks two tiers above, or below. Some tanks have Premium MM (Such as the Super Pershing), which means they are +1/-2, or in some cases +0/-2 (PzB2) meaning they are always top tier.

Now there was an issue in the Match maker before 2 weeks ago when they overhauled the MM which would often put Tier 6 and Tier 8 as bottom tier. But this has been resolved and it is way better now.

And yes, there are tanks you can buy, and some do cost as much as a whole game. But, they should be looked at as dollars per hour of entertainment. If you pay $30 for a standalone game, and play it through for 30 hours, thats 1 dollar per hour. Which isn't bad, way cheaper than the Movies which is typically around $8 per hour. So lets say you buy a Tier 8 premium tanks for $37, and proceed to play it for 200 games, with an average game length of 5 minutes. Thats 1000 minutes of play time, which equates to 16.6 hours, or $0.45 per hour. The only way you are going to get more entertainment for less is if you never put any money into it at all. Which is totally feasible and up to the player.

 

[Midwayman]

Progressing through a tier is entirely dependent on player skill. If you are a lower skill player, yeah, it may take hundreds of games to get through Tier 8 for instance. While a better player may do it in 70 or 80.

Doesn't change the fact that its an exponential sort of system and has repair cost structured to significantly impede free players at higher tiers. Sure if you're an amazing player its possible not have to subsidize your tier x.

All consumables in WoT can be bought with in game silver, or in game bonds. These are earned by playing, the better you play, the more you earn (Yes you can technically buy silver, but there is by no means a need to do that).

And how does that not make it PTW? You can buy things with in game advantage. Being able to use them for free every once in awhile doesn't negate that.

The tier system isn't rigged. Standard tanks have a +2/-2 MM. Meaning they can see tanks two tiers above, or below. Some tanks have Premium MM (Such as the Super Pershing), which means they are +1/-2, or in some cases +0/-2 (PzB2) meaning they are always top tier.

In other words it is rigged. Explicitly.

And yes, there are tanks you can buy, and some do cost as much as a whole game. But, they should be looked at as dollars per hour of entertainment. If you pay $30 for a standalone game, and play it through for 30 hours, thats 1 dollar per hour. Which isn't bad, way cheaper than the Movies which is typically around $8 per hour. So lets say you buy a Tier 8 premium tanks for $37, and proceed to play it for 200 games, with an average game length of 5 minutes. Thats 1000 minutes of play time, which equates to 16.6 hours, or $0.45 per hour. The only way you are going to get more entertainment for less is if you never put any money into it at all. Which is totally feasible and up to the player.

Or you could buy something like battle field for $60 that is a WHOLE game and play it for literally 1000's of hours. Your money. Do what makes you happy, but lets not pretend that a single new tank for $37 is a good value relative to other similar forms of entertainment.

I mean WOT and War Thunder aren't bad games. I enjoyed them when I played. They have horrible business models however and are design to milk an absurd amount of money out of you if you stick with them. For someone looking at starting them I think its a good idea to go in knowing what you're getting into. Before you know it you'll have spent $300 on a game that probably would have cost $30-40 retail under a traditional pricing model.

 

[Craig234]

I think WoT has done pretty well on the business model overall, but it's probably too generous (not a lot of games to say that about - Spellweaver is another). My main gripe is premium ammo, bu they even changed that years ago to be sold for in-game credits as an option.

 

[ibex333]

Played War Thunder extensively over last two weeks, and it IS totally pay to win. Money totally trumps experience or skill. I am playing Rank 1, BR 1 Tank realistic battles, and getting completely owned by premium German and Italian vehicles, especially those who spend 500 golden eagles a pop on bushes. There is no way to see a completely covered bushed camper who attached bushes on all sides.

People just sit there, inside their "premium" bushes and snipe the hell out of everyone raking up exp, credits and joy, while you get griefed in your slow, paper thin beginner tank. It's just non-stop grief, tears and anger. I don't need that shit in my life. And believe me, I tried many many times over and over and the result is always the same. I tried to camp, hide, or be aggressive and attack, and no matter what, I lose approximately 8 times out of 10. It's just a nightmare.


Perhaps if I was in a group/team, or some sort of clan, I'd have a different experience, but as a solo player it's just a waste of my time.

I'm not saying I quit, I'll still play on occasion. It's semi-free after all, but I do think just about anyone time is better spent elsewhere as opposed to getting one-shotted non-stop by other players in a slow, weak tank.

 

[Harrod]

I've played War Thunder tanks quite a bit, honestly the game is alot of fun at tiers 2-3, after that it's too much of a one shot game once the tanks get the modern ammo types.

If you want to win, you have to know where the weak spots are on the armor, going head to head shots on the front of the enemy is not a good strategy. Then again, the game is all about who you match with enemy wise like somone else posted in here. Don't select your line up with tanks that have huge differences between the BRs. If you have 2 BR1 tanks and a BR2.8 tank, your going to have a rough time in the game once your BR2.8 tank is out of the action.

 

[Craig234]

Played War Thunder extensively over last two weeks, and it IS totally pay to win. Money totally trumps experience or skill. I am playing Rank 1, BR 1 Tank realistic battles, and getting completely owned by premium German and Italian vehicles, especially those who spend 500 golden eagles a pop on bushes. There is no way to see a completely covered bushed camper who attached bushes on all sides.

People just sit there, inside their "premium" bushes and snipe the hell out of everyone raking up exp, credits and joy, while you get griefed in your slow, paper thin beginner tank. It's just non-stop grief, tears and anger. I don't need that shit in my life. And believe me, I tried many many times over and over and the result is always the same. I tried to camp, hide, or be aggressive and attack, and no matter what, I lose approximately 8 times out of 10. It's just a nightmare.


Perhaps if I was in a group/team, or some sort of clan, I'd have a different experience, but as a solo player it's just a waste of my time.

I'm not saying I quit, I'll still play on occasion. It's semi-free after all, but I do think just about anyone time is better spent elsewhere as opposed to getting one-shotted non-stop by other players in a slow, weak tank.

Interesting. I've seen games like that, where the 'free' part seems largely to be to get to have the playing players do bad things to your chars. I think my name for that type of game is 'free to prey'. (My name for 'free to play' games that are much too limited for free players almost requiring spending money is 'free to pay'.)

They have to give enough to the free player to keep them coming back, but the business model seems to be largely the 'prey' player and the pay player who gets to enjoy the 'victory'. The bargain seems to be that the free players who put a lot of time in can gain a bit of the benefits to get to be 'victor' against newer free players, giving them a carrot to log in.

 

[gorobei]

Played War Thunder extensively over last two weeks, and it IS totally pay to win. Money totally trumps experience or skill. I am playing Rank 1, BR 1 Tank realistic battles, and getting completely owned by premium German and Italian vehicles, especially those who spend 500 golden eagles a pop on bushes. There is no way to see a completely covered bushed camper who attached bushes on all sides.

People just sit there, inside their "premium" bushes and snipe the hell out of everyone raking up exp, credits and joy, while you get griefed in your slow, paper thin beginner tank. It's just non-stop grief, tears and anger. I don't need that shit in my life. And believe me, I tried many many times over and over and the result is always the same. I tried to camp, hide, or be aggressive and attack, and no matter what, I lose approximately 8 times out of 10. It's just a nightmare.


Perhaps if I was in a group/team, or some sort of clan, I'd have a different experience, but as a solo player it's just a waste of my time.

I'm not saying I quit, I'll still play on occasion. It's semi-free after all, but I do think just about anyone time is better spent elsewhere as opposed to getting one-shotted non-stop by other players in a slow, weak tank.

you can play arcade and the bushes wont matter since everyone's icon is displayed at spotting range. but if you are seeing veterans at T1 then you did something wrong and left the new player sandbox by buying a BR3.0 vehicle too soon. also bushes can be earn for free by doing warbond tasks.

Interesting. I've seen games like that, where the 'free' part seems largely to be to get to have the playing players do bad things to your chars. I think my name for that type of game is 'free to prey'. (My name for 'free to play' games that are much too limited for free players almost requiring spending money is 'free to pay'.)

They have to give enough to the free player to keep them coming back, but the business model seems to be largely the 'prey' player and the pay player who gets to enjoy the 'victory'. The bargain seems to be that the free players who put a lot of time in can gain a bit of the benefits to get to be 'victor' against newer free players, giving them a carrot to log in.

most of these free2play games operate on the 10% rule. 10% of the game population will spend money because they enjoy the game experience, thereby funding development. if the money comes from cosmetics there is no downside to free players. if it comes from shortening the techtree/upgrades grind then it is marginally since the pay players will be at higher tier battles. if it comes from expendable/consumables that increase combat effectiveness they yes it is predatory.
the better devs know that they need to keep the player population at a certain level in order for matchmaking to assemble a pool of players in a reasonable amount of time. if it takes more than 60-90 seconds of waiting to get into a match then players will start looking to other games. if the concurrent population dips below that certain level it is usually the end of the game.
im surprised the op felt WoWS was pay to win. my understanding was that wargaming employees on their personal accounts had to grind like any other customer (ie no freebies or dev hack unlocks) and the daily tasks awarded you free gold/prem currency.

 

[Canun]

I was in the Beta for WoT and was a very casual player. The highest level tank I had was a Tier 8, and was going broke every time I played it. I have found that both in WoT and WoWS, the higher tier battles will end up costing you in game currency. I have had victories where I killed two tanks, but was damaged. I ended up losing money on a win with kills. If you don't have premium, the grind is extremely challenging. I spent over a year of my admittedly limited play time trying to level up my German tank destroyers. I'm still stuck on a level 7. The combo of rougher match making and less xp is a tough thing to over come.

 

[Craig234]

nm

 

[mopardude87]

I was in the Beta for WoT and was a very casual player. The highest level tank I had was a Tier 8, and was going broke every time I played it. I have found that both in WoT and WoWS, the higher tier battles will end up costing you in game currency. I have had victories where I killed two tanks, but was damaged. I ended up losing money on a win with kills. If you don't have premium, the grind is extremely challenging. I spent over a year of my admittedly limited play time trying to level up my German tank destroyers. I'm still stuck on a level 7. The combo of rougher match making and less xp is a tough thing to over come.

This was me too i lost more in tier 7 then anything. Then again i was a bit new and thought it was kind of a brilliant idea to snipe with the 122mm cannon on the IS too LOL.Sometimes you can miss the side of a barn with it too . I jumped down the american line and holy heck the T29 is a whole other beast. I have had so many good games in that tank, my rating would be way better i think of i had ran the T29 over the IS. Sadly the T32 rubbed me the wrong way so the T29 sits in the garage being what i think is the pinnacle of the american heavies honestly. It's my go to tier 7 heavy. DPM may be lower but nothing scares people more then a hull down T29 honestly.

Personally tier 5-6 is where most of the fun is. You don't need premium time or ammo usually as most of those guns got fairly good pen and you can be a bit wreckless sometimes without it costing you dearly too. Also the games don't feel as serious too. I ran my IS-7 in some bad games losing a easy 50k at times and every other bad game i had people insulting me over my play style. You can jump a Cromwell into a lake a minute into a match and its nothing but lol in chat but miss a shot in a IS-7 and for me it was insult city. The IS-7 armor kind of trolls me coming from what i thought was a horrible IS-8. Everyone and their mother penned the IS-8 and going back to the IS-3 playstyle resulted in more disaster in the IS-7 then anything then again many people spam the holy hell out of Premium ammo too.

If and when i jump into tier 8 games,its mostly in my CDC or Tiger 2 and well i have seen people kill themselves trying to get a shot into my CDC cause well any and all tanks i run across aren't having a issue penning me. Its downright hysterical when people see me its like christmas for them. Many people should respect the Tiger 2 more, its a dang near TD with a turret honestly and its hard to deny German accuracy.