Please rate my $350 build for grad school!

[college_student]

Hi all,

New here. I'm about to get the following to build a computer for me to go to grad school. Please let me know if everything looks good, or recommend changes.

I will use it for: (a) watching 1080p stuff, (b) programming, (c) office apps


CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor (Bundled w/ Mobo)
Mobo: ASRock FM2A75M-DGS Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($175 @ Newegg)
Hard Drive: OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($90 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Intel Extreme Master, Limited Ed 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($30 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($30 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($25 @ Newegg)

Total: $350
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

I have/University will provide the rest of the things (Monitor, Keyboard/Mouse, DVD Burner, Windows OS, Software, etc).

Thanks much,
-DV

 

[crazymonkeyzero]

CPU: good
Mobo: good
Hard Drive: BAD
Memory: good
Case: good
Power Supply: good

Overall decent build for most tasks. A10 has good integrated graphics, and is a decent chip for budget builders for that reason. However the ssd could be better.OCZ SSDs are not reliable. In fact, to be blunt, they suck. Go with Samsung 830 series or Crucial M4 You can get 128gb for pretty cheap these days and still keep peace of mind your data will be safe.

Edit: You may want to add a hard drive unless 128gb will be enough. But it's easy to add it in the future.

 

[Ken g6]

CPU/Mobo: Any particular reason you're going AMD instead of Intel? You wouldn't happen to be near a Micro Center, would you? They have great CPU deals in-store. If you go Intel, here's a good $63 Intel mobo. Then, pick whichever CPU you can afford.
Hard Drive: You should probably spend more ($105) to get a better SSD.
Memory: Awesome deal!
Case/PSU: Good.

 

[lambchops511]

Hi all,

New here. I'm about to get the following to build a computer for me to go to grad school. Please let me know if everything looks good, or recommend changes.

I will use it for: (a) watching 1080p stuff, (b) programming, (c) office apps


CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor (Bundled w/ Mobo)
Mobo: ASRock FM2A75M-DGS Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($175 @ Newegg)
Hard Drive: OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($90 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Intel Extreme Master, Limited Ed 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($30 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($30 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($25 @ Newegg)

Total: $350
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

I have/University will provide the rest of the things (Monitor, Keyboard/Mouse, DVD Burner, Windows OS, Software, etc).

Thanks much,
-DV

Assuming your data is of value and of high important since you are a grad student, I wouldn't trust anyone other than Intel and maybe Crucial / Samsung.

 

[crazymonkeyzero]

Assuming your data is of value and of high important since you are a grad student, I wouldn't trust anyone other than Intel and maybe Crucial / Samsung.

TBH, Crucial and Samsung use more reliable controllers than Intel's tweaked sandforce on their SSDs; although all 3 are miles ahead of OCZ. I think most people would agree.

 

[college_student]

CPU/Mobo: Any particular reason you're going AMD instead of Intel? You wouldn't happen to be near a Micro Center, would you? They have great CPU deals in-store. If you go Intel, here's a good $63 Intel mobo. Then, pick whichever CPU you can afford.
Hard Drive: You should probably spend more ($105) to get a better SSD.
Memory: Awesome deal!
Case/PSU: Good.

For my budget, I thought most people agreed that AMD is better (price v. performance). Basically, the A10 is better than any Intel Chip in that price range for similar performance. Also the built in 7660D eliminates the need for me to spend another ~$60 on a GPU (e.g. something like a HD6670). Do you agree with my assessment?

CPU: good
Mobo: good
Hard Drive: BAD
Memory: good
Case: good
Power Supply: good

Overall decent build for most tasks. A10 has good integrated graphics, and is a decent chip for budget builders for that reason. However the ssd could be better.OCZ SSDs are not reliable. In fact, to be blunt, they suck. Go with Samsung 830 series or Crucial M4 You can get 128gb for pretty cheap these days and still keep peace of mind your data will be safe.

Edit: You may want to add a hard drive unless 128gb will be enough. But it's easy to add it in the future.

TBH, Crucial and Samsung use more reliable controllers than Intel's tweaked sandforce on their SSDs; although all 3 are miles ahead of OCZ. I think most people would agree.

I have a few 150/250GB traditional 5400rpm HDDs lying around which I would use for data, backups etc. The SSD was mainly for the OS and my applications. I picked the OCZ one because it seemed to have the best price v. performance (90K/120K IOPS for Random Read/Writes). I couldn't find anything else for ~same price for similar performance. Can you guys recommend some? The Samsung/Cruicial ones didn't seem to have the same performance..am I missing something (I'm new to SSDs, so please excuse my ignorance, I'm basing everything I know on a few articles I read online)?

Thanks much,
-DV

 

[crazymonkeyzero]

I picked the OCZ one because it seemed to have the best price v. performance (90K/120K IOPS for Random Read/Writes). I couldn't find anything else for ~same price for similar performance. Can you guys recommend some? The Samsung/Cruicial ones didn't seem to have the same performance..am I missing something (I'm new to SSDs, so please excuse my ignorance, I'm basing everything I know on a few articles I read online)?

It's quite simple and boils down to this.

If you care about your data integrity go with the samsung/crucial.These brands are known to be the most reliable due to their custom controllers (this is essential for SSD longevity) and plenty fast as well. If you don't care, then buy that ocz drive. For all practical purposes you will not notice a difference in speed between the two in every day tasks, even if the ocz is slightly faster on paper. For 100$ ish, I really can't really recommend anything else.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I picked the OCZ one because it seemed to have the best price v. performance (90K/120K IOPS for Random Read/Writes). I couldn't find anything else for ~same price for similar performance.

Those scores are due to a "benchmark cheat" in the firmware, and you will only get that kind of performance if the SSD is less than half full.

Edit: Not to mention, OCZ as a going concern might not exist in six months. While they are supposedly good with RMAs, how are you going to RMA your drive if they are bankrupt.

 

[lambchops511]

For my budget, I thought most people agreed that AMD is better (price v. performance). Basically, the A10 is better than any Intel Chip in that price range for similar performance. Also the built in 7660D eliminates the need for me to spend another ~$60 on a GPU (e.g. something like a HD6670). Do you agree with my assessment?





I have a few 150/250GB traditional 5400rpm HDDs lying around which I would use for data, backups etc. The SSD was mainly for the OS and my applications. I picked the OCZ one because it seemed to have the best price v. performance (90K/120K IOPS for Random Read/Writes). I couldn't find anything else for ~same price for similar performance. Can you guys recommend some? The Samsung/Cruicial ones didn't seem to have the same performance..am I missing something (I'm new to SSDs, so please excuse my ignorance, I'm basing everything I know on a few articles I read online)?

Thanks much,
-DV

Well, even if you have backups, I assume you're not backing up every hour. There's a significant high probability (>10%) that your drive might fail within a year, imagine your drive failing before an assignment was due or before exam time. Isn't this insurance policy of buying a drive with probably a magnitude of lower failure rate worth more than $50?

 

[slayernine]

CPU: good
Mobo: good
Hard Drive: BAD
Memory: good
Case: good
Power Supply: good

I concur, stay away from OCZ SSD's, they are just bad news in the reliability department.

 

[Ken g6]

For my budget, I thought most people agreed that AMD is better (price v. performance).

Well, I'm stunned that any Bulldozer chip is pulling similar numbers to an i3 at stock. On the other hand, we're talking about a range of $30 from the high-end Pentiums (slower than A10, <=$100), to the i3-2100 (equal to A10, $115@Newegg), to the i3-3220 (faster than A10, $130).

As far as the GPU goes, Intel's onboard GPUs are fine too if you're not gaming (or maybe 3D rendering or something.) If you're doing anything like that, or if you plan to overclock, go with the A10.

 

[college_student]

Dear all,

Ok, you have all convinced me that OCZ is bad news, and I much rather spend $10-$20 more and have peace of mind. I have decided to go with the Samsung 830 Series drive. I will probably wait for a deal to get it around $100. Thanks all!

Well, I'm stunned that any Bulldozer chip is pulling similar numbers to an i3 at stock. On the other hand, we're talking about a range of $30 from the high-end Pentiums (slower than A10, <=$100), to the i3-2100 (equal to A10, $115@Newegg), to the i3-3220 (faster than A10, $130).

As far as the GPU goes, Intel's onboard GPUs are fine too if you're not gaming (or maybe 3D rendering or something.) If you're doing anything like that, or if you plan to overclock, go with the A10.

I have always had intel and I would love to get Intel again, but honestly, I don't know if its worth it in this scenario. I would end up paying a little bit more, for performance which I don't know if I would notice. Also, I do watch/encode 1080p movies, and sometimes handbrake them, etc. For those purposes, as you said, the A10 would be better. Also, according to this, the A10 does better than the i3-3220: PassMark CPU Benchmarks

I still really appreciate yours and everyone else's help.

Thanks,
-DV

 

[infoiltrator]

OCZ Vertex 4 have been solid performers.

A-5800/MOTHERBOARD $175 is good

iNTEL is also an option
Asrock B75 Motherboard $63/Pentium G850 $70/ HD 6670 $72 before rebate/ $205
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Graphics-Cards

The Trinity rig offers 4 cores and near HD 6670 graphics
Amd is promising to keep FM2 in use for another generation

Pentium is only dual core, but offers serious CPU upgrade options and a discrete card is resellable if upgrade needed.

An I3 3220 would equal A-5800 CPU performance. HD2500 video would not.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

For my budget, I thought most people agreed that AMD is better (price v. performance). Basically, the A10 is better than any Intel Chip in that price range for similar performance. Also the built in 7660D eliminates the need for me to spend another ~$60 on a GPU (e.g. something like a HD6670). Do you agree with my assessment?

I do indeed sir. You would get slightly higher CPU performance from an Intel chip, but Intels HD graphics is nothing to write home about. And they have poor driver support in games.

As for that OCZ drive, if you value your data go with an Intel or Samsung drive instead. As others have pointed out OCZ has a bad reputation for reliability...

Make sure you have a robust backup system for your valuable data...()🙂

 

[mfenn]

For my budget, I thought most people agreed that AMD is better (price v. performance). Basically, the A10 is better than any Intel Chip in that price range for similar performance. Also the built in 7660D eliminates the need for me to spend another ~$60 on a GPU (e.g. something like a HD6670). Do you agree with my assessment?

First things first, Passmark is a pure synthetic that means absolutely nothing. Use the Anandtech Bench for true comparisons.

Second, like all Bulldozer-derived architectures, the "quad core" is really a dual core with two extra integer units. You get more of a boost than you would from HyperThreading, but not nearly as much as you would from having four real cores, especially not in floating-point intensive tasks like encoding.

As you can see, the $130 dual-core i3 3220 is pretty much equal to the A10 in highly threaded tasks, but blows it out of the water in single threaded tasks. Since most productivity type applications boil down to a single thread, the i3 is faster. It's also in the same price range and uses half the power.

I have a few 150/250GB traditional 5400rpm HDDs lying around which I would use for data, backups etc. The SSD was mainly for the OS and my applications. I picked the OCZ one because it seemed to have the best price v. performance (90K/120K IOPS for Random Read/Writes). I couldn't find anything else for ~same price for similar performance. Can you guys recommend some? The Samsung/Cruicial ones didn't seem to have the same performance..am I missing something (I'm new to SSDs, so please excuse my ignorance, I'm basing everything I know on a few articles I read online)?

There's lies, damn lies, and then there's marketing. I have no doubt that under a given workload, the Vertex 4 can pull off those numbers. I do however doubt whether that workload is relevant to a desktop user or is in any way comparable to the performance numbers posted by other manufacturers. Again, the Anandtech Bench (SSD section) is your friend. The Vertex 4 is indeed a fast drive, but it doesn't blow the (much more proven) competition out of the water.

So with all that in mind, I would recommend:

i3 3220 $130
ASrock B75M-DGS $55
Crucial M4 128GB $100

You will probably end up paying $20 more, but you'll get a more reliable, cooler, and quieter system without losing any performance.

 

[college_student]

First things first, Passmark is a pure synthetic that means absolutely nothing. Use the Anandtech Bench for true comparisons.

Second, like all Bulldozer-derived architectures, the "quad core" is really a dual core with two extra integer units. You get more of a boost than you would from HyperThreading, but not nearly as much as you would from having four real cores, especially not in floating-point intensive tasks like encoding.

As you can see, the $130 dual-core i3 3220 is pretty much equal to the A10 in highly threaded tasks, but blows it out of the water in single threaded tasks. Since most productivity type applications boil down to a single thread, the i3 is faster. It's also in the same price range and uses half the power.



There's lies, damn lies, and then there's marketing. I have no doubt that under a given workload, the Vertex 4 can pull off those numbers. I do however doubt whether that workload is relevant to a desktop user or is in any way comparable to the performance numbers posted by other manufacturers. Again, the Anandtech Bench (SSD section) is your friend. The Vertex 4 is indeed a fast drive, but it doesn't blow the (much more proven) competition out of the water.

So with all that in mind, I would recommend:

i3 3220 $130
ASrock B75M-DGS $55
Crucial M4 128GB $100

You will probably end up paying $20 more, but you'll get a more reliable, cooler, and quieter system without losing any performance.

Dear mfenn,

You have made my decision so difficult! You have made some very good points for the i3-3220. My only concerns are: (a) do you think the A10 will beat out the i3 for muti-threaded tasks? In particular, if I do parallel programming (i.e. launch say multiple instances of Matlab), then the extra cores will come in handy from the A10. (b) The 7660D is much more powerful than the HD2500. This means that I will likely need to purchase an external GPU with the i3. This would add a decent amount of cost to my current system.

I was going to go for the Samsung 830; do you think the Crucial M4 is better/the way to go?

Finally, the mobo you listed is a little bit worse than the one I had (i.e. the number of 6Gbps SATA ports, etc), and since its unbundled it costs me like $10 more.

Thanks,
-DV

 

[lambchops511]

Matlab definitely plays better w. Intel chips. MUCH more optimizations goes towards intel chips.

 

[Cerb]

Re: SSD: like others have said, just don't. OCZ is about to go under. Maybe someone will come in and buy them whole, if they fear one of the few pieces they want (like Indilnix) is about to go to another company in bankrupty, but that's really the best case, right now. By all accounts, the Vertex 4 is a fine SSD, but I'd stick to a better company, and you'll never notice the performance difference. Really. The corer cases v. a HDD are so much faster that the differences between any fast SSD, today (IE, not JMicron, not SF 1xxx, not Phison, etc.), are mostly splitting hairs.

Right now, due to price and availability, any one of the M4, 830, or Plextor M5, and a 3.5" bracket, if not included, may as well be interchangeable. Between the likes of them, choose by price and availability.

Re: i3: the A10 will beat the i3 only in a small handful of highly-parallel data crunching workloads, and not by that much. The i3, meanwhile, will be as fast or faster at everything else, and IB's IGP is good enough for your needs.

For an HTPC that may need to add real-time filters, the AMD would have a substantial edge, but for playback of most content that's already well-transferred and well-encoded, that's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Re: i3: the A10 will beat the i3 only in a small handful of highly-parallel data crunching workloads, and not by that much. The i3, meanwhile, will be as fast or faster at everything else, and IB's IGP is good enough for your needs.

For an HTPC that may need to add real-time filters, the AMD would have a substantial edge, but for playback of most content that's already well-transferred and well-encoded, that's more trouble than it's worth.

Don't even try to game on an Intel GPU, just don't, especially the HD2500...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6332/amd-trinity-a10-5800k-a8-5600k-review-part-1/9

Anand says it pretty well...

As for general CPU performance, look at the charts in anandtech's review. Realistically we are looking at a difference of ~1-5s in completion time. Is the i3 faster, yes. Is it fast enough that you will be able to tell the difference, no...

my 2c...

 

[infoiltrator]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/675?vs=677

Both have advantages/disadvantages

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Assuming your data is of value and of high important since you are a grad student, I wouldn't trust anyone other than Intel and maybe Crucial / Samsung.

If his data is THAT important, he's better off with a crap SSD and a good backup solution. Even a "good" HDD/SSD can fail.

Carbonite or something.

 

[mfenn]

Forewarning: please don't take my matter of fact tone as being patronizing, I'm just trying to educate here. 🙂

(a) do you think the A10 will beat out the i3 for muti-threaded tasks? In particular, if I do parallel programming (i.e. launch say multiple instances of Matlab), then the extra cores will come in handy from the A10.

No, it will not. Remember what I said about the A10 only really being a dual core with two extra integer units thrown in? Matlab is almost purely floating point in nature, so those extra units won't do you any good. And like lambchops pointed out, Matlab uses Intel MKL as the basis for its linear algebra operations. MKL is (naturally) heavily optimized for Intel chips.

(b) The 7660D is much more powerful than the HD2500. This means that I will likely need to purchase an external GPU with the i3. This would add a decent amount of cost to my current system.

Sure, if you're gonna pull new requirements out of the blue like that. Nothing you wrote prior to this post indicated that any GPU-intensive tasks were going to be performed.

I was going to go for the Samsung 830; do you think the Crucial M4 is better/the way to go?

No, the Samsung 830 is definitely better than the M4. It costs more though.

Finally, the mobo you listed is a little bit worse than the one I had (i.e. the number of 6Gbps SATA ports, etc),

You only need enough SATA 6Gb/s ports to match the number of SSDs in the system. 6Gb/s is entirely superfluous for HDD and ODD applications. When choosing a motherboard, always look at the features you need relative to the price, not the absolute number of features.

and since its unbundled it costs me like $10 more.

Now I'm really confused? I saved you $10 on the SSD (vs. the 830) so that should cover the cost here.

 

[college_student]

Dear mfenn,

Thank you very much for your response. I have a few follow-up questions.

No, it will not. Remember what I said about the A10 only really being a dual core with two extra integer units thrown in? Matlab is almost purely floating point in nature, so those extra units won't do you any good. And like lambchops pointed out, Matlab uses Intel MKL as the basis for its linear algebra operations. MKL is (naturally) heavily optimized for Intel chips.

Will I see a noticeable difference in everyday use (defined by: 1080p playback, programming--both parallel, and single-threaded, copying files, playing around with images and video, computer vision, etc)? Minor differences or a difference of <5-7 seconds don't bother me that much.

Sure, if you're gonna pull new requirements out of the blue like that. Nothing you wrote prior to this post indicated that any GPU-intensive tasks were going to be performed.

I apologize, what I meant to clarify was this: if there is no noticeable difference in everyday tasks, then I rather go with the processor that has the better graphics. While I may not have listed any GPU intensive tasks, I would like to leave the option open, in case in the future I need it. Also, I do computer vision and image processing type stuff (nothing hardcore, just some stuff in Matlab and OpenCV; no need for a dedicated card per se).

The Big Question: Is the benefit of the CPU of the i3-3220 enough to beat out the benefit of the GPU of the A10. In other words, this is a balancing act, so for my everyday use, which is a better "bang for the buck"?

 

[mfenn]

Is clicking on icons and watching Youtube videos going to be noticeably different between the two platforms? No. Once you get into any sort of heavy floating point number crunching, you will really see a difference between the i3 and the A10 (in the i3's favor).

As for the GPU, the way I look at it is that while the IGP in the A10 is good relative to the one in the i3, they're both still pretty bad in an absolute sense. Either is fine for light tasks. If your workload changes to something that is GPU dependent, you will want to upgrade anyway.

 

[lambchops511]

If his data is THAT important, he's better off with a crap SSD and a good backup solution. Even a "good" HDD/SSD can fail.

Carbonite or something.

Negative. Even if you assume you backup nightly, lose 1 day of work should be worth the <$100 premium of an more expensive drive. Consider it a weak insurance policy.