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[Jeff7181]

I seem to remember lots of talk about the GF4 and GFFX way before their release dates... nVidia was talking about the FX a lot a year before the release... now these new GPU's are supposedly 3-4 months away, and we don't even know what clock speed they might run at.

 

[Richdog]

Yeah it does seem a little strange, I used to really look forward to reading the many 'Previews' and hype that surrounded the coming months of new video card releases. Even a load of Google searches turn up diddly sh|t. Either they're not quite as impressive as they're making out, or they're running some kind of PC user torture campaign.:beer:

 

[Jeff7181]

A third possibility would be that they're farther from release than either company wants to admit.

 

[cm123]

PCI Express I think playes a part in slower than normal talk/release dates. We are not only getting new GPU's, also new bus in the mix.

 

[Richdog]

The plot thickens....lol.:beer:

 

[Quixfire]

I believe the next level of GPUs will be geared towards PCI Express. The shear increase in bandwidth would allow them to stomp the last introduced video cards and start and upgrade frenzy.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
I believe the next level of GPUs will be geared towards PCI Express. The shear increase in bandwidth would allow them to stomp the last introduced video cards and start and upgrade frenzy.

Is the 8X AGP bus REALLY being saturated right now though?

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Quixfire
I believe the next level of GPUs will be geared towards PCI Express. The shear increase in bandwidth would allow them to stomp the last introduced video cards and start and upgrade frenzy.

Is the 8X AGP bus REALLY being saturated right now though?

I believe it just is another strategy to sell MoBos. AGP 8x has almost no performance inpact nowadays so it isn't pushed.

 

[lifeguard1999]

I think that the real reason things are quiet is because it is the slow season. (Except for AMD which is releasing unannounced CPUs.) Given that the next gen cards will be announced probably in late February to March (and available sometime in April), I do not expect much "chatter" or "talk" or rumors until we get closer to those dates.

 

[Jeff7181]

Maybe they're clamming up so the competition doesn't know what to expect?

 

[Genx87]

There really wasnt much known about the FX before release either. There still isnt much known about the actual arch except some speculation.

 

[Pete]

nV was probably forced to release info on the FX way ahead of release because ATi launched the 9700 Pro so early.

Announcing new products well before launch when your competitor is perceived to be about even with you is financially idiotic, though, as it may make buyers hold off buying your current cards (thus leaving you with excess and fast-depreciating inventory) in anticipation of the new ones.

Anyway, as many 3D writers have noted, both companies are very tight-lipped about architectural details even after launch. so don't expect much until just before review samples.

If it's details you want, NFI:GPU:RW has lots of detailed rumors on the NV30. Also, current rumors put the R420 as eight-pipeline but much-enhanced (meaning more shader power per clock). As it seems both companies will stick with 256-bit memory buses for the upcoming gen, more than eight pixel pipes is somewhat wasteful.

Edit: Link to latest R420 rumors.

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Maybe they're clamming up so the competition doesn't know what to expect?

That's what I tend to believe. With both new generations due out so close together, both companies are being even more tight-lipped than usual.

 

[EarthwormJim]

Maybe there really isnt much to anounce about these new cards. There's no real new version of DX coming out, so basically all these new cards are is better and faster versions of the previous ones. I really doubt that PCI-Express is the cause of any delayes since motherboards with it are probobly half a year away.

 

[BenSkywalker]

There's no real new version of DX coming out, so basically all these new cards are is better and faster versions of the previous ones.

None of the current boards match full DX9 specs, they actually still have a ways to go. I fully expect that the upcoming parts will support PS/VS 3.0(which is part of DX9), nVidia may even combine the shader units to one shared pool instead of the seperate shader units they have now(that should be the norm for DX10 hardware, it requires FP32 though so I'm not expecting ATi to make that big of a change).

For lack of news, nVidia got burned pretty bad with how their hype way early campaign went last year and they have stated they won't let info hit until 10K boards are ready to ship. If it wasn't for how they handled their last round of parts(5950, 5700Ultra) I'd find this unlikely, but they did hit retail very shortly after their launch reviews(within a week IIRC).

 

[Zoinks]

I'd like to think that they are being tight lipped rather than the cards are delayed.

 

[VIAN]

I expect nVIDIA to pull ahead in this next battle. I feel that they are being tight lipped for a very good reason.

 

[reever]

Originally posted by: Genx87
There really wasnt much known about the FX before release either.

Of course there was, we all knew it was going to get 30k 3dmarks and run dawn which can't be run by anybody else, NV hyped the product for its entire delay

 

[Genx87]

Of course there was, we all knew it was going to get 30k 3dmarks and run dawn which can't be run by anybody else, NV hyped the product for its entire delay


And what about the arch does that really tell you or us?

 

[PliotronX]

Originally posted by: VIAN
I expect nVIDIA to pull ahead in this next battle. I feel that they are being tight lipped for a very good reason.

No way dude, it's all about the S3 :wine:

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: VIAN
I expect nVIDIA to pull ahead in this next battle. I feel that they are being tight lipped for a very good reason.

native FP-24 precision on the FX design would yield massive performance increases if they changed NOTHING else. I think i can believe the leaked info about 100% increases in DX9 performance but its all speculation on my part.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: VIAN
I expect nVIDIA to pull ahead in this next battle. I feel that they are being tight lipped for a very good reason.

native FP-24 precision on the FX design would yield massive performance increases if they changed NOTHING else. I think i can believe the leaked info about 100% increases in DX9 performance but its all speculation on my part.

Well, assuming added support for FX-24 precision... better core design with more registers for shaders... more mature manufacturing process allowing for higher clock speeds... higher quality RAM... plus they're now very experience at tailoring drivers to a game's needs... it's not IMPOSSIBLE... but I think 100% increases is a little optimistic... unless you're talking about the FX5950 vs. the best NV40 card that will ever be made.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: VIAN
I expect nVIDIA to pull ahead in this next battle. I feel that they are being tight lipped for a very good reason.

native FP-24 precision on the FX design would yield massive performance increases if they changed NOTHING else. I think i can believe the leaked info about 100% increases in DX9 performance but its all speculation on my part.

Well, assuming added support for FX-24 precision... better core design with more registers for shaders... more mature manufacturing process allowing for higher clock speeds... higher quality RAM... plus they're now very experience at tailoring drivers to a game's needs... it's not IMPOSSIBLE... but I think 100% increases is a little optimistic... unless you're talking about the FX5950 vs. the best NV40 card that will ever be made.

thats exactly what im talking about , the FX5950 is kinda dull in DX9 so an FP-24 native chip with GDDR3, increased clockspeeds, more registers, id believe 100% increases in DX9 (no friggin way in OGL/DX8 though)

 

[BenSkywalker]

Native FP24? Why not go all the way and support 4bit color, or grayscale even?

There is no way they are going to regress back to a more primitive core at this point. ATi will be moving to FP32 at some point in time, they will have no choice in the matter.

native FP-24 precision on the FX design would yield massive performance increases if they changed NOTHING else.

No, it wouldn't. The NV3X's design does not perform as we have seen due to the fact that it uses FP32 alone, it was other design decissions combined with that choice that ended it up where it is. Running FP24 all else being equal the NV3X would perform just like it does now in FP32 except with lower quality.

but I think 100% increases is a little optimistic

It doesn't require much optimisim to see 100% increase in pixel shader performance as completely viable for the NV40(v NV30). The big advantage using PF32 over any other current standard, they can combine the functionality of the Vertex and Pixel shaders in to one large shared shader unit. Besides that, they will certainly rectify the register limitations that made themselves so apparent on the NV3X core. Those factors alone could easily see PixelShader performance up ~100%, but the NV40 is a new core so it is far from unthinkable that they will also add more shader units anyway. How much of that will transfer to games is another matter, we need to start seeing some more shader heavy games before we can really speak much on that aspect(as it stands now we have two, TRAoD and Halo).

 

[Jeff7181]

Doesn't NFSU and KOTOR use PS2.0?