please lock or delete this thread

[notfred]

<<

<< What a stupid religion. >>



Just when I thought the stupid posts on religion and politics couldn't be surpassed by some of the more famous ones in recent AT history, you go and post something like this. Do you have to post your inflammatory crap? I mean, could you not word it a little more nicely instead of coming off as a complete anti-Catholic bigot? It seems that no person who would post something like what you did could form a proper logical argument, so maybe I shouldn't have replied. As for the mods, I wish they would do the right thing and close this. >>



oh please. An anti-Cathloic bigot? I'm sorry, but I don't think you can be bigotted against an idea. If so, I guess I'm also an anti-censorship bigot, and an anti-death penalty bigot.

And I hardly think calling something "stupid" precludes any possibility of me forming a logical argument.
Based on the information, I had, that was the conclusion I came up with. But, if you like, I'll show you how I came up with that conclusion.

Observations on catholicism:
They dont teach the bible, which, according to them is the divinely inspired word of god. Hmm, you'd think that might be important then.
They give you a big list of things you can't do. Well, ok, maybe that's good for keeping you out of trouble.
They make you tell a priest everything you've done wrong, and he tells you to say a bunch of prayers so that you can be forgiven. - now, if god is really an all knowing, all powerful being, wouldn't he be able to tell if you were sorry for your sins or not? What possible good could reciting "hail mary" 25 times do?
They give a good percentage of mass in latin (or they did when my mom went to catholic church, at least). They do this because it's traditional, even though they know that no one in the church understands it. - does this make any sense to you?
They make you eat jiuce and a cracker, and tell you that when you swallow it, it becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ himself. - oh yeah, that one's beleivable. tell me, is canibalism a sin?

yeah, all these things lead me to the conclusion that the religion is stupid.
If anyone wants to take me to a Catholic mass (I admit, I've never been to one) to show me that thier religion is in fact rational, I'll go.

 

[Modeps]

do some real research (you know, maybe some reading, a class or something other than talking to your mother), then get back to me.

 

[IGBT]

They lay a lot of guilt psychology on you then ask for money. And more often then not the guilt vic.opens up the wallet/check book. Oldest scam in the world. All in the name of dog of corse. And the catholics need tons of money to pay for out of court pedophile lawsuit settelments in the US and Canada. Next time you go to confession, as father fondler if he's been holy lately. :Q

 

[Aelus]

<< They dont teach the bible, which, according to them is the divinely inspired word of god. Hmm, you'd think that might be important then. >>



back in the days (50+ years back), the big guys were thinking the common man was too stupid to fully comprehend the bible, that's why they made an easier to comprehend version.

Looking at this post, i'm thinking they weren't too wrong thinking there are alot of morons.



<< They give you a big list of things you can't do. Well, ok, maybe that's good for keeping you out of trouble. >>



most humans are stupid, that's why lists of do's and do not's are good.



<< They make you tell a priest everything you've done wrong, and he tells you to say a bunch of prayers so that you can be forgiven. - now, if god is really an all knowing, all powerful being, wouldn't he be able to tell if you were sorry for your sins or not? What possible good could reciting "hail mary" 25 times do? >>



the core idea is, if you can speak up about what you did wrong, and thus realizing it, and at the same time truly regretting your act, you're forgiven, the rest is silly crap, and while it may be popular, most modern priests will never say stuff like that.




<< They give a good percentage of mass in latin (or they did when my mom went to catholic church, at least). They do this because it's traditional, even though they know that no one in the church understands it. - does this make any sense to you? >>



how old is your mom? 80? this changed in the sixties.



<< They make you eat jiuce and a cracker, and tell you that when you swallow it, it becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ himself. - oh yeah, that one's beleivable. tell me, is canibalism a sin? >>



it's a symbol. do you understand the use of symbols?


Aelus-blowing off steam after studying intensively another day.

 

[Gen Stonewall]

<< Observations on catholicism:
They dont teach the bible, which, according to them is the divinely inspired word of god. Hmm, you'd think that might be important then.
They give you a big list of things you can't do. Well, ok, maybe that's good for keeping you out of trouble.
They make you tell a priest everything you've done wrong, and he tells you to say a bunch of prayers so that you can be forgiven. - now, if god is really an all knowing, all powerful being, wouldn't he be able to tell if you were sorry for your sins or not? What possible good could reciting "hail mary" 25 times do?
They give a good percentage of mass in latin (or they did when my mom went to catholic church, at least). They do this because it's traditional, even though they know that no one in the church understands it. - does this make any sense to you?
They make you eat jiuce and a cracker, and tell you that when you swallow it, it becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ himself. - oh yeah, that one's beleivable. tell me, is canibalism a sin? >>



You sound like a Protestant!

 

[Optimus]

GF: Well, you have resident sex-godess taken, so I had to find something, didn't I?

Hi notfred:

OK, let see if I can clarify a few things you brought up:


<< They dont teach the bible, which, according to them is the divinely inspired word of god. Hmm, you'd think that might be important then. >>


It is tremendously important to us, and we do teach it. But we believe the Bible is not literal and must be interpreted, and that God made the Church to do just that.



<< They give you a big list of things you can't do. Well, ok, maybe that's good for keeping you out of trouble. >>


Well, its not a "list", nor is it actually from the church. Trying to know what God wants us to do and not do from the Bible alone can be tough as everyone can read it a different way, right? So we look to God's Church and say "OK, so is this right or wrong? 'Cause the Bible deosn't mention act X by name either way.". Catholicism can then say that based on our entire system of beliefs (sanctity of life, etc), and guided by God, what it is God wants of us in regard to Act X.

You see, if the Church IS the real deal, then all its doing is communicating God's will, since after all, He put it there for that reason! If the Church isn't the real deal, it would be nothing short of diabolic! Thats how consequential and meaningful the Church's claim is.



<< They make you tell a priest everything you've done wrong, and he tells you to say a bunch of prayers so that you can be forgiven. - now, if god is really an all knowing, all powerful being, wouldn't he be able to tell if you were sorry for your sins or not? What possible good could reciting "hail mary" 25 times do? >>


Confession isn't for God - its for us. Modern pshychologists, on a purely clinical level, marvel at the ability to take away guilt confession has.

Imagine you've wronged a friend. You can think "Hey, he's a good guy and knows I like him, I don't actually have to SAY sorry." - but thats really a cop out, isn't it? If you are sorry, there is something very deep and powerful in not only actually SAYING sorry out loud, but having God, through the priest, say "Its OK - God forgives you.". You aren't telling the priest in confession - you tell God through that priest. In Catholicism, a Priest can stand as an "alter Christus" - another Christ. He is like a direct connection - a link.


<< They give a good percentage of mass in latin (or they did when my mom went to catholic church, at least). They do this because it's traditional, even though they know that no one in the church understands it. - does this make any sense to you? >>



Again, no - it used to be in Latin to preserve the meaining and language through such troubled and chaotic times. As the Mass was always the same words, not only did people know what was being saud, they followed very well. If you know the mass you can attend it in any language. And the priests and schools taught the people what was going on in the mass for centuries, until it was safe to translate it in 1962 (thanks to modern information technologies).


<< They make you eat jiuce and a cracker, and tell you that when you swallow it, it becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ himself. - oh yeah, that one's beleivable. tell me, is canibalism a sin? >>


Yeah - canibalism, the eating of another human, is a sin... except for communion. Transubstantiation is one of the MOST complex and hard to understand parts of the faith. But we truly believe in it. In fact, in the Bible, when Christ first said it, it sasy many left him that day and followes him no more". It is a powerful, mystical, and spiritiual concept that I can't really hope to explain in an internet forum.

 

[IGBT]

chachacha.

 

[Aelus]

<< My opinion hasn't changed, however, my apologies to anyone who was insulted. >>



translated: doh, i spoke up on my opinion, got my ass whooped, but regardless that i was proven to be a biggot, i still feel the same way.

Aelus- texmaster wannabee

 

[Optimus]

<< They lay a lot of guilt psychology on you then ask for money. >>


Actually the Church demands no money, no tithe. In mass there is a silent collection for voluntary donations, because Churches don't heat themselves, and priests need to eat.



<< And the catholics need tons of money to pay for out of court pedophile lawsuit settelments in the US and Canada. Next time you go to confession, as father fondler if he's been holy lately. :Q >>



We Catholics believe in the very real existance of evil. And the most devastating way for evil to destroy something is from within.

The small (yes, it is VERY small) percentage of corrupt priests who commit terrible acts like that is a travesty and a horrible thing indeed. I wish people in the Church would do a better job of ruthlessly stamping such incidents - openly admitting that this priest was evil and wrong and acted not as a priest at all. Then hand them over to the cops forthright! Thankfully, this is starting to happen more.

But the key fact here is that a molesting priest violates and breaks every principle, tenet, and vow of the Catholic faith. There are few worse sins than he could ever commit!

So if a faith says don't, but some people who belong to the faith disobey and do it anyway, can we really then conclude that the faith itself is wrong? Or is this just more evil people?

 

[Optimus]

I'm sorry to see you asking for this thread to be locked, notfred, as I was trying to answer your questions/concerns in a friendly and open discussion.

Anyway, take care.