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please knock some sense into my lil brother

T

TrevpHi

Junior Member
ok heres the deal.
my brother was talkinga bout buying a new gfx card right. he has an 18yr old friend with cert 4 in I.T and he does watever he says when it comes to computers, yes hes good with computers but some of his advice is making my brother waste his money.
I told him there is no point in buying a new gfx card when its a p4 2.4 ghz on a 478 board with 1 gig value ram and a tiny PSU, it will just bottleneck at the CPU/mobo. I told him counter strike SOURCE (a game) is CPU dependant but no him adn his mate say im wrong.

he just bought a 7800GS 256 mb agp card for $290 (i found one for $190 on the net) i told him it would make little - no difference in source. guess wat his fps havnt increased at all suprise suprise. i told him again " i told you source is cpu dependant. besides putting that card in that machine is a waste, its like putting a super charger on a barina" so now instead of listening to me ( i told him to take it back and spend 800$ on a 4600+ am2 system with mobo, ram, cpu, gfx and possibly a new PSU) now he reckons hes found a 3.5 ghz processor for $91. i told him "still a wasyte of money ITS 478 for christ sake. If ghz meant everything dont u think i woulda gone that direction instead of a 2.4 ghz chip. chip architecture has alot to do with it" but noooo he thinks this will get him 100+ fps constant, yeh true it might break 100 but id be extramely suprised if it stayed above 100. when i try tell him he and his mate are wrong he says "ur just scared that mine will b better than yours for $500, bryce has got a cert4 in IT wat would you know, he could get ur computer for 2 grand" then i say "he also said hed get u that gfx card for half price" hmmmm $300 for a 7800GS GOOD BUY MATE!!!! here look at this heres the same card for $190 top job.

anyway i feel guilty because the only reason hes intent on upgrading is cause hes jealous of mine. If he wont listen to me maybe he will listen to you guys. Please can u state whether you think source is CPU dependant or not and if u think that its possible to get 100+fps constant on a 4-5 year old intel socket 478, AGP, 533 mobo.

cheers
 
Irrespective, at this point he's probably wanting to limit upgrades to those that can carry to a new build. I'm not sure about the specific example, but I'd say he will be bottlenecked on CPU architecture so an AGP upgrade of that amount would be a mistake, better to find a deal on an x850xt or similar.
 
Originally posted by: Slammy1
Irrespective, at this point he's probably wanting to limit upgrades to those that can carry to a new build. I'm not sure about the specific example, but I'd say he will be bottlenecked on CPU architecture so an AGP upgrade of that amount would be a mistake, better to find a deal on an x850xt or similar.
Click to expand...

AGP? Socket 478? Save your money. Buy a Core Duo system or an AM2 or Athlon 64 X2 system. Don't blow ~$300 on a system that is way out of date. Yes, it might get 100 FPS in Source, but that's not hard. Want a great system? Get 2 GB of RAM, a 7900GS/GT/GTO (from eVGA for the last one), a Core Duo, AM2, or X2 processor, a better PSU, etc. Sell off your old system. Or be happy with what you have, but for God's sake don't put more money into it.

Brother A (the one who is trying to give good advice) is correct. Brother B (the one who is listening to poor advice from an "IT professional") should listen to A. Just because you're certified in some level of IT doesn't mean you know everything about the industry. Not by a long shot.
 
That is a very naive assumption by your brother.

Sure a better graphics card may give you a bit of performance boost. And sure a better cpu maybe help with processing, but when you keep putting money into older technology you aren't going to have any room to upgrade in the future.

With the release of Core 2 Duo, AMD has slashed their dual core prices. Though Intel obviously wins over AMD, AMD X2 are still great products. He could build a budget system that would be much better than any upgrade you could do with your current system.

P.S. - I assume IT cert 4 is the A+ Certification which is probably one of the easiest cert tests available.
 
So he spent 190.00$ on a 7800gs and wants to spend 90.00$ more for a 3.5 cpu?
I hate to say it but thats a good deal. 280.00$ He would spend that much on ram for a new system! What was his old video card? Tell him to turn up the resolution to 1600x 1200 so the graphics card becomes the bottleneck. mabe even 1280x1024 and setting to high. A 3.5 cpu will max that 7800gs out. Trust me I know look at my system. If his old video card was a 6600gt,6800,9800pro,x800 or below he did the right thing in my opinion.
280.00$ for a 40% increase in performance is real good.
 
Your brother is experiencing a growth stage that everyone goes through. "Ain't nobody going to tell me nuthin." Not especially those close to him, like family. He fiqures somebody else is more smarter in the hood then his family.

Sometimes, its better for them to learn by their mistakes. By that time, it too late. My suggestion is that you let him find out by guiding him to someone who's got computer smarts. Don't you have anyone in your neighborhood or school that fits that description. Maybe a computer club for gamers. Online or whereever. Just somebody to give him info to make right decisions. Wish you luck. 😀
 
Originally posted by: TrevpHi
so now instead of listening to me ( i told him to take it back and spend 800$ on a 4600+ am2 system with mobo, ram, cpu, gfx and possibly a new PSU)
Click to expand...

If you wanted to set him straight, you'd tell him to buy a Core 2 system, not an AM2 system.
 
Just ran the CSS stress test with my setup at 1280x1024 with all settings high no aa/af and got 102.68 fps. Used fraps to see how low I would dip and I never went under 76fps.
Thats not bad for 280.00$,but like I said what video card does he use currently?
 
I have no idea what a 'cert 4' rating in IT means.

Personally though, I'd let him spend the money. Its his to burn. And when your X2 rig still outperforms his, you can say I told you so. Then, he may come to see that his 'IT friend' isn't always right.
 
dude, i have so many friends like your brother... wow

they all play cs 1.6 with their P4s and 9600s and they think that, oh ill just buy a new video card and ill get way better performance. so they ask me what should I buy, and every card i recommend for their budget is pci-e... lol

and they tell me, how much is a better cpu, but i keep telling them to get a new cpu, you need a new mobo, new ram, new psu. its not my fault if you bought a computer 4 years ago and you havent upgraded anything in it, well im sorry but its time to sell it, get what u can from it, and build from scratch. If he is stubborn, let him keep upgrading and spending his money. After a while he will realize he has the best parts you can have for his platform and hes still getting ****** fps. Then he will realize how you were trying to help him, and how his friend made him waste money.
 
You know what, you should just let your brother get whatever his friend tells him to...this way he learns a lesson.
As long as it's not your money, then don't interfere. He'll eventually learn his lesson.

Anyways, if all fails, and you just have to give him some advice and "knock some sense" into him, then tell him that you have a friend at Berkeley who has just finished earning his degree in electrical engineering and computer science 😛
 
Originally posted by: BOLt
AGP? Socket 478? Save your money. Buy a Core Duo system or an AM2 or Athlon 64 X2 system. Don't blow ~$300 on a system that is way out of date. Yes, it might get 100 FPS in Source, but that's not hard. Want a great system? Get 2 GB of RAM, a 7900GS/GT/GTO (from eVGA for the last one), a Core Duo, AM2, or X2 processor, a better PSU, etc. Sell off your old system. Or be happy with what you have, but for God's sake don't put more money into it.

Brother A (the one who is trying to give good advice) is correct. Brother B (the one who is listening to poor advice from an "IT professional") should listen to A. Just because you're certified in some level of IT doesn't mean you know everything about the industry. Not by a long shot.
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I think we agree, but I think that the system can hold until DX10 which is why I'd recommended an x850 if he really needs an upgrade. You can get them cheap right now (ca $125) and it's probably a better match for the computing power. I bought an x850 a couple of months ago for only a slightly faster system (3.0C) with the idea I'll C2D it once DX10 cards drop to a reasonable price point. But for me the motivation to upgrade is H.264 and not gaming.
 
What game out right now or in the NEAR future will require more than a pent 4 2.8, 3.0, 3.2,3.4 or a Amd 64, 2.2,2.4,2.6 with 1 gig of ram and a 6800gt ,x850xt/pro,7600gt agp,7800gs class card at a decent framerate,resolutions,and settings??? I play Quake 4, halflife 2/ episode 1, Doom 3, CSS, Call of duty 2, Prey, F.E.A.R., Tomb Raider Legends,Need for speed most wanted, Hitman Bloodmoney, Ghost Recon advanced warfighter. Serious Sam 2, ALL at 1280x1024 high or med settings, and 1024x768 with max settings and aa/af at 40 to 90 fps avg.

My point is will you ACTUALLY SEE any difference with a conroe/7900gtx type system than ours? Yea you can encode some video faster but you paid for a new motherboard-150.00$.., ram-250.00$..., video card 300.00$...,psu 75.00$....and your windows xp install I bet got screwed up!? Total about 800.00$ When we REALLY need to upgrade I bet its' much cheaper with the Windows Vista cd in my hand and a i'll be buying all your hardware about 30% cheaper. Thanks for your time and letting me rant.
 
Originally posted by: TrevpHi
"ur just scared that mine will b better than yours for $500,
Click to expand...

Let him waste his money, then tell him to put his rig where his mouth is. Bench it against yours (you'll destroy his) for pinks. 😉 Then you sell his rig and buy a C2D with the money for him.

 
Better yet, show him this thread. Maybe it may dawn on him that this forum can actually help him, if he got any smarts.
 
Originally posted by: happy medium
What game out right now or in the NEAR future will require more than a pent 4 2.8, 3.0, 3.2,3.4 or a Amd 64, 2.2,2.4,2.6 with 1 gig of ram and a 6800gt ,x850xt/pro,7600gt agp,7800gs class card at a decent framerate,resolutions,and settings??? I play Quake 4, halflife 2/ episode 1, Doom 3, CSS, Call of duty 2, Prey, F.E.A.R., Tomb Raider Legends,Need for speed most wanted, Hitman Bloodmoney, Ghost Recon advanced warfighter. Serious Sam 2, ALL at 1280x1024 high or med settings, and 1024x768 with max settings and aa/af at 40 to 90 fps avg.

My point is will you ACTUALLY SEE any difference with a conroe/7900gtx type system than ours? Yea you can encode some video faster but you paid for a new motherboard-150.00$.., ram-250.00$..., video card 300.00$...,psu 75.00$....and your windows xp install I bet got screwed up!? Total about 800.00$ When we REALLY need to upgrade I bet its' much cheaper with the Windows Vista cd in my hand and a i'll be buying all your hardware about 30% cheaper. Thanks for your time and letting me rant.
Click to expand...

Let him read this!

 
That's one messed up situation.. Seems almost like bruce wants your brother to spend his money on crappy stuff...

Make your bro' go and return everything possible, if still possible..
Build him a semi-budget Core 2 Duo for the same amount of money and he'll love you forever 🙂

And yeah, people saying "why do you care, its his money to be spent".. Think about it, wouldn't you want the best for your own family/close friends?
 
For those in budget, I think Core 2 Duo E6300 and Asrock 775 Dual Vista will give the best bang for the buck. 6300 is like 180 on neweg and asrock is like 60. and he cna reuse most of his old technology like ddr ram and ago slot and he got a way heck fo a better system.
 
Originally posted by: TrevpHi
) now he reckons hes found a 3.5 ghz processor for $91. cheers
Click to expand...


The fastest CPU they made for socket 478 was 3.4ghz, and it won't work on a 533mhz FSB board anyway. He's just wasting his time trying to breath new life out of that old system.
 
In the long run it is better to just build new. Most computers over 4 years old are not worth upgrading. The P4 runs hot and adding an even more powerful video card requiring more power and creating more heat is not such a good idea. Older parts when put under stress tend to fail more often. It just does not make much sense to upgrade rather than to build new.
 
Originally posted by: happy medium
What game out right now or in the NEAR future will require more than a pent 4 2.8, 3.0, 3.2,3.4 or a Amd 64, 2.2,2.4,2.6 with 1 gig of ram and a 6800gt ,x850xt/pro,7600gt agp,7800gs class card at a decent framerate,resolutions,and settings??? I play Quake 4, halflife 2/ episode 1, Doom 3, CSS, Call of duty 2, Prey, F.E.A.R., Tomb Raider Legends,Need for speed most wanted, Hitman Bloodmoney, Ghost Recon advanced warfighter. Serious Sam 2, ALL at 1280x1024 high or med settings, and 1024x768 with max settings and aa/af at 40 to 90 fps avg.

My point is will you ACTUALLY SEE any difference with a conroe/7900gtx type system than ours? Yea you can encode some video faster but you paid for a new motherboard-150.00$.., ram-250.00$..., video card 300.00$...,psu 75.00$....and your windows xp install I bet got screwed up!? Total about 800.00$ When we REALLY need to upgrade I bet its' much cheaper with the Windows Vista cd in my hand and a i'll be buying all your hardware about 30% cheaper. Thanks for your time and letting me rant.
Click to expand...



no offence mate but i tihnk you're in denial.
you don;t want to admit that your system is old and out of date and ur trying to prove that its not.

that system is not much better than teh one he is upgradinh which i played on for 5 years. I've just got my core2 the otehr week and trust me ITS A ****** MASSSSSSIIVVVEEEEE difference.

css isnt all about fps the netcode is rather important seeing as its such a competitive online game where milliseconds count. the command rate (client ---> server) is limited to your frames. So on a 100 tick server getting less than 100+ constant puts u at a disadvantage. No you wont really notice any difference in gameplay due to monitors refresh rates and wat teh human eye can detect but the server sure can. His upgrade would be fine for playing bf2 and nfsu2 etc etc but css is cpu dependant (uses D3D and the HL2 engine is different to most. rigs with a good processor anda single card outperform rigs with lesser cpu's but running SLI but all other games the SLI system won)

he will be able to play most games that are out NOW but in 6 months time hes gunna be back where he started, especially with dx10 comming out.

by the way i miss typed in my original post. he actulaly got a 6800GS not a 7800GS.

if he wont return the card im thinking im going to ahve to convince him to get an AMD chip with a mobo that will take his AGP card and DDR ram.
 
Originally posted by: TrevpHi
Originally posted by: happy medium
What game out right now or in the NEAR future will require more than a pent 4 2.8, 3.0, 3.2,3.4 or a Amd 64, 2.2,2.4,2.6 with 1 gig of ram and a 6800gt ,x850xt/pro,7600gt agp,7800gs class card at a decent framerate,resolutions,and settings??? I play Quake 4, halflife 2/ episode 1, Doom 3, CSS, Call of duty 2, Prey, F.E.A.R., Tomb Raider Legends,Need for speed most wanted, Hitman Bloodmoney, Ghost Recon advanced warfighter. Serious Sam 2, ALL at 1280x1024 high or med settings, and 1024x768 with max settings and aa/af at 40 to 90 fps avg.

My point is will you ACTUALLY SEE any difference with a conroe/7900gtx type system than ours? Yea you can encode some video faster but you paid for a new motherboard-150.00$.., ram-250.00$..., video card 300.00$...,psu 75.00$....and your windows xp install I bet got screwed up!? Total about 800.00$ When we REALLY need to upgrade I bet its' much cheaper with the Windows Vista cd in my hand and a i'll be buying all your hardware about 30% cheaper. Thanks for your time and letting me rant.
Click to expand...



no offence mate but i tihnk you're in denial.
you don;t want to admit that your system is old and out of date and ur trying to prove that its not.

that system is not much better than teh one he is upgradinh which i played on for 5 years. I've just got my core2 the otehr week and trust me ITS A ****** MASSSSSSIIVVVEEEEE difference.

css isnt all about fps the netcode is rather important seeing as its such a competitive online game where milliseconds count. the command rate (client ---> server) is limited to your frames. So on a 100 tick server getting less than 100+ constant puts u at a disadvantage. No you wont really notice any difference in gameplay due to monitors refresh rates and wat teh human eye can detect but the server sure can. His upgrade would be fine for playing bf2 and nfsu2 etc etc but css is cpu dependant (uses D3D and the HL2 engine is different to most. rigs with a good processor anda single card outperform rigs with lesser cpu's but running SLI but all other games the SLI system won)

he will be able to play most games that are out NOW but in 6 months time hes gunna be back where he started, especially with dx10 comming out.

by the way i miss typed in my original post. he actulaly got a 6800GS not a 7800GS.

if he wont return the card im thinking im going to ahve to convince him to get an AMD chip with a mobo that will take his AGP card and DDR ram.
Click to expand...


So you are rich then? I don't know many people who would spend 800.00$ or more dollars just so he/she can playCSS on a 100 tick server. Last time I Played CSS I seen plenty of 66 tick servers. Hey it's your money.
 
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