Please help me find a new car!!

[TangoJuliet]

I'm on my way to Honda just to see the Fit. I don't think it's even going to be an option unless I can get it for the same price as the Focus. Even then I'm leaning towards the Focus

 

[Fenixgoon]

^ it amazes me that some cars don't come with ABS these days

 

[TangoJuliet]

I'd like to get a GPS unit as well. Are there any good ones that work well with Sync?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
I'm on my way to Honda just to see the Fit. I don't think it's even going to be an option unless I can get it for the same price as the Focus. Even then I'm leaning towards the Focus

Fit weighs about the same as the Focus if not a smidge more, and has ~115hp vs. 140hp. Good handling car though, and surprisingly roomy for a subcompact.

Fit's only advantage will be superior resale, and questionably higher reliability. I went with an '08 Focus myself, so you can see where my opinion of the two sits.

Fit is a good car though.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
I'd like to get a GPS unit as well. Are there any good ones that work well with Sync?

This may bear some research. Start here : http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10138116-48.html

 

[TangoJuliet]

Just got done looking at the Fit. It's a lot bigger then I thought it was. However the inside seemed kind of cheap / plasticy. Honda has no specials and at $19,400 the Focus is a better deal as it's $2000 less plus I get leather.

 

[TangoJuliet]

So I'm at Toyota and they have a used CPO 2006 Civic Coupe with 38,000 miles or a 2007 Civic Coupe with 44,000 miles. The 06 is silver, moon roof, nice condition aside from a scale on the bumper. The 07 is blue and it wouldn't start. Probably is a dead battery.

Both are in the $15000 range. The salesman is blasting Ford and how they aren't reliable and their resale value sucks.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
So I'm at Toyota and they have a used CPO 2006 Civic Coupe with 38,000 miles or a 2007 Civic Coupe with 44,000 miles. The 06 is silver, moon roof, nice condition aside from a scale on the bumper. The 07 is blue and it wouldn't start. Probably is a dead battery.

Both are in the $15000 range. The salesman is blasting Ford and how they aren't reliable and their resale value sucks.

The salesman is partially right, and partially full of it.

Look at used Focus prices, they actually hold value pretty well, but not quite to the same level as Civic or Corolla. They hold value far better than Kia, Hyundai, Chevy Cobalt/Cadavalier, and so on.

As for reliability, that's changed a lot.

Previous Focus used SPI (old Ford design, was in Ranger at one time) and Zetec (although it rhymes with Vtec, has no VVT, and is a Ford design as well) motors.

Both were mediocre in power output, and mediocre in reliability. Lifespan with good maintenance habits seems to fall in the 130k-160k range with those motors.

The Duratec 2.0 and 2.3L motors used in all Focus from 05+, and in rare instances in some earlier models, is a far better motor. Better power, smoother operation, and superior fuel economy. It's a Mazda design, and reliability has been excellent on these so far.

As for the rest of the car, reliability has been excellent, particularly from the MK1.5 and up, starting in 2005.

Bottom line, he's trying to use negatives that applied to certain configurations from years back, and using them to blast the entire lineup up to today, which is utterly illogical. It'd be like saying GM can't build a motor right because of the ghastly 2.8L/3.1L fiasco, and ignoring tanks like the 3800 and 5.7L. And the resale issue has become irrelevant. Increasing demand for the newer Foci has actually increased resale value of the older ones along with it, so the difference in resale between a Civic and a Focus isn't as large as it would have been 5 years ago, but still noticeable.

 

[TangoJuliet]

He offered $15k for the 06. Which is the better deal - civic or focus?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
He offered $15k for the 06. Which is the better deal - civic or focus?

Prices being that close, I'd say get the new one and take good care of it.

Focus is slightly lighter, has the same HP, slightly more torque, handles a bit better, and has equal fuel economy, while offering more features.

The only advantages to the Civic are the price, and the potential resale.

That said, in a few years, a 2009 Focus will probably be worth at least as much as a 2006 Civic with higher mileage.

Hard to really go wrong with either though, so if one 'moves' you more, do it. Both should last a very long time with proper maintenance.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Another plus with the focus is the 0% APR. Put your $15k down payment in the bank for the next 36 months earning you interest and pay the monthly payment instead of giving it right to the Honda dealership.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Versa's seats are pretty uncomfortbale although the car is really roomy.

Fit's seats are not too comfy either.


Focus SES is the bargain of the group as it will have the most rebates attached to it, tthe SES models are $5500 or $6500 off MSRP in my town and the standard feature list is pretty long.

 

[Hyperlite]

why all the hate for the TDI? It's a terrific car. And obviously the best performance, sportiness, and fuel economy of the cars you selected. Hassles of owning a diesel? The only hassle here is remembering to put diesel in it. It isn't 1985. Yes, maintenance will be more expensive. Your also likely to net >40mpg during sustained highway driving. It's also gotten many awards, including runner up for north american car of the year. Engine made Ward's 10 best list. Green Car of the Year.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...-volkswagen-jetta-tdi/

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...or-u-s-gas-mileage-at/

i don't know where this unfounded slander is coming from, but it would be a serious mistake to discount the Jetta.

whew that was officially the most fanboish post i've ever made.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
why all the hate for the TDI? It's a terrific car. And obviously the best performance, sportiness, and fuel economy of the cars you selected. Hassles of owning a diesel? The only hassle here is remembering to put diesel in it. It isn't 1985. Yes, maintenance will be more expensive. Your also likely to net >40mpg during sustained highway driving.

No way in hell.

http://www.caranddriver.com/re...tdi_first_drive_review

"With the previous engine, the best performance we managed to coax from a Jetta TDI was a sluggish 10.3 second 0-60 wheez. The additional power and torque produced by this new, cleaner engine bring that number down to somewhere in the low- to mid-eight second range."

That's the same range as the Civic and Focus automatics.

It's also over 3200lbs, as opposed to the ~2600 of the Civic and Focus. It will not handle as well.

The fuel economy is a lose/lose issue as well, as diesel prices are so much higher than gasoline that it wipes out the 30/41mpg vs. the ~30ish combined you'll get with a Focus or Civic.

Add the pain of having to stop at stations that have Diesel pumps (which even the stations that carry Diesel usually only have 1 or 2 pumps with it accessible), and higher maintenance costs, and there's not much to recommend there.

 

[Hyperlite]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
why all the hate for the TDI? It's a terrific car. And obviously the best performance, sportiness, and fuel economy of the cars you selected. Hassles of owning a diesel? The only hassle here is remembering to put diesel in it. It isn't 1985. Yes, maintenance will be more expensive. Your also likely to net >40mpg during sustained highway driving.

No way in hell.

http://www.caranddriver.com/re...tdi_first_drive_review

"With the previous engine, the best performance we managed to coax from a Jetta TDI was a sluggish 10.3 second 0-60 wheez. The additional power and torque produced by this new, cleaner engine bring that number down to somewhere in the low- to mid-eight second range."

That's the same range as the Civic and Focus automatics.

It's also over 3200lbs, as opposed to the ~2600 of the Civic and Focus. It will not handle as well.

The fuel economy is a lose/lose issue as well, as diesel prices are so much higher than gasoline that it wipes out the 30/41mpg vs. the ~30ish combined you'll get with a Focus or Civic.

Add the pain of having to stop at stations that have Diesel pumps (which even the stations that carry Diesel usually only have 1 or 2 pumps with it accessible), and higher maintenance costs, and there's not much to recommend there.

where the hell do you live? i don't recall the last time i saw i pump that DIDN'T include a diesel nozzle. Handling will be worse? Find me some proof. All the articles i have read all clearly state how much more engaging this car is to drive than any of the cars we are talking about here. Mid-range acceleration, which aught be important to the OP as he apparently does a lot of highway driving, will run circles around these other cars.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
why all the hate for the TDI? It's a terrific car. And obviously the best performance, sportiness, and fuel economy of the cars you selected. Hassles of owning a diesel? The only hassle here is remembering to put diesel in it. It isn't 1985. Yes, maintenance will be more expensive. Your also likely to net >40mpg during sustained highway driving.

No way in hell.

http://www.caranddriver.com/re...tdi_first_drive_review

"With the previous engine, the best performance we managed to coax from a Jetta TDI was a sluggish 10.3 second 0-60 wheez. The additional power and torque produced by this new, cleaner engine bring that number down to somewhere in the low- to mid-eight second range."

That's the same range as the Civic and Focus automatics.

It's also over 3200lbs, as opposed to the ~2600 of the Civic and Focus. It will not handle as well.

The fuel economy is a lose/lose issue as well, as diesel prices are so much higher than gasoline that it wipes out the 30/41mpg vs. the ~30ish combined you'll get with a Focus or Civic.

Add the pain of having to stop at stations that have Diesel pumps (which even the stations that carry Diesel usually only have 1 or 2 pumps with it accessible), and higher maintenance costs, and there's not much to recommend there.

where the hell do you live? i don't recall the last time i saw i pump that DIDN'T include a diesel nozzle.

I live in North Dallas / Carrollton area. Diesel pumps are rare outside of the QT / RaceTrak megastations. Most of the smaller stations around here, such as the blanket of 7-11s, don't carry Diesel.

 

[ballmode]

Jetta > Focus > Fit > Rolla

 

[Hyperlite]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Hyperlite

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
why all the hate for the TDI? It's a terrific car. And obviously the best performance, sportiness, and fuel economy of the cars you selected. Hassles of owning a diesel? The only hassle here is remembering to put diesel in it. It isn't 1985. Yes, maintenance will be more expensive. Your also likely to net >40mpg during sustained highway driving.

No way in hell.

http://www.caranddriver.com/re...tdi_first_drive_review

"With the previous engine, the best performance we managed to coax from a Jetta TDI was a sluggish 10.3 second 0-60 wheez. The additional power and torque produced by this new, cleaner engine bring that number down to somewhere in the low- to mid-eight second range."

That's the same range as the Civic and Focus automatics.

It's also over 3200lbs, as opposed to the ~2600 of the Civic and Focus. It will not handle as well.

The fuel economy is a lose/lose issue as well, as diesel prices are so much higher than gasoline that it wipes out the 30/41mpg vs. the ~30ish combined you'll get with a Focus or Civic.

Add the pain of having to stop at stations that have Diesel pumps (which even the stations that carry Diesel usually only have 1 or 2 pumps with it accessible), and higher maintenance costs, and there's not much to recommend there.

where the hell do you live? i don't recall the last time i saw i pump that DIDN'T include a diesel nozzle.

I live in North Dallas / Carrollton area. Diesel pumps are rare outside of the QT / RaceTrak megastations. Most of the smaller stations around here, such as the blanket of 7-11s, don't carry Diesel.

Wow, that is extremely surprising. I wonder why that is... seriously, every BP/exxon/mobil/ everything i can think of around here (raleigh, NC) has a diesel hose incorporated into every gas pump.

 

[QurazyQuisp]

My brother works for Toyota in Ann Arbor, MI at the R&D Facility.

Ford, and namely the Focus is at the top of their "worry" list, as it's more reliable/better value than what Toyota has to offer.

Ford is making some good cars these days, even if they all aren't the most attractive. (Focus) I'm excited for the euro model to get here.

But, I personally would get the Jetta, mainly just because of the MPG/reliability of the engines. (Although, you have to worry about everything else in a VW)

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Hyperlite

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
why all the hate for the TDI? It's a terrific car. And obviously the best performance, sportiness, and fuel economy of the cars you selected. Hassles of owning a diesel? The only hassle here is remembering to put diesel in it. It isn't 1985. Yes, maintenance will be more expensive. Your also likely to net >40mpg during sustained highway driving.

No way in hell.

http://www.caranddriver.com/re...tdi_first_drive_review

"With the previous engine, the best performance we managed to coax from a Jetta TDI was a sluggish 10.3 second 0-60 wheez. The additional power and torque produced by this new, cleaner engine bring that number down to somewhere in the low- to mid-eight second range."

That's the same range as the Civic and Focus automatics.

It's also over 3200lbs, as opposed to the ~2600 of the Civic and Focus. It will not handle as well.

The fuel economy is a lose/lose issue as well, as diesel prices are so much higher than gasoline that it wipes out the 30/41mpg vs. the ~30ish combined you'll get with a Focus or Civic.

Add the pain of having to stop at stations that have Diesel pumps (which even the stations that carry Diesel usually only have 1 or 2 pumps with it accessible), and higher maintenance costs, and there's not much to recommend there.

where the hell do you live? i don't recall the last time i saw i pump that DIDN'T include a diesel nozzle.

I live in North Dallas / Carrollton area. Diesel pumps are rare outside of the QT / RaceTrak megastations. Most of the smaller stations around here, such as the blanket of 7-11s, don't carry Diesel.

Wow, that is extremely surprising. I wonder why that is... seriously, every BP/exxon/mobil/ everything i can think of around here (raleigh, NC) has a diesel hose incorporated into every gas pump.

You got me, no idea why some areas are better equipped for diesel. But that's a good point you make with Carolina being better equipped. Something tells me it's a state regulatory issue, probably Texas has more taxes/costs/hoops for stations to set Diesel up. The issue I raised (availability/convenience) is a problem in my area, but not in yours, so it would obviously be of varying import to potential customers, as it might be a deal-killer in my area, but a non-issue in yours.

All that said, I like the Jetta as far as ergonomics, styling, and so forth. It's just a tough leap for me to get over VW's maintenance costs and the diesel issue (relative to DFW). If I'm gonna be paying german auto maintenance costs, may as well jump the shark and do BMW, Mercedes, Audi, or Porsche.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
My brother works for Toyota in Ann Arbor, MI at the R&D Facility.

Ford, and namely the Focus is at the top of their "worry" list, as it's more reliable/better value than what Toyota has to offer.

Ford is making some good cars these days, even if they all aren't the most attractive. (Focus) I'm excited for the euro model to get here.

But, I personally would get the Jetta, mainly just because of the MPG/reliability of the engines. (Although, you have to worry about everything else in a VW)

Using Gasbuddy, the cheapest unleaded here in Dallas is currently $1.54, while the cheapest diesel is $1.99.

So, say you drive the Jetta with a combined 35mpg, it will cost $5.67 to drive 100 miles.

Now, say you drive a Civic or Focus with a combined 30mpg (I do much more than this with my '08 Focus Coupe, but it is a shade lighter and a 5-speed), it will cost $5.12 to drive 100 miles.

Sometimes Diesel is more than a dollar more expensive than Unleaded! At the current disparity, it would cost more than $50 more in fuel every 10k miles to drive the 'efficient' TDI than it would the Civic or Focus. Not a huge bunch of money, but it's there.

So you see, the MPG of Diesels is either exaggerated in terms of value, or sometimes the difference is actually in favor of the car with lower MPG, but cheaper fuel.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Well guys you are looking at a proud owner of a 2009 Ford Focus Coupe SES. I snagged it for $17,460 plus tax and whatnot. Now, they were kind of pressuring me to get the extended warranty on the car since I drive so many miles a year (25-30,000). I told them yes, but I am starting to second guess myself if it was a good choice to do so. I also added a remote start for $100.

Pictures!

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[QurazyQuisp]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
My brother works for Toyota in Ann Arbor, MI at the R&D Facility.

Ford, and namely the Focus is at the top of their "worry" list, as it's more reliable/better value than what Toyota has to offer.

Ford is making some good cars these days, even if they all aren't the most attractive. (Focus) I'm excited for the euro model to get here.

But, I personally would get the Jetta, mainly just because of the MPG/reliability of the engines. (Although, you have to worry about everything else in a VW)

Using Gasbuddy, the cheapest unleaded here in Dallas is currently $1.54, while the cheapest diesel is $1.99.

So, say you drive the Jetta with a combined 35mpg, it will cost $5.67 to drive 100 miles.

Now, say you drive a Civic or Focus with a combined 30mpg (I do much more than this with my '08 Focus Coupe, but it is a shade lighter and a 5-speed), it will cost $5.12 to drive 100 miles.

Sometimes Diesel is more than a dollar more expensive than Unleaded! At the current disparity, it would cost more than $50 more in fuel every 10k miles to drive the 'efficient' TDI than it would the Civic or Focus. Not a huge bunch of money, but it's there.

So you see, the MPG of Diesels is either exaggerated in terms of value, or sometimes the difference is actually in favor of the car with lower MPG, but cheaper fuel.

From what I've read, assuming you aren't flooring it you can do better than 35mpg. Especially on the highway, where I've read that many people average 55-60mpg. A focus or civic will never hit that. If you're doing a lot of highway driving it's worth it. Not to mention the motors will run for a billion miles.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Well guys you are looking at a proud owner of a 2009 Ford Focus Coupe SES. I snagged it for $17,460 plus tax and whatnot. Now, they were kind of pressuring me to get the extended warranty on the car since I drive so many miles a year (25-30,000). I told them yes, but I am starting to second guess myself if it was a good choice to do so. I also added a remote start for $100.

Pictures!

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Back out of the extended warranty!

High mileage newer cars rarely break down as freeway miles do not wear a car down - start/stop city driving is what breaks car parts and causes unreliability!

 

[Q]

Good lookin' car