Please find me this monitor...

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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
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20-21" wide screen

5-6ms response time

75hz refresh rate at native resoultion

The closest I came up with was the viewsonic vx2025wm which can do 75hz at 1680x1050

But... its 8 ms

Im looking for one that can do 75 hz because I get tearing and vsync (w and w/o tripple buffering) makes the game feel wierd and kinda floaty).

any help woill be greatly appreciated
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
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tried that as well. That also made it feel strange. I might have to settle on the vx2025wm, if I can find it for sale still
 
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mozirry

Senior member
Sep 18, 2006
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The floatiness is probably too smooth, meaning that you are used to the tearing
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
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Im not sure thats it. Im playing with a 19" at 75hz right now. Its when I tried getting a new 22 in and tried to make it work was when i felt the floatiness
 
amddude

amddude

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2006
1,711
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The hz doesn't really apply to lcd's, you shouldn't notice a difference
 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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You know that the image feed rate (the "Hz" you see in Windows Display Properties) is actually NOTHING to do with how often the LCD controller updates the actual display image?
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
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Originally posted by: Peter
You know that the image feed rate (the "Hz" you see in Windows Display Properties) is actually NOTHING to do with how often the LCD controller updates the actual display image?
Click to expand...


Please excuse my ignorance, but I am not sure what your point is. I want a monitor that can update the image faster than my game can render the images. Hence no tearing.
 
Tegeril

Tegeril

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2003
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LCDs do not redraw the entire screen in cycles like CRTs do. The "Hz" setting is relatively insignificant.
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
620
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Please excuse my noobiness but I am still not seeing how Hz is not significant. I have a game that flucuates above and below 60FPS. If I have a monitor that can only run verterical refresh of 60 Hz I will get tearing (unless i turn v sync on) whe the game runs above 60FPS. Monitors that can run at 75 hz Vert RR no tearing occurs. What am i missing?? Can some one please clarify?
 
B

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: FireChicken
If I have a monitor that can only run verterical refresh of 60 Hz I will get tearing (unless i turn v sync on) whe the game runs above 60FPS. Monitors that can run at 75 hz Vert RR no tearing occurs. What am i missing?? Can some one please clarify?
Click to expand...

Please read this page on X-Bit Labs where LCD refresh rates are demystified:

The 75 Hz Myth

Sample:

You may argue that many monitors already support 75Hz, but I have to disappoint you: this support is implemented only on paper in most cases. The monitor is receiving 75 frames per second from the PC, but is discarding each fifth frame to display 60 frames per second on the matrix.
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
620
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Originally posted by: BernardP
Originally posted by: FireChicken
If I have a monitor that can only run verterical refresh of 60 Hz I will get tearing (unless i turn v sync on) whe the game runs above 60FPS. Monitors that can run at 75 hz Vert RR no tearing occurs. What am i missing?? Can some one please clarify?
Click to expand...

Please read this page on X-Bit Labs where LCD refresh rates are demystified:

The 75 Hz Myth

Sample:

You may argue that many monitors already support 75Hz, but I have to disappoint you: this support is implemented only on paper in most cases. The monitor is receiving 75 frames per second from the PC, but is discarding each fifth frame to display 60 frames per second on the matrix.
Click to expand...


:Q

I believe this to some extent. But my experience has shown me that when my driver is running the monitor at 60hz vert RR (i check in the OSD) I get horrible tearing. When it is at 75hz the tearing is gone. Sometimes I see a tiny bit when i make really quick turns. But the difference between the 2 modes is night and day. Regardless if the monitor is tossing out every 5th frame, the 2 modes seem different and if it removes tearing I am OK with that even though it is sort of a misnomer.

LCD continue to baffle me. Maybe I should go back to ole reliable CRT
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
620
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Hi xeno,

You would think that this monitor word run at 75 hz which it does... but not at 1680x1050 which is its native resoultion. It will run at 75hz only at 1280x 1024. Thats what tricked me with the viewsonic 22 which stated it had a 85hz vert RR, but only at 640x480 or something like that.
I have been downloading dozens of user manuels to see if it supports 75hz at 1680 x 1050. so far none except for the viewsonic vx2025wm. So at least I know this is possible. I really appreciate you looking. The only ones I don't know about are the acer lcds as their website sucks and is always bogged down. and once you do get the manuel the supported modes are not listed at all. I think amazon is selling the Sony GDM-FW900 24" wide CRT for $700 something... but its a BEAST. Prob as deep as my desk is
 
J

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Forget about everything you mentioned. Get this!. It's simply the best 20" wide LCD out now. Just get it. You won't be disappointed.
 
T

TheRyuu

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2005
5,479
14
81
I can't think of any 20-22in. monitor that'll do 75hz.

On a LCD is 75hz really needed?

And BTW, I can't do 75hz on my monitor (VX2025wm). It says out of range.
And you won't notice the 8ms response time. That downside is supplemented by the fact that this monitor has a P-MVA (or M-PVA, I can't remember) panel in it, which is good.
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
620
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Well since you have weighed in.. guess ill be sticking to my 19" unless I can find a big used CRT. The Manual for the vx2025wm said that it would run at 60 or 75 hz at native res. Im gald you told me. Saved me a big headache. I was trying to find place that still sold that monitor.

I play a lot quake 4 mutiplayer which is actually capped at 60FpS. but for some reason my FPS are going a little beyond up to 65. Some times the games boots up at 60hz and I know instantly cause of the tearing. 75hz seems to keep the tearing to a minimum, at least so it is playable. Even on ultra quality, all graphics settings up, high quality in the the driver, this card runs this game at 1280x1024 like a breeze.
 
T

TheRyuu

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2005
5,479
14
81
Originally posted by: FireChicken
Well since you have weighed in.. guess ill be sticking to my 19" unless I can find a big used CRT. The Manual for the vx2025wm said that it would run at 60 or 75 hz at native res. Im gald you told me. Saved me a big headache. I was trying to find place that still sold that monitor.

I play a lot quake 4 mutiplayer which is actually capped at 60FpS. but for some reason my FPS are going a little beyond up to 65. Some times the games boots up at 60hz and I know instantly cause of the tearing. 75hz seems to keep the tearing to a minimum, at least so it is playable. Even on ultra quality, all graphics settings up, high quality in the the driver, this card runs this game at 1280x1024 like a breeze.
Click to expand...

Theres really no big deal about a 60hz LCD vs 75hz LCD.
Unless you absolutely need vsync.
And in multiplayer I'd never use vsync anyway.

You seem to have some really narrow views on refresh rates and response times on LCD's. But to each his own I guess...
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
620
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Maybe... but its just that I definately notice a difference between the modes and experience has shown me that my gaming experience is much better at 75 hz.
I can definately live with an 8ms response time.. been playing with it for about 2 years. I admit i kinda bought into the the whole "gaming is better with faster response time"
And in multiplayer I'd never use vsync anyway.
Click to expand...

and that is exactly why i am looking for a monitor that can do 75 hz so I dont have to use vsync in multiplayer.

What do you think vsync is for anyways?

You may think that my views may be narrow but these are the features that I am looking for in a gaming LCD. Features like color accuracy, contrast, etc are not so important to me in gameing. I dont even care if the monitors backlight bleeds (my current samsung bleeds like the dickens) but it is not noticable to me when i play. It was my logical conclusion that the only way to remove tearing was to play at 75hz that is why I have put so much weight on that feature

But all these points are moot as the monitor i am looking for does not exist

My LCD knowledge is poor at best, I am just going on playing experience here.

Maybe I will try and capture some video to try and show the difference between the 2 modes.
 
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FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
620
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Quote from redstar
The problem with vsynch....

http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_8.html (read the whole page as it is very informative

"The main reason why the refresh rate on an LCD may matter in gaming is because of VSync - which is discussed in greater detail in the Vertical Synchronization setting. The simple fact of the matter is that LCD monitors have to work on the basis of receiving new frames of information from a graphics card's frame buffer like a CRT would: i.e, during the VBI. So when VSync is disabled the graphics card will sometimes race ahead and when the LCD monitor indicates it is ready for a new frame during the blanking interval, the graphics card may provide a partially new frame overlapping an older one, just like it would for a CRT. An LCD monitor will then display this just the same way a CRT monitor would, resulting in visible tearing. The alternative of enabling VSync can resolve this, but in turn can reduce FPS to a fraction of the refresh rate. The lower your refresh rate, the greater the performance drop, which is why a 60Hz refresh rate on an LCD may be problem."

I'm not sure if vista has the same LCD limitation (forcing it to act like a crt) ...probably/
Of course this is not such a bad trade off...at high resolutions and max visual settings.
But, it is a reason why professional gamers still prefer CRT's.

This is why "100hz refresh rate" panels are on the horizon ...
Click to expand...
 
X

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
75hz refresh rate at native resoultion
Click to expand...

None exist. All LCDs operating at >60Hz discard the frames to match the internal controller's 60 Hz update rate.
 
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