Please don't watch "V for Vendetta"

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redgtxdi

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2004
5,464
8
81
Originally posted by: BDawg

For the love of God, stop posting.

Fixed! ;)



P.S. My opinion on the OP is that I think you did a great job. Sorry to hear it's not a great movie. I was a HUGE "Matrix" fan and had hoped for the best. Oh well. I'm too conservative to tolerate that kind of crap. Plus, the Wachowskis have so much potential and just keep droppin' the ball. Bummer!

 

iwantanewcomputer

Diamond Member
Apr 4, 2004
5,045
0
0
Originally posted by: Mani
Sorry dude, despite the work you put into that post, it will convince exactly zero people not to see this movie.

I am not going to see the movie, whereas i probably was going to, simply to prove you wrong. Thanks for saving me 2 hours OP.
 

Poulsonator

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2002
1,597
0
76
Originally posted by: Azndude2190
All this over a movie?

...sheesh now I have to go see it:D

See? And I'd be willing to bet this type of reaction is EXACTLY why the powers that be wanted this movie made. Well, that and the fact that it will probably make some money.

I'm seeing it in an hour, and I CANNOT wait! It's a brilliant graphic novel and has been one of my favorites for a very long time.
 

Abel007

Platinum Member
Jun 12, 2001
2,169
0
76
I read the first few sentences of the OP then lost interest. This should've never been posted in OT and I'd vote for it to be moved to P&N. One can read into whatever they wish (i.e. book, movie, tv show,...) and make it come out the way they have it pictured in their minds.

If you seriously read this much into movies you are losing all reality in the fact that they are for entertainment purposes. The fact is the movie is based off of a 20-year old book and it has nothing to do with real life in any way. The Wachowski (sp?) brothers are only interested in your money and thats why they decided to make this movie.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
76
Originally posted by: Brazen
Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
This post does discuss conservative and liberal ideals, but there is no discussion of a political nature in this original post. I don't mind if a moderator moves the thread if it somehow becomes political or if my agreeable opinion is not welcome.

There are no spoilers in this post.

I just watched an early screening of the Wachowski Brothers' latest film: V for Vendetta

Before I get started, I'll let you know....


I'm behind you Ichinisan in regards to the POV of the movie (if what you say is true, haven't seen it yet). I consider myself a tolerant conservative as well. **the following isn't meant to be a chauvinistic remark, so if that's how you take it, you have your "freedom of belief** Liberals remind me of women, they try to set double standards for themselves. Women expect men to be chivilrous, yet expect to be treated equally in the work place. Liberals demand all this free speech, same way liberals cry that our government isn't giving the liberties and siding with the radical islamists who want to murder people for defaming mohammad in a cartoon, yet say that the pi** Christ is freedom of speech.
I think most conservatives would be considered tolerant. But (generalising here) liberals seem to take tolerance to mean "agreeing with them." Nobody seems to expect liberals to be tolerant of conservatives though. The posts in this thread show definate intolerance from the liberals to conservatives.

Ann Coulter is a major spokersperson for conservatives everywhere and is the embodiment of how tolerant they normally are :disgust:
 

imported_Baloo

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2006
1,782
0
0
Now I definately gotta see that movie. If a conservative don't like it, it must be good. That a conservative feels the need to bash it so thouroughly, it must have hit some truth, even though it's fiction. Thanks for the excellant review!
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
5,680
1
81
Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
Originally posted by: Mani
Sorry dude, despite the work you put into that post, it will convince exactly zero people not to see this movie.

I am not going to see the movie, whereas i probably was going to, simply to prove you wrong. Thanks for saving me 2 hours OP.

ditto
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
76
Originally posted by: Tobolo
Thank you for your insight. i definetely will not watch the movie in theaters. Im getting sick and tired of all these movies coming out that hide the fact that they are politcal message movies because they know no one will watch them. Lord of War is a prime example of this. I was sooo mad when I figured out where it was going. I t was made out to be a Kick @$$ war typse movie. Nope, just a movie made so they could say that America is the ones behind all death in the world. If you dont like it get the heck out of the country.

REDNECK ALERT! This is a democratic republic. If you don't like it, get the heck out of OUR country.

Take a look at historical literature trends. In times of war, most authors wrote books taking place in times of peace or outright defaming of war. In times of peace, most authors wrote books about war.

Get OVER IT
 

evetstech

Senior member
Jun 20, 2005
284
0
0
Quoted from Movies.com:
What's the Deal? Bush fans (the president, not the crappy band with Gwen Stefani's husband), you might as well stay home and not get yourselves in a bunch over this super-entertaining movie. It's not for you. It's for the rest of us, who are totally freaked out that right-wingers are running the country, the ones who've been harboring revenge fantasies for the past six years. And fans of subtlety are also advised to steer clear, because it's as paranoid and pompous a piece of brazen looniness as you'll see this year.

/thread
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Again, you need to read up on fascism. Completely fictional? Read up on Germany's National Socialist Worker's Party circa 1933-1945.
Fascism is a leftist movement. A collectivist movement by definition.
OK, ripped straight from Wikipedia:

Merriam-Webster defines fascism as "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"[1]. The American Heritage Dictionary instead describes it as "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."[2].

Mussolini defined fascism as being a right-wing ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individualism. He said in The Political and Social Doctrine of Fascism:

"Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State." [3]

Fascism is associated by many scholars with one or more of the following characteristics: a very high degree of nationalism, economic corporatism, a powerful, dictatorial leader who portrays the nation, state or collective as superior to the individuals or groups composing it.

Stanley Payne's Fascism: Comparison and Definition (1980) uses a lengthy itemized list of characteristics to identify fascism, including the creation of an authoritarian state; a regulated, state-integrated economic sector; fascist symbolism; anti-liberalism; anti-communism [4]. A similar strategy was employed by semiotician Umberto Eco in his popular essay Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt[5]. More recently, an emphasis has been placed upon the aspect of populist fascist rhetoric that argues for a "re-birth" of a conflated nation and ethnic people[6].

Many scholars hold that fascism as a social movement employs elements from the political left, but eventually allies with the political right, especially after attaining state power. See: Fascism and ideology.

Dude, Wiki is written by people, not "unbiased" scholars. Liberalism is all about taking individual rights away; it transfers power from the individual to the government, which they dub "people" to make it sound like they're noble. Capitalism and democracy go hand in hand. This is threatened when the "working class" (i.e. lazy people who just want an easy job or mooch off government) gets together and overthrows the individual. First they get rid of religion (personal freedom is a God given right) then they start confiscating private assets and make them state owned. That's communism. An alternative is to jack up tax rates so the government ends up taking anything anyways. This is called "socialism."

People forget corporations are owned by a group of individuals. Blaming corporations is essentially blaming people. Socialism and communism are most close to facism than a democratic capitalism.

Fascism's economic ideology is corporatism, which is pretty much what the republican party's ideology is today, rather than free markets. And yes, fascism is a rightwing ideology.
 

Proletariat

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2004
5,614
0
0
Well if you look at the political scale, which is based on how people sat in the French government in relation to the King.

Fascism is Right-Wing and reactionary.

Revolution is on the opposite end of the scale on the left.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
Thus it ever was.

If the sybolisim bothers you, I would suggest that you prove their ( the filmmaker's) theorum.

To squelch debate and impugn the patriotism of those with opposing viewpoints are the tools of tyrants.

I will now be going to see this movie, thank you for the impetus.


< doesn't usually go to movies in theatres.
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
5,680
1
81
Originally posted by: Baloo
Now I definately gotta see that movie. If a conservative don't like it, it must be good. That a conservative feels the need to bash it so thouroughly, it must have hit some truth, even though it's fiction. Thanks for the excellant review!

bashing things thoroughly... sounds like a tactic of ... liberals :laugh:
 

Proletariat

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2004
5,614
0
0
Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Originally posted by: Baloo
Now I definately gotta see that movie. If a conservative don't like it, it must be good. That a conservative feels the need to bash it so thouroughly, it must have hit some truth, even though it's fiction. Thanks for the excellant review!

bashing things thoroughly... sounds like a tactic of ... liberals :laugh:

Oh please thats the tactic of every political party.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
76
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Again, you need to read up on fascism. Completely fictional? Read up on Germany's National Socialist Worker's Party circa 1933-1945.
Fascism is a leftist movement. A collectivist movement by definition.
OK, ripped straight from Wikipedia:

Merriam-Webster defines fascism as "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"[1]. The American Heritage Dictionary instead describes it as "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."[2].

Mussolini defined fascism as being a right-wing ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individualism. He said in The Political and Social Doctrine of Fascism:

"Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State." [3]

Fascism is associated by many scholars with one or more of the following characteristics: a very high degree of nationalism, economic corporatism, a powerful, dictatorial leader who portrays the nation, state or collective as superior to the individuals or groups composing it.

Stanley Payne's Fascism: Comparison and Definition (1980) uses a lengthy itemized list of characteristics to identify fascism, including the creation of an authoritarian state; a regulated, state-integrated economic sector; fascist symbolism; anti-liberalism; anti-communism [4]. A similar strategy was employed by semiotician Umberto Eco in his popular essay Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt[5]. More recently, an emphasis has been placed upon the aspect of populist fascist rhetoric that argues for a "re-birth" of a conflated nation and ethnic people[6].

Many scholars hold that fascism as a social movement employs elements from the political left, but eventually allies with the political right, especially after attaining state power. See: Fascism and ideology.

Dude, Wiki is written by people, not "unbiased" scholars. Liberalism is all about taking individual rights away; it transfers power from the individual to the government, which they dub "people" to make it sound like they're noble. Capitalism and democracy go hand in hand. This is threatened when the "working class" (i.e. lazy people who just want an easy job or mooch off government) gets together and overthrows the individual. First they get rid of religion (personal freedom is a God given right) then they start confiscating private assets and make them state owned. That's communism. An alternative is to jack up tax rates so the government ends up taking anything anyways. This is called "socialism."

People forget corporations are owned by a group of individuals. Blaming corporations is essentially blaming people. Socialism and communism are most close to facism than a democratic capitalism.

Yeah liberals are all about taking away rights like gay marriage and worker rights.

Oh wait...

There are laws on the books right now that allow corporate interests to take over your land. The corporate interest does not have to give you any compensation and can start bulldozing your home so long as the land will be used to benefit the city economically. Do you really not find anything wrong with this?

Blaming corporations is the same as blaming the few men at the top of the ladder who make all of the decisions. No one forgets that corporations are owned by a group of individuals. However, these people are only looking out for their best interests. They are power-crazed, and some of these men no longer have souls (which is obvious if you observe any of their actions).

So Mussolini states that fascism is an ideology of the right, but you disagree with him because...? Communism does not support unity against a common enemy (that's FASCISM). The communist ideal is essentially equality for everyone (on paper). The fascism ideal is for everyone at the bottom to support the people at the top so that they may be protected against a common threat (on paper and in reality). The ideal of communism is nothing like fascism.

Fear is a concept most used by conservatives to bring people together against a common enemy. The War on Terror? You're either with us or against us? These are conservative phrases leading us down the road to a fascist state.

Fascism starts by appealing to the people by offering protection and unity. Communism (and liberalism in general) does not offer unity OR protection. It offers worker rights and equality, but there is no rallying cry against a common enemy.

Fascism is CONSERVATIVE by nature. Nazi Germany was a CONSERVATIVE state. Mussolini was the leader of a CONSERVATIVE state. Both men led conservative states by every meaning of the word "conservative."

Fascism != Communism, but they definitely both have their wrongs. Fascism is to the right as communism is to the left.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
The main attraction - distraction
got ya number than number than numb
Empty ya pockets son; they got you thinkin that
What ya need is what they sellin
Make you think that buyin is rebellin
From the theaters to malls on every shore
Tha thin line between entertainment and war
The frontline is everywhere, there be no shelter here
Spielberg the nightmare works so push it far
Amistad was a whip, the truth was feathered and tarred
Memory erased, burned and scarred
Trade in ya history for a VCR

Cinema, simulated life, ill drama
Fourth Reich culture - Americana
Chained to the dream they got ya searchin for
Tha thin line between entertainment and war

There be no shelter here
Tha frontline is everywhere

Hospitals not profit full
Yet market bulls got pockets full
To advertise some hip disguise
View tha world from American eyes
Tha poor adore keep fiendin for more
Tha thin line between entertainment and war
They fix the need, develop the taste
Buy their products or get laid to waste
Coca-Cola was back in the veins of Saigon
And Rambo too, he got a dope pair of Nikes on
And Godzilla pure muthafsckin filler
To keep ya eyes off the real killer

Cinema, simulated life, ill drama
Fourth Reich culture - Americana
Chained to the dream they got ya searchin for
Tha thin line between entertainment and war

American eyes, American eyes....
View the world from American eyes
Bury the past, rob us blind
And leave nothin behind

Just stare
Relive the nightmare.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Again, you need to read up on fascism. Completely fictional? Read up on Germany's National Socialist Worker's Party circa 1933-1945.
Fascism is a leftist movement. A collectivist movement by definition.
OK, ripped straight from Wikipedia:

Merriam-Webster defines fascism as "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"[1]. The American Heritage Dictionary instead describes it as "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."[2].

Mussolini defined fascism as being a right-wing ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individualism. He said in The Political and Social Doctrine of Fascism:

"Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State." [3]

Fascism is associated by many scholars with one or more of the following characteristics: a very high degree of nationalism, economic corporatism, a powerful, dictatorial leader who portrays the nation, state or collective as superior to the individuals or groups composing it.

Stanley Payne's Fascism: Comparison and Definition (1980) uses a lengthy itemized list of characteristics to identify fascism, including the creation of an authoritarian state; a regulated, state-integrated economic sector; fascist symbolism; anti-liberalism; anti-communism [4]. A similar strategy was employed by semiotician Umberto Eco in his popular essay Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt[5]. More recently, an emphasis has been placed upon the aspect of populist fascist rhetoric that argues for a "re-birth" of a conflated nation and ethnic people[6].

Many scholars hold that fascism as a social movement employs elements from the political left, but eventually allies with the political right, especially after attaining state power. See: Fascism and ideology.
What part about collectivist do you not understand? Your versions of "left" and "right" only work if one assumes that collectivist ideologies are all that exist.

Fascism, as created by Mussolini, was corporatist socialism.

Fascism, as practiced by Hitler, was nationalist socialism.

Liberalism != communism (or socialism). The word "liberal" comes from liberty, and accurately describes the libertarian ideals of Locke, Jefferson, etc. NOT the pseudo-socialist bullsh!t that people think is liberalism today. Liberalism is an individualist ideology, meaning it places the needs of individuals above those of the state. It does not allow the ends to justify the means, as means are ends unto themselves.

My advice to AT'ers this week has been to believe what you see, not see what you believe. Try it sometime.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
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Thought it was probably one of the best films of the last few years. LOVED IT. Will see it many times in the theater (I recommend IMAX for the best experience). Will buy at least two copies when it comes out (one for me, one as a gift for the White House).
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
5,680
1
81
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Thought it was probably one of the best films of the last few years. LOVED IT. Will see it many times in the theater (I recommend IMAX for the best experience). Will buy at least two copies when it comes out (one for me, one as a gift for the White House).

more examples of ridiculous thought patterns of a liberal.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Thought it was probably one of the best films of the last few years. LOVED IT. Will see it many times in the theater (I recommend IMAX for the best experience). Will buy at least two copies when it comes out (one for me, one as a gift for the White House).

more examples of ridiculous thought patterns of a liberal.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Except that I have an equal or greater number of true conservative or neutral leanings, sure. Just no neocon leanings or evan/fundie leanings.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
tell me, was it the right or left in this country that made gay marriage an issue in the most recent presidential elections?