Please disprove this for me (science/electricity related.)

[blahblah99]

You only get zapped when you're touching two wires with a potential between them.

Birds don't get zapped because they only touch one wire.

 

[BullsOnParade]

birds legs are hollow, and high frequency ie high tension power lines pose less of a risk than do lower
ie 60 hz voltages as far as a current risk also, high tension wires also carry next to nil current to minimize
current losses. So its a number of things that keep the bird alive, not being grounded, providing good insulation
for the current that flows so its only conducting a minute amount of current.

as far as the magnetic field crap, that's total bunk.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Atomicus
Like I said, look at the birds on regular power lines that runs with your telephone lines etc. The grip wouldn't be slippery because the shape of the claw doesn't allow for slippage. A semi-circular arc clamping on a repulsive force shaped like a rod will not allow for slippage (omg.. i wish i could draw a FBD)

The proof is there, when its morning, go outside and look at the birds. They can grasp the wires; you cannot.

Looking at the birds proves nothing about whether they are grasping the actual wire or are repelled by it. I mean, it's not like touching the wire would hurt them....they are charged when sitting on the wires, touching or no.

 

[jwells777]

For the record, 10,000 V isn't really a high voltage line. That is generally considered distribution level and birds definitely play on that. They may be referring to actual high votage transmission lines (765 kV). I don't know whether birds actually play on those lines since I haven't seen too many of them.

 

[SKORPI0]

How can birds sit on electrical wires and not get electrocuted? :Q

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: Anubis
the birds arnt grounded - they dont get zapped

Listen to this man.

 

[vegetation]

Originally posted by: ApacheXMD
and the wires are insulated already..

-patchy

Nope, high tension wires usually are not. The thickness of an effective insulator would be too costly.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: BullsOnParade
birds legs are hollow, and high frequency ie high tension power lines pose less of a risk than do lower
ie 60 hz voltages as far as a current risk also, high tension wires also carry next to nil current to minimize
current losses. So its a number of things that keep the bird alive, not being grounded, providing good insulation
for the current that flows so its only conducting a minute amount of current.

as far as the magnetic field crap, that's total bunk.

You don't have any idea what you're talking about, do you?

As for the whole repulsion thing, I'm not quite understanding. It isn't going to be like when you try and put the N-N faces of two magnets together.

A bird should have no problems landing on a powerline with as strong a magnetic field as you can imagine. They aren't magnetic, the magnetic field isn't going to effect them in significant ways.

If the bird in question relies on its magnetic sense for guidance, you would never find one near a strong powerline, though.

Either that, or you would find a lot of them near powerlines, depending on which way it worked.

I think the misunderstanding is that apparently some people don't realize that the "high power" lines they're talking about are the ones you find way out in the country. Not the ones in your neighborhood.

If you can feel the electricity in the air, and hear the lines crackle, you've got.. what did someone else say, 765kV? traveling over your head.

 

[The Stigenator]

a bird can sit on a power line because he/she isnt completing a circuit by getting grounded.. it has nothing to do with magnetic fields.

However I have never seen birds on those big towers carrying electricity.

 

[BullsOnParade]

you lost me on that eli ? what did i miss in my post ?

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: notfred
I have a card here from a game called Mind Trap that poses this problem:

Shady was his invention to a 'Birds Unlimited' convention. He explained that he developed a special insulation for high powered electrical lines. The insulation is guaranteed to save thousands of birds who unwittingly land on the lines and are electrocuted each year. Shady claimed that with all the birds saved,the annual summer mosquito problem would practically disappear. As Shady was appealing for donations, Captain Frank, an avid bird lover, stood up and told Shady to peddle his line elsewhere. What was wrong with Shady's claim?

It then proceeds to produce this pile of crap as an answer:

High powered electrical lines have such a strong magnetic field that is virtually impossible for birds to land on them. The magnetic field will actually repel the birds.

I want to be able to provide concrete evidence that this answer is plain wrong. The simple fact that birds aren't magnetic doesn't seem to be enough.

Hahaha... are you serious? Is that what it really says???? Where the hell did you get this game?

The reason is that the birds do not create a path to ground.

 

[raanemaan]

I have lived near a power plant with high voltage lines and now that you mention it I don't recall seeing birds on them. Maybe there is a strong enough magnetic fiel to keep them off I just don't know. On a regular power line they have to ground themselves to be killed. They are not telephone lines that I see them on because the phone lines are buried in my area.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Atomicus
On normal powerlines, the birds can land on the wire, but don't actually touch. Why? Because they do generate a repulsive force, however, it is only enough to repel the bird's feet a small distance from the wire, this the feet can grasp this "invisible" wire which is repelling. You should see this pretty common in your own yard where there are power lines. Trust me, I'm an environmental engineer and I've read about it.

As for high powered electrical lines, the game's solution is correct. If you've payed attention in your college physics class, magnetic flux goes through most objects, including insulation since its not a transfer of electrons but an invisible force. Just like how even extreme levels of voltage can penetrate insulation, so can a magnetic field actually repel.

I own a copy of Mind Trap and I've never seen an answer wrong before.

environmental engineer... repulsive force so birds dont touch it... I raise the BS card

 

[BullsOnParade]

edit: elctrical transmission lines are at 60hz all the time, regardless of their voltage (in the US 50hz sometimes elsewhere), the frequency of the voltage doesn't change.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: notfred
I have a card here from a game called Mind Trap that poses this problem:

Shady was his invention to a 'Birds Unlimited' convention. He explained that he developed a special insulation for high powered electrical lines. The insulation is guaranteed to save thousands of birds who unwittingly land on the lines and are electrocuted each year. Shady claimed that with all the birds saved,the annual summer mosquito problem would practically disappear. As Shady was appealing for donations, Captain Frank, an avid bird lover, stood up and told Shady to peddle his line elsewhere. What was wrong with Shady's claim?

It then proceeds to produce this pile of crap as an answer:

High powered electrical lines have such a strong magnetic field that is virtually impossible for birds to land on them. The magnetic field will actually repel the birds.

I want to be able to provide concrete evidence that this answer is plain wrong. The simple fact that birds aren't magnetic doesn't seem to be enough.

a birds sense of direction is governed by magnetic fields. As an electric current flows throw a wire a magentic field is generated (vice versa is also true in case you are wondering).

Imagine a powerline in your head , now take your right hand and stick your thumb out in the way the current is travvelling and curl your fingers into a fist, the way your fingers are moving is the way the magentic field will be generated. Since a powerline has a lot of current going through it it will really fvck with a birds balance, but i believe you are getting confused with a bird sitting on a telephone wire vs a power line. A telephone line wont have nearly as much current flowing through it.

-Ameesh

quoting my own answer because unlike the grade A BS in here i actuallyhave the correct answer.

 

[vshah]

Originally posted by: warcrow
Thye must be talking about the very HIGH powered lines (10K volts), b/c I see it almost everyday.


BTW, where is Doom 3?

it was magnetically repelled from its target release date

-Vivan

 

[element]

I've seen extremely powerful electromegnets in research labs that could repel anything. They showed a strawberry floating in the air with it.

The electromagnet was huge though, the size of maybe a 3 story house or thereabouts.

I doubt the magnetic field around a powerline is enough to physically repel the bird, but maybe it can affect their brain like Ameesh said.

Then again it's not impossible that there is enough magnetic field around a 700+kv line to repel also, though I'm not sure.

The giant electromagnet I spoke of had a lot of windings around it, and a lot of current through it. The powerline has no windings, just the 1 line.

 

[Pacfanweb]

"Originally posted by: Atomicus
On normal powerlines, the birds can land on the wire, but don't actually touch. Why? Because they do generate a repulsive force, however, it is only enough to repel the bird's feet a small distance from the wire, this the feet can grasp this "invisible" wire which is repelling."
I call complete and utter horseshlt. An "invisible" barrier around the wire is what a bird is really holding on to. Right.

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: element
I've seen extremely powerful electromegnets in research labs that could repel anything. They showed a strawberry floating in the air with it.

The electromagnet was huge though, the size of maybe a 3 story house or thereabouts.

I doubt the magnetic field around a powerline is enough to physically repel the bird, but maybe it can affect their brain like Ameesh said.

Then again it's not impossible that there is enough magnetic field around a 700+kv line to repel also, though I'm not sure.

The giant electromagnet I spoke of had a lot of windings around it, and a lot of current through it. The powerline has no windings, just the 1 line.

While it is possible to levitate normal objects (I've seen pictures of frogs) with extremely large magnetic fields, there's no way in hell a high-tension wire produces such a field. You need fields of several thousand Tesla's to do that. The magnetic field from a wire depends on the current and distance from it. The current through high tension wires is purposely small and the voltage purposely high to avoid power loss from the resistance of the wire over large distances. The field might be strong enough to mess with a bird's navigation as the Earth's field is pretty weak, but I don't know if that's true or not.

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: notfred
I have a card here from a game called Mind Trap that poses this problem:

Shady was his invention to a 'Birds Unlimited' convention. He explained that he developed a special insulation for high powered electrical lines. The insulation is guaranteed to save thousands of birds who unwittingly land on the lines and are electrocuted each year. Shady claimed that with all the birds saved,the annual summer mosquito problem would practically disappear. As Shady was appealing for donations, Captain Frank, an avid bird lover, stood up and told Shady to peddle his line elsewhere. What was wrong with Shady's claim?

It then proceeds to produce this pile of crap as an answer:

High powered electrical lines have such a strong magnetic field that is virtually impossible for birds to land on them. The magnetic field will actually repel the birds.

I want to be able to provide concrete evidence that this answer is plain wrong. The simple fact that birds aren't magnetic doesn't seem to be enough.

Hahaha... are you serious? Is that what it really says???? Where the hell did you get this game?

The reason is that the birds do not create a path to ground.

lmao, no kidding, that is funny as hell

 

[Ymmy]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Atomicus
On normal powerlines, the birds can land on the wire, but don't actually touch. Why? Because they do generate a repulsive force, however, it is only enough to repel the bird's feet a small distance from the wire, this the feet can grasp this "invisible" wire which is repelling. You should see this pretty common in your own yard where there are power lines. Trust me, I'm an environmental engineer and I've read about it.

As for high powered electrical lines, the game's solution is correct. If you've payed attention in your college physics class, magnetic flux goes through most objects, including insulation since its not a transfer of electrons but an invisible force. Just like how even extreme levels of voltage can penetrate insulation, so can a magnetic field actually repel.

I own a copy of Mind Trap and I've never seen an answer wrong before.

environmental engineer... repulsive force so birds dont touch it... I raise the BS card

I have taken high level engineering classes, does that mean what I say is correct?


Magnetic flux in this case is NOT strong enough to repel the bird.

PERIOD.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: notfred
I have a card here from a game called Mind Trap that poses this problem:

Shady was his invention to a 'Birds Unlimited' convention. He explained that he developed a special insulation for high powered electrical lines. The insulation is guaranteed to save thousands of birds who unwittingly land on the lines and are electrocuted each year. Shady claimed that with all the birds saved,the annual summer mosquito problem would practically disappear. As Shady was appealing for donations, Captain Frank, an avid bird lover, stood up and told Shady to peddle his line elsewhere. What was wrong with Shady's claim?

It then proceeds to produce this pile of crap as an answer:

High powered electrical lines have such a strong magnetic field that is virtually impossible for birds to land on them. The magnetic field will actually repel the birds.

I want to be able to provide concrete evidence that this answer is plain wrong. The simple fact that birds aren't magnetic doesn't seem to be enough.

Hahaha... are you serious? Is that what it really says???? Where the hell did you get this game?

The reason is that the birds do not create a path to ground.

lmao, no kidding, that is funny as hell

That isn't what the Q/A is talking about, though. It isn't asking why birds aren't electrocuted when they touch power lines, it's asking why you never see birds around high tension lines.

Again, they're not talking about your neighborhood powerlines. They're talking about distribution lines. The ones that make crackling noises and make your hair stand on end if you're near them.

I can't recall ever seeing a bird on one, but if I ever do, I'll be sure to dig this thread up and post a pic.

 

[LordMorpheus]

the birds are too small and poor conducters for a large potential difference to build in their bodies. If you connected a wire to a birds ankle, and connected the other end to a ground, it would be flash fried. But people generally don't do that.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Atomicus
On normal powerlines, the birds can land on the wire, but don't actually touch. Why? Because they do generate a repulsive force, however, it is only enough to repel the bird's feet a small distance from the wire, this the feet can grasp this "invisible" wire which is repelling. You should see this pretty common in your own yard where there are power lines. Trust me, I'm an environmental engineer and I've read about it.

As for high powered electrical lines, the game's solution is correct. If you've payed attention in your college physics class, magnetic flux goes through most objects, including insulation since its not a transfer of electrons but an invisible force. Just like how even extreme levels of voltage can penetrate insulation, so can a magnetic field actually repel.

I own a copy of Mind Trap and I've never seen an answer wrong before.

What about a squirrel on these lower voltage lines? Do they just levitate?

KK

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: Atomicus
On normal powerlines, the birds can land on the wire, but don't actually touch. Why? Because they do generate a repulsive force, however, it is only enough to repel the bird's feet a small distance from the wire, this the feet can grasp this "invisible" wire which is repelling. You should see this pretty common in your own yard where there are power lines. Trust me, I'm an environmental engineer and I've read about it.

As for high powered electrical lines, the game's solution is correct. If you've payed attention in your college physics class, magnetic flux goes through most objects, including insulation since its not a transfer of electrons but an invisible force. Just like how even extreme levels of voltage can penetrate insulation, so can a magnetic field actually repel.

I own a copy of Mind Trap and I've never seen an answer wrong before.

What about a squirrel on these lower voltage lines? Do they just levitate?

KK

bahahahah