please delete.

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911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,448
1
76
I am not going to call myself a fan of AA and their strategy, but "an employee smuggling out some internal documents" as your evidence leaves me rather baffled.

this is like...tin foil hat area.

I think you are anti-AA b/c you are anti-God in general. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but I seriously question the validity of 5% success.

I'm not taking sides but I've heard of that low rate as well. It's an interesting read if nothing else and looks like an impartial organization.

http://www.addictioninfo.org/articles/1587/1/Estimates-of-AAs-Effectiveness/Page1.html
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
In a nutshell, the people who try to quit on their own do as well as the most famous 12 step program in the world and some studies suggest that they do BETTER than the 12 step program and the 12 step program can't refute it.

this. I did some quick reading and the desire to quit was the most important factor in a person's ability to quit. didn't matter what method they used after that.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,124
779
126
... AND TO everyone sitting here trying to clown on me you can go fuck yourself, you have no idea how hard addiction is to break ....
I'd bet I did more drugs than you've ever seen. You know how I quit? I DIDN'T DO THEM AGAIN. I didn't need no program/hand holding/attention grabbing. I decided enough was enough and I didn't do them again. I didn't get arrested and no one threatened me.
It's as easy as hell. You are in control of your hand, don't pick it up.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
Wow. You bald-faced assertion shows that you literally don't know what you're talking about. 12 step programs are THE most effective method yet devised for keeping people sober. Your ignorance is showing, big time.

Bald faced? Why that's a bold faced lie son.

teenwolf_2.jpg
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
never got arrested, was doing nothing illegal except smoking pot,i got the drugs from a script, its not hard to find opiates in south Florida, its easier to find a pill dealer then a pot dealer

still have my job at office depot, my manager is also in recovery so he let me take a 30 day break from work. AND TO everyone sitting here trying to clown on me you can go fuck yourself, you have no idea how hard addiction is to break just look at cigs,i dont know a kid on campus that doesn't smoke them. There all addicted, were all addicted to something to at one point, my choice unfortunately was drugs.

shens
 

Taejin

Moderator<br>Love & Relationships
Aug 29, 2004
3,270
0
0
Opiates was my DOC, and yes his parents died when he was a kid and left him a fortune. thats chump change for him

Just because he has a lot of money doesn't make him spending forty fucking five THOUSAND dolalrs just for your fail-ass to go to rehab any less significant. I'm only saying this because I don't like the slimy dismissive tone you are using by saying 'oh its just chump change'.

also offer your anal virginity to him. was probably worth a whole lot less. maybe been used for drugs? idk.
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
5
81
In a nutshell, the people who try to quit on their own do as well as the most famous 12 step program in the world and some studies suggest that they do BETTER than the 12 step program and the 12 step program can't refute it.

Then why in the hell are there tons of AA meetings in almost every city in country? Who are putting these meetings on, AA employees? If nobody is getting sober then how in the hell does AA still exist?

Really man, why shit on something that only exists to help people?
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
that's just how he rolls.

seriously, that 5&#37; doesn't sound like much, but it represents how many people? how many lives saved? how many families saved? the benefits are immeasurable. you can point fingers and laugh at AA and similar 12-step programs which may possess some measure of religious framework, but the proof is in the pudding... only a truly malevolent soul would try to discount the advantages of having such programs in society. haters gonna hate...
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,790
5,950
146
Then why in the hell are there tons of AA meetings in almost every city in country? Who are putting these meetings on, AA employees? If nobody is getting sober then how in the hell does AA still exist?

Really man, why shit on something that only exists to help people?
I don't have a beef with AA, but there are tons of meetings because there are tons of addicted people who want to get free of it. It costs nothing, and the inpatient programs ( which do work better ) cost upwards of $10,000.
It is not proper to compare AA to something administered by doctors at a great cost.
The truth is no one can quit if they are not ready. Lots of folks at AA are not ready.

EDIT: OP, best of luck to you.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,229
10,675
126
Then why in the hell are there tons of AA meetings in almost every city in country? Who are putting these meetings on, AA employees? If nobody is getting sober then how in the hell does AA still exist?

Really man, why shit on something that only exists to help people?

Because the courts need a place to send people to make their lives as difficult as possible. I have no idea about the efficacy rates, but I'd suspect it's low. People that quit were ready to quit. There's nothing to do but do it.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
Weed/being a douche?

Still a troll until proven otherwise. Didn't Heller already have a "oh, I'm clean from rehab now" thread?

OP went to rehab for prescription meds, not weed. Please stop giving weed a bad name, thanks. This one's on big pharma ;)
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
OP went to rehab for prescription meds, not weed. Please stop giving weed a bad name, thanks. This one's on big pharma ;)

Oh that's right, I was probably just still confused because he asserted so strongly for so long that all he did was weed. But yeah, I agree about giving weed a bad name, however, this one's on him - not big pharma.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
Because the courts need a place to send people to make their lives as difficult as possible. I have no idea about the efficacy rates, but I'd suspect it's low. People that quit were ready to quit. There's nothing to do but do it.

The efficacy of 12 step programs is dismal. They exist because they are faith based and like so many faith based remedies the system blames the patient when the cure fails, even when the system nearly always fails.
 

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
For some reason ... I believe Heller.

I don't know why except to say that this may explain why Heller is Heller!
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
that's just how he rolls.

seriously, that 5% doesn't sound like much, but it represents how many people? how many lives saved? how many families saved? the benefits are immeasurable. you can point fingers and laugh at AA and similar 12-step programs which may possess some measure of religious framework, but the proof is in the pudding... only a truly malevolent soul would try to discount the advantages of having such programs in society. haters gonna hate...

I don't have to hate to discount such systems. They don't work. That 5% would have quit with out the 12 step program. There are working systems out there that are based on science instead of myth, that is what society should be standing behind.
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
5
81
Because the courts need a place to send people to make their lives as difficult as possible. I have no idea about the efficacy rates, but I'd suspect it's low. People that quit were ready to quit. There's nothing to do but do it.

If I understand AA correctly they have no affiliation with the court system. AA meetings are held by AA members only iirc.
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
5
81
I don't have to hate to discount such systems. They don't work. That 5&#37; would have quit with out the 12 step program. There are working systems out there that are based on science instead of myth, that is what society should be standing behind.

Seems like this article doesn't agree with you.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/06/ff_alcoholics_anonymous/

"Yet a growing body of evidence suggests that while AA is certainly no miracle cure, people who become deeply involved in the program usually do well over the long haul. In a 2006 study, for example, two Stanford psychiatrists chronicled the fates of 628 alcoholics they managed to track over a 16-year period. They concluded that subjects who attended AA meetings frequently were more likely to be sober than those who merely dabbled in the organization. The University of New Mexico&#8217;s Tonigan says the relationship between first-year attendance and long-term sobriety is small but valid: In the language of statistics, the correlation is around 0.3, which is right on the borderline between weak and modest (0 meaning no relationship, and 1.0 being a perfect one-to-one relationship).

'I&#8217;ve been involved in a couple of meta-analyses of AA, which collapse the findings across many studies,&#8221; Tonigan says. &#8220;They generally all come to the same conclusion, which is that AA is beneficial for many but not all individuals, and that the benefit is modest but significant &#8230; I think that is, scientifically speaking, a very valid statement.'

That statement is also supported by the results of a landmark study that examined how the steps perform when taught in clinical settings as opposed to church basements. Between 1989 and 1997, a multisite study called Project Match randomly assigned more than 1,700 alcoholics to one of three popular therapies used at professional treatment centers. The first was called 12-step facilitation, in which a licensed therapist guides patients through Bill Wilson&#8217;s method. The second was cognitive behavioral therapy, which trains alcoholics to identify the situations that spur them to drink, so they can avoid tempting circumstances. And the last was motivational enhancement therapy, a one-on-one interviewing process designed to sharpen a person&#8217;s reasons for getting sober.
Project Match ultimately concluded that all three of these therapies were more or less equally effective at reducing alcohol intake among subjects. But 12-step facilitation clearly beat the competition in two important respects: It was more effective for alcoholics without other psychiatric problems, and it did a better job of inspiring total abstinence as opposed to a mere reduction in drinking. The steps, in other words, actually worked slightly better than therapies of more "
 
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meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
I don't have to hate to discount such systems. They don't work. That 5% would have quit with out the 12 step program. There are working systems out there that are based on science instead of myth, that is what society should be standing behind.

lol religion, sky fairies, myth etc etc. relig-trolls need new material
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,229
10,675
126
If I understand AA correctly they have no affiliation with the court system. AA meetings are held by AA members only iirc.

Yea, they aren't owned by state agencies, but it's common, at least in MD to mandate AA meetings for DUI offenses.
 
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