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Please critique my new rig (DFInF4?)

I

illumin8

Junior Member
I'm thinking of buying a new rig and I wanted to know what everyone thought about the parts I'm choosing. The really big question I have is about the motherboard. I want to get the DFI Lanparty nF4 UT SLI version, so that I have the capability of upgrading to SLI in the future, and there is a great deal for $125 on this board refurb. at Newegg. I'm just wondering if I should buy this, or do you think I should spend the full amount of money and get a non-refurb. board? I bought a refurb. board from Newegg in the past and it didn't come with any cables or a manual or anything, other than the board. Do you think it's worth risking it for the low price?

Another question I have is about the hard drive. I've heard that you can't overclock very far using SATA drives, since the SATA controller is locked to the FSB frequency and you get data corruption when you run it too fast, whereas the PATA controller is on the PCI bus so you can use the PCI lock to keep it at a stable speed while overclocking the CPU/memory. What is the best recommendation for overclocking, PATA or SATA internal hard drives?

Another question deals with cooling and overclocking. I want this rig to be overclockable. I'm specifically buying all the components that will allow me to get the maximum overclock with stability. I want to know what type of cooling I should get for the CPU and also case fans. I also would like it to be quiet. Here is my component list, please critique it and let me know what you think:

* Coolermaster Wave Master TAC-T01-E1C Silver All Aluminum Alloy ATX Mid Tower Case without Power Supply
* Refurbished: DFI Lanparty UT nF4 SLI-DR Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - OEM
* Enermax Whisper II EG565P-VE FMA(24P) ATX12V 535W Power Supply - Retail
* AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1Ghz. FSB
* OCZ EL Platinum Rev. 2 1GB (2x 512MB) 184-pin DDR SDRAM PC3200
* XFX PVT70FUNDE Geforce 7800GTX 256MB GDDR3 PCIe x16 Video Card (factory overclocked)
* Samsung SpinPoint P Series SP2004C 200GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0gb hard drive (8MB cache, 8.9ms average seek, Native command queueing)

Thanks again for all your advice.
 
I personally wouldn't go with a refurb board but that's just me.

I would also look at a dif brand 7800gtx but again that's just me.

Looks good overall
 
Oh, I'm also wondering about the OCZ Platinum rev. 2 memory. Is this memory using the Samsung TCCD chips that are best for OC still? I read Anand's mid-to-high end buying guide and they expressed concern that the OCZ platinum rev. 2 chips might not be using the same Samsung TCCD chips that are best for overclocking.

Oh, and recommendations for CPU HSF and case fans would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
The refurb boards at newegg are documented to miss all the accessories. Would suck not to get the SLI bridge. Mosts board actually seem to ship with accessories but it is hit-and miss.

Over at xtremesystems there are a lot of references to DFI boards dying and killing components with them, so maybe be extra careful with a refurb DFI board. Overall I would rather buy a used one.

If you want to overlock high the Venice is on average better. The bigger cache on the S.D. can limit it. Remember the whole thing is a huge chunk of the chip and all of it have to cooperate.

I doubt that the SATA ports are not locked. If they are behind PCIe surely they are as PCI e is or can be locked at 100 MHz.

For overall syste performance when using it (not for overclocking) it would be better to ship some money from the expensive RAM (it is of very limited real world use) to a faster harddrive.

For cooling I would use the Zalman 7700Cu. I have a few high-end Air coolers and I always ending up liking Zalman products best. Plus its design means that it has good airflow on your RAM.
 
Originally posted by: illumin8
Oh, I'm also wondering about the OCZ Platinum rev. 2 memory. Is this memory using the Samsung TCCD chips that are best for OC still? I read Anand's mid-to-high end buying guide and they expressed concern that the OCZ platinum rev. 2 chips might not be using the same Samsung TCCD chips that are best for overclocking.
Click to expand...

That memory is TCC5. Revision F of TCC5 is supposed to be as good as TCCD but that would be impossible to see before buying.
 
Great advice Martin and thanks! I hear about people getting 250+ on the DFI nF4 boards and I want to see similar results. I might be better off going with the 512k L2 cache for just the reason you mentioned. I know the 1MB L2 cache adds to the transistor count and can generate more heat, and a more difficult overclock.

Perhaps I should just get Corsair value RAM and leave everything running at stock speed?

edit: Which Venice is the best for OC right now?
 
I use SATA HDD and DVD drives with my DFI nF4 Ultra board and there was no problem with overclocking. I believe they are locked.
 
Originally posted by: illumin8
edit: Which Venice is the best for OC right now?
Click to expand...

Here are average overclocks I computed for Venices off the xtremsystems forums:
3000+ 2745.2 (51) 384.927
3200+ 2794.19 (37) 459.762
3500+ 2822.4 (10) 893.115
3800+ 2893.5 (8) 1024.95

Second row is overclocked speed, third is number of systems.

As you can see the low-level chips are very close. If you count in that the more expensive chips are very likely bought by people who invest into better other components it is likely that the four chips are pretty much identical in their chances to overclock well.

Now, what remains to be seen is whether the E6 stepping is better or worse than the E3.
 
Originally posted by: illumin8
Great advice Martin and thanks! I hear about people getting 250+ on the DFI nF4 boards and I want to see similar results. I might be better off going with the 512k L2 cache for just the reason you mentioned. I know the 1MB L2 cache adds to the transistor count and can generate more heat, and a more difficult overclock.

Perhaps I should just get Corsair value RAM and leave everything running at stock speed?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go value either. And note that without a FX chip you cannot leave the RAM literally at stock speed. The granularity of the HTT/RAM divider forces you to over-or underclock your RAM for almost all HTT settings.

If you want this for actual computer speed while using it I would just get the cheapest PC3200 2-2-2-5-1T memory you can get. Forget about the bandwidth, for AMD64 get low latency.

Personally I only buy ECC memory but if you forced me to buy normal RAM today for a gaming system I would get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220033
From what I have seen it is almost certainly TCCD (not TCC5) on the prainpower PCB.

And yes, as you say the bigger cache is questionable from a performance improvement standpoint. And the cache is huge, you have a lot more transistors who all need to cooperate with your overclock. I don't think heat is an issue here but timing and the personalities of inidvidual transistors certainly are.
 
"3000+ 2745.2 (51) 384.927
3200+ 2794.19 (37) 459.762
3500+ 2822.4 (10) 893.115
3800+ 2893.5 (8) 1024.95
"

All trash. None of those has stability.
 
Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
"3000+ 2745.2 (51) 384.927
3200+ 2794.19 (37) 459.762
3500+ 2822.4 (10) 893.115
3800+ 2893.5 (8) 1024.95
"

All trash. None of those has stability.
Click to expand...

I have no information on whether these went through the whole Prime95/SuperPi/`make world` test.

However, as long as these measurements have been taken all under the same conditions and testing you can still conclude how close the chips are relative to each other.

Personally I have hardcore overclockers see testing their systems better than normal people, I wouldn't dismiss these numbers outright.
 
patriot 2x1gb's 2-3-2@200 is 199 at outpost

the dfi sli board has so many accessories, part of its high price, if you really want it for cheap, see if you can get one from fs/ft cause it seems pointless to take a chance with a refurb from newegg

or wait until crossfire comes out whenever its supposed to come out, it's priced to compete with the ultra's so nvidia will do a massive price-cut to match

like the PSU choice
 
subtract 100 mhz from the averages will probably give you a rough estimate, the averages for 3000+'s isn't 2.75, its between 2.6 and 2.7

but this is pointless because he's getting a san diego

I would expect 2.8 from a 3700+
 
tccd is not worth it on amd64 systems, low latency ram will win, next gen rts games are coming out in the next year

newer fps seem to like 2 gigs as well, I don't think buying 2x512's is worth is right now
 
Originally posted by: illumin8
Perhaps I should just get Corsair value RAM and leave everything running at stock speed
Click to expand...

No,... don't do that! The Corsair VS has been very problematic for many people on the DFI sli-dr. I recommend the OCZ Gold, OCZ Plat R2, OCZ Gold VX, Mushkin Black, or Mushkin Redline. In your case (looking to OC past 250) you are much better off buying some good ram rather than Value ram.
I'd also spend the cash for a new MB not a refurb.
Finally I'd suggest the EVGA 7800GTX
 
Go with an eVGA 7800GTX and get a Zalman vf-700Cu to make it quieter.
Get 1GB of Mushkin RedLine PC4000 for overclocking.
Stick with that Samsung SpinPoint. Nice and quiet drive.
 
if you can find the new thermalright videocooler, its significantly better than the zalman

corsair ram is a no-no of the dfi nf4
 
Excellent advice everyone. I decided to buy the XFX 7800 GTX since I didn't have BF2 yet and they had a pretty good bundle going. It is factory overclocked as much as the EVGA, although it doesn't have quite the same warranty as you get from EVGA.

I think the San Diego core might be better as it will have a higher multiplier and will have a "guaranteed" clock rate that is higher than the Venice cores. I have also heard good results from people using San Diego.

I will check out the Patriot memory... is this brand any good? It seems to have good reviews from people on Newegg, but I just haven't heard of that brand before and would rather go with a brand like OCZ that is more trusted.
 
they have the same ic's (integrated chips) as the ocz that are 2-3-2@200

so they shouldn't be that much variation in their overclock

their tccd was cheaper than everyone else as well

anandtech memory reviews have them but i haven't seen a review for this memory
 
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