Played NFS Shift and then I played RACE 07...

[ixelion]

I know Race 07 is old news to you all, but I am writing this in light of having recenty played Race 07 and Shift for the first time.

If we boil it down to one factor: How enjoyable is the driving experience - Not how realistic it is, Not how fast it is, and Not how pretty it looks, then Race 07 wins by a wide margin imho.

Why?

The driving is amazingly fun, deep, challenging, complex - you are no longer playing a video game, your are driving a real freaking touring car. The feeling of the cars gripping the road, the way the car shakes when it struggles - it is simply jaw dropping. Mind you I am playing this game with a $14 Nascar wheel, I can't even imagine this with a G25.

But realism is not necessarily the factor here, you need SKILL. This has always been my problem with racing games, I get bored FAST ala Shift, because very little skill is needed to handle the cars. This is not to be confused with overall game difficulty, a game can be hard but still have very easy car handling mechanics.

If you think about it part of the reason why we get pleasure from video games is because we learn how to master them, so, for some, the more there is to master the more enjoyable the experience is, which leads me to my other point:

I almost threw my wheel at the monitor during my first hour or so with Race 07. I spun out, crashed, and simply drove off the road several times when I started. But each time it happened I knew exactly why it happened, and you can correct your driving as such. You need to master many things you may have taken for granted, braking, accelerating etc. Once you've mastered these basics, it becomes addictive as hell - never has a driving game pulled me in this much.

Best of all constant 60fps, yes the graphics are not amazing but you'll get over it fast.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Call me simple if you want, but I for one don't think a several-hour learning curve is an advantage in the games I play. I like NFS: Shift because it's easy to get the hang of. It also has excellent graphics. Mostly, I just find it fun. That's pretty important for games.

Not taking anything away from Race 07 since I haven't even played it, but they seem like pretty different games. Seems like comparing Race 07 to NFS Shift is like comparing Sins of a Solar Empire to Command & Conquer.

Like I said though, fun is the most important thing. If you find Race 07 fun, keep playing it. Doesn't matter what other people say.

 

[tdawg]

Originally posted by: ixelion
I know Race 07 is old news to you all, but I am writing this in light of having recenty played Race 07 and Shift for the first time.

If we boil it down to one factor: How enjoyable is the driving experience - Not how realistic it is, Not how fast it is, and Not how pretty it looks, then Race 07 wins by a wide margin imho.

Why?

The driving is amazingly fun, deep, challenging, complex - you are no longer playing a video game, your are driving a real freaking touring car. The feeling of the cars gripping the road, the way the car shakes when it struggles - it is simply jaw dropping. Mind you I am playing this game with a $14 Nascar wheel, I can't even imagine this with a G25.

But realism is not necessarily the factor here, you need SKILL. This has always been my problem with racing games, I get bored FAST ala Shift, because very little skill is needed to handle the cars. This is not to be confused with overall game difficulty, a game can be hard but still have very easy car handling mechanics.

If you think about it part of the reason why we get pleasure from video games is because we learn how to master them, so, for some, the more there is to master the more enjoyable the experience is, which leads me to my other point:

I almost threw my wheel at the monitor during my first hour or so with Race 07. I spun out, crashed, and simply drove off the road several times when I started. But each time it happened I knew exactly why it happened, and you can correct your driving as such. You need to master many things you may have taken for granted, braking, accelerating etc. Once you've mastered these basics, it becomes addictive as hell - never has a driving game pulled me in this much.

Best of all constant 60fps, yes the graphics are not amazing but you'll get over it fast.

You should give iracing.com a try. It's a subscription model game, but very realistic with a solid community. Very deep, if you're into very realistic driving. You might have to upgrade that wheel though.

 

[manimal]

Turn off all driving assists in shift and the racing line with a G25 wheel and compare the two. I actuall like race 07 as well but comparing the two is apples to oranges, I may like real sims more than most-cold starting a F16 with falcon 4 mods etc- but the arcadey fun of slamming my buddy into a wall and getting style points for it is too hard to pass up.

I have thougt about irancing but another subscription I dont need said yoda.....

 

[zerocool84]

I never understand why people compare racing "simulators" to games like Need for Speed. Need for Speed games have always been arcade racers to cater to the wider population that doesn't want a hugely unforgiving racing game. Even the newest Need for Speed: Shift is still very much arcadey.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I never understand why people compare racing "simulators" to games like Need for Speed. Need for Speed games have always been arcade racers to cater to the wider population that doesn't want a hugely unforgiving racing game. Even the newest Need for Speed: Shift is still very much arcadey.

Maybe it's because they're marketing Shift as a sim (or at least sim-like). It is the most sim-like installment of NFS yet, but it's still arcadey. Everyone knows this.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I never understand why people compare racing "simulators" to games like Need for Speed. Need for Speed games have always been arcade racers to cater to the wider population that doesn't want a hugely unforgiving racing game. Even the newest Need for Speed: Shift is still very much arcadey.

Maybe it's because they're marketing Shift as a sim (or at least sim-like). It is the most sim-like installment of NFS yet, but it's still arcadey. Everyone knows this.

it's the default configurations of Shift that have ruined it.

Turn off all assists, drive with a wheel, and you can feel the game offers a capable sim experience. However, there are either some bugs in the car configuration settings, or the configs by default are off. That, and adjusting them, it seems there is either a bug or a miscalculation going on somewhere. But when you do find the right settings, it can be evident the game has a realistic core. It's just hard to find, likely due to EA's demands from Slightly Mad Studios for how the game would play.

That, and the AI is ridiculous, and the main complaint with the settings lies in the tire pressure settings. The game has amazing tire deformation, and track surfaces are detailed like I've never seen before.

Here's to hoping SMS takes the core engine and puts it in a game they self publish or have published by someone other than EA, or at least not under the NFS banner.

However, I have generally found Shift to be a very enjoyable sim if you tackle it appropriately, and play around with settings or find user configs online. I also own Race 07, and I don't quite agree with it being an amazing sim. It's great, and tackles some behavior more accurately than Shift by default - however, it also provides some unpredictable results in handling at times too. However, I am looking forward to Race ON - whenever they actually release it. Should be the end of this month, so IGN has screwed up and stated the release date was the end of August, then that passed, and they updated it as releasing at the end of September, and again that didn't happen. I think it's been set for late October the entire time but IGN has screwed with my desires and hopes, and I am upset with them for that.

SimBin seriously needs to release a PC title with the "Lizard" engine (the one used in Race Pro). Why they keep releasing expansion packs with the same dated engine is getting confusing. Oh well. It'd be cool if SimBin collaborated with SMS (of which now houses the former Blimey Games devs which developed the GTR series for SimBin, the games SimBin is most reknowned for, and fans say offer a better sim experience than the Race 07 series). Make a GTR3 perhaps, with the engine that powered Shift, with more accurate car configurations? That'd be awesome.

 

[ixelion]

That, and the AI is ridiculous, and the main complaint with the settings lies in the tire pressure settings.

Yes I had this issue with Shift as well.


As for the arcade vs sim experience: basically throw out those two categories as Shift doesn't really belong to either one exclusively - instead I simply gauged the enjoyability of the driving experience, enjoyability being determined mainly by the rewarding feeling of mastering the complexities of driving.

What I neglected to take into consideration is that not everyone plays racing games to "master realistic racing", but enjoyability can be had from smashing into your friend and gaining style points as you said.

But IMHO, as a jaded gamer, arcade games' appeal is only short and sweet - while Race 07 is something that I won't be putting down anytime soon because it's just so deep.

Yes I grant you that Shift does have a lot of Sim qualities, that's what drove me to it in the first place, and for a while I was partly satisfied - but Race 07 just takes the cake.

 

[CP5670]

As for the arcade vs sim experience: basically throw out those two categories as Shift doesn't really belong to either one exclusively - instead I simply gauged the enjoyability of the driving experience, enjoyability being determined mainly by the rewarding feeling of mastering the complexities of driving.

Most realistic racing sims actually don't appeal to me for this reason. I like the fact that the car handling is more complex and takes time to master, but they also leave out many things from pure arcade racers that add a lot of fun and depth to the gameplay. The few unrealistic racers I've played have far more interesting and original tracks (I'm thinking Rollcage, Trackmania or Megarace here), and often have weapons, afterburners and other such powerups.

We haven't seen any truly unrealistic racers on the PC for quite some time now. The games people put in that category today are in truth somewhere between realistic and arcade-like.