Plateaus and how to approach them.

Apr 17, 2003
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So I didn't want to thread jack Wyndru's thread here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316303

...but I had a similar question.

Long story short, I started the 5x5 plan at the recommedaiton of a lot of the folks here and elsewhere. I've hit plateaus here and there, but I have run into a massive one for the last couple of months.

Basically, I'm stuck at 115 bench press and 80 pound military press. I can get to the 5th set set on each one but crap out after the 3rd rep, 2 short of completing the 5x5. I've tried to lower each by 5 pounds, and I can cosistenly complete them at 110/75 respectively.

I'm almost 6 feet, weigh 163.

Based on the info in the thread I linked, should I try a 3x5? Is it too "early" to lower the reps to 3? Should I just stick to 110/75 @ 5x5 longer?
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
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There are lots of things a person can do to break through plateaus. Most common suggestion would be to drop the weight you're working with by 10 or 20% and start climbing up again using whatever progression you were using before.
 

KIAman

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
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Stuck on that plateu for couple of months? 163lbs at 6 feet tall? Sounds like you need to eat ALOT more.

I personally wouldn't start 3x5 until you get to 1xbody bench, 1.5xbody squats and .65xbody OHP.

Just to give you personal info, I was 6 feet tall and 175lbs and I could barely put up 115lbs bench. Once I got to 200lbs or so, I was able to consistently up the weights until I got to 240lbs.

I think there is an optimal weight for a given height to really push through for strength. I won't personally try to go over 210lbs at most, but at 200lbs, I believe that will give me enough potential to bench 1.5x and squat 2x my body weight. 163lbs on a 6 feet frame doesn't seem like it's gonna cut it.
 
Apr 17, 2003
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Stuck on that plateu for couple of months? 163lbs at 6 feet tall? Sounds like you need to eat ALOT more.

I personally wouldn't start 3x5 until you get to 1xbody bench, 1.5xbody squats and .65xbody OHP.

Just to give you personal info, I was 6 feet tall and 175lbs and I could barely put up 115lbs bench. Once I got to 200lbs or so, I was able to consistently up the weights until I got to 240lbs.

I think there is an optimal weight for a given height to really push through for strength. I won't personally try to go over 210lbs at most, but at 200lbs, I believe that will give me enough potential to bench 1.5x and squat 2x my body weight. 163lbs on a 6 feet frame doesn't seem like it's gonna cut it.

I was 197 in August 2012 but it was all fat...I made a huge change in diet, eat less, eat better. I lost ~35 pounds. At the time, my agenda was to lose fat and the gym was the icing on the cake to get some muscle tone.

I'm making an effort to each more now. I'm now incorporating 1 avocado and 2 tbsp of peanut butter every day into my diet to increase fat intake as well.

I've never tried 1x body weight on the bench, but I did not 3x 140 as a "max"

I did 95 pound for the OHP (around ~58 percent).

I maxed my squat (3x) at body weight.

Looks like I'll lower the weights and try again.
 
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KIAman

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
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I was 197 in August 2012 but it was all fat...I made a huge change in diet, eat less, eat better. I lost ~35 pounds. I'm making an effort to each more now. I'm incorporating 1 avocado and 2 tbsp of peanut butter every day into my diet to increase fat intake as well.

I've never tried 1x body weight on the bench, but I did not 3x 140 as a "max"

I did 95 pound for the OHP (around ~58 percent).

I maxed my squat (3x) at body weight.

Looks like I'll lower the weights and try again.


I'm just saying that I don't think you are heavy enough to consistently up the weights you are lifting.

At 6feet tall and 163lbs, I would be surprised if you ever reach body weight bench or 1.5x squats. For a 6 feet tall frame, that doesn't give you a lot of muscle mass to move serious weights.

Remember that force that a muscle produces is proportional to the cross-sectional area of the muscle.

So if you maintain your 163lbs at 6 feet tall and were able to bench 165lbs and squat 250lbs, you would be SUPER RIPPED to shreds, lol because you muscles are super efficient and you would have no body fat.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Apr 17, 2003
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I'm just saying that I don't think you are heavy enough to consistently up the weights you are lifting.

At 6feet tall and 163lbs, I would be surprised if you ever reach body weight bench or 1.5x squats. For a 6 feet tall frame, that doesn't give you a lot of muscle mass to move serious weights.

Remember that force that a muscle produces is proportional to the cross-sectional area of the muscle.

So if you maintain your 163lbs at 6 feet tall and were able to bench 165lbs and squat 250lbs, you would be SUPER RIPPED to shreds, lol because you muscles are super efficient and you would have no body fat.

That's all I'm saying.

I'm not taking objection with your point, just trying to explain where I was and how my focus is changing from losing weight to now putting on muscle.

My question is what should I be eating during the day to keep some mass??? I'm looking for really easy things that I can throw in my pack every morning.

Thanks!
 

Sid59

Lifer
Sep 2, 2002
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plateau breakers:
deload & work back up - sounds like you're working that
form - without anyone correcting form - you'll have to turn to videos and having people give you feedback
rest - how much rest inbetween sets?
a week long break from lifting - how often are you going and how long have you been lifting without a break
diet - evaluate and adjust. the general consensus is 1g of protein per ideal body weight.

happy lifting!
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
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I'm not taking objection with your point, just trying to explain where I was and how my focus is changing from losing weight to now putting on muscle.

My question is what should I be eating during the day to keep some mass??? I'm looking for really easy things that I can throw in my pack every morning.

Thanks!

It really doesn't matter. Just make sure you're getting 1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight, so 163g of protein and more as you start gaining weight.

You also need to be in a caloric surplus. SociallyChallenged has a good list of foods in the stickied threads, but as long as you get enough protein and enough calories, it doesn't matter too much what you're eating.

You can google "bulking diets" if you want. When I switch from cutting to bulking (should be in another six weeks or so), I'm probably going to add a bunch of pasta, breads, and fatty meats to my diet. Those are the foods that I miss, and I'm already getting enough protein and fiber, so I'll have that flexibility.
 

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
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rest - how much rest inbetween sets?

This is an important point for me, especially on bench press. I got stuck at 145 until I started taking 3+minute breaks. Prior to that I was only taking 2 minute breaks.

I didn't expect that much of a change, but it got me up to 165 before my next plateau. Then I read that doing dumbell bench presses as a supplement exercise (which provides more range of motion) helps also. I'm still stuck at 165, so that didn't help for me (yet).
 
Apr 17, 2003
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It really doesn't matter. Just make sure you're getting 1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight, so 163g of protein and more as you start gaining weight.

You also need to be in a caloric surplus. SociallyChallenged has a good list of foods in the stickied threads, but as long as you get enough protein and enough calories, it doesn't matter too much what you're eating.

You can google "bulking diets" if you want. When I switch from cutting to bulking (should be in another six weeks or so), I'm probably going to add a bunch of pasta, breads, and fatty meats to my diet. Those are the foods that I miss, and I'm already getting enough protein and fiber, so I'll have that flexibility.

I get 120 - 130 g per day and that's just about all I can do. I guess if I switch to two shakes a day, I can get there.
 
Apr 17, 2003
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plateau breakers:
deload & work back up - sounds like you're working that
form - without anyone correcting form - you'll have to turn to videos and having people give you feedback
rest - how much rest inbetween sets?
a week long break from lifting - how often are you going and how long have you been lifting without a break
diet - evaluate and adjust. the general consensus is 1g of protein per ideal body weight.

happy lifting!

just to try to answer some Q:

Form: there are a few regulars at the gym who have helped me out in the past but I'm going to start to go with a friend of mine every weekend so I get more consistent feedback. For whatever reason, I just can't bring myself to busting out the cell phone camara at the gym!

Rest: 90 seconds between sets.


Breaks: 1 week off every 4-5 weeks.

Diet: getting about .75g per lb now. Will be adding a second shake.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
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I get 120 - 130 g per day and that's just about all I can do. I guess if I switch to two shakes a day, I can get there.

I suspect that's enough already, but conventional bodybuilder wisdom is 1g/lb.

So IDK. There are lots of easy ways to increase protein. Cottage cheese, protein powder, eggs, etc.

One thing I did to increase protein was switch from 3 scrambled eggs in the morning to 2 eggs + 1/2 cup of fresh egg whites.
 

mple

Senior member
Oct 10, 2011
278
1
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Research using nitrogen balance techniques suggests 0.82g of complete protein per lb of lean body mass will be all that the average lifter needs to maintain/build mass. You can eat more (and I do because I love meat) but it will not affect muscle protein synthesis to any greater extent.

Based on previous threads/posts I've read, the OP is clearly not eating enough total calories. Gaining strength, muscle mass, and fat all come packaged together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4GgbzzOZlaY
 
Apr 17, 2003
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mple

Senior member
Oct 10, 2011
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Chocolate milk has calories, so yes it can be used. I'd imagine it'd taste pretty good with the right protein powder as well. You don't have to drink a whole gallon of it or even a half gallon. Just fit it into your diet in order to put yourself into a slight surplus.
 
Apr 17, 2003
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Chocolate milk has calories, so yes it can be used. I'd imagine it'd taste pretty good with the right protein powder as well. You don't have to drink a whole gallon of it or even a half gallon. Just fit it into your diet in order to put yourself into a slight surplus.

Looks like half a gallon = ~1200 calories...adding three bananas during the day plus my regular meals should should get me there pretty easily!
 
Mar 22, 2002
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It really doesn't matter. Just make sure you're getting 1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight, so 163g of protein and more as you start gaining weight.

You also need to be in a caloric surplus. SociallyChallenged has a good list of foods in the stickied threads, but as long as you get enough protein and enough calories, it doesn't matter too much what you're eating.

You can google "bulking diets" if you want. When I switch from cutting to bulking (should be in another six weeks or so), I'm probably going to add a bunch of pasta, breads, and fatty meats to my diet. Those are the foods that I miss, and I'm already getting enough protein and fiber, so I'll have that flexibility.

Well, actually, the 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight mantra is incorrect. Research shows that athletes (even strength based athletes) really only require up to 1.8g of protein per kg of lean body mass if I remember correctly. So let's say somebody is 220 pounds, 15% body fat. Converted, 220 pounds is 100kg - 15kg for body fat. That's 1.8 x 85 = 153 for a fairly large individual. There are a lot of people who stress protein too much (mainly bodybuilders, which has spilled into strength training). I just came in to specify the details a bit on this.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
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Thanks, I've always thought the 1g/lb was a very high number and meeting it (or getting close) meant you probably had a "safety factor" built in.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Thanks, I've always thought the 1g/lb was a very high number and meeting it (or getting close) meant you probably had a "safety factor" built in.

Yeah, I think people originally used the research, then converted roughly to pounds of lean body mass and estimated to the nearest round number. After that, I think it just morphed into pound of body weight. I especially like to mention it for individuals who just have a hard time eating so much protein due to satiety, stomach issues, etc. A lower amount has shown to be effective for active athletes. :)