Plasma monitor general (PF50, BT300, VX300 etc)

[Chad_Thunder]

This is now a thread for plasma monitors, anyone who has/does use one I want to hear about it

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panason...manuals/th-42pf50u-Operating_Instructions.pdf

 

[Chad_Thunder]

[Updated 26/8] List of plasma monitors

All support RGB (4:4:4), 1 to 1 pixel mapping and refresh rates up to 125hz* natively

Panasonic 42PF50U 42" (6,144 gradations)
Panasonic 50PF50U 50" (6,144 gradations)
Panasonic 60PF50U 60" (6,144 gradations)
Panasonic 65PF50U 65" (6,144 gradations)
Panasonic 42BT300U 42" (12,288 gradations, 30-bit processing, simultaneous 3D, external scaler mode)
Panasonic 50BT300U 50" (12,288 gradations, 30-bit processing, simultaneous 3D, external scaler mode)
Panasonic 65VX300U 65" (12,288 gradations, 30-bit processing, simultaneous 3D, external scaler mode)

*confirmed at 1280 x 720 and below, using reduced blanking you can get respectable refresh rates at any resolution (1080p @ 75Hz, 1440 x 1080 @ 100Hz etc)
It's reasonably likely that an expansion board or scaler bypass mode might allow for 125hz at any resolution


Panasonic 42PF30 42" next to my Apple Cinema Display 21" (Sony Trinitron tube)

 

[cmdrdredd]

Input lag may be a problem. Plus not many people use a 42"+ monitor.

 

[Chad_Thunder]

Input lag may be a problem

That is something I will be testing :thumbsup: I didn't notice any but I didn't spent much time with the PF50

 

[SlowSpyder]

More home audio related, but I have a 52" 1080P Samsung LCD and a 43" 720P Samsung plasma. The 52" is fairly old, probably nearly five years now, but it was towards the top of Samsung's line at the time a $2300 TV (at Best Buy). The plasma was a clearance model I got from Best Buy less than a year ago. I got it for $399, they said the normal price was $599, it may help you place it in their product line... I've never really looked.

Now having used both the LCD and plasma for movie watching, I have to say the plasma is winning me over. The 52" has amazing colors, the plasma seems just very slightly less vibrant, but yet more life like. My LCD does a pretty good job with blacks, but where the plasma really seems to excel is in the details in the darker shades. I see details in faces and certain darker scenes that I just cannot get on my LCD no matter how I adjust it.

I am very happy with the picture quality of both, but if I had to choose based on my experience, I'd give a slight edge to the plasma... so yea, one plasma fan here.

 

[bystander36]

Looking at page 65, you'll see that this is not really a monitor. It certainly is not a 120hz monitor. It only supports 1080p and 1200p @ 60hz and no higher. I did notice 120hz was mentioned a few times in regard to 3D. I can only guess that means it can do 3D with frame packing, which technically is still only 60hz in 3D.

Have you actually look at the "monitor"s refresh rate in the desktop or in game?

 

[Chad_Thunder]

@SlowSpyder
glad to hear it, the black to white contrast is mind blowing imo
very crt like

@bystander36
If it is not 120hz I will eat my hat

The technology in which the left-eye and right-eye 3D
images are sent to the viewer is the key to 3D image
quality. For this, FULL HD 3D uses something called
the Frame Sequential technology. First, the plasma
display, which has a number of inherent advantages
for moving picture resolution, was further advanced to
allow images for each of the left and right eyes to be
alternately reproduced at the rate of 60 frames per
second (fps), making a total of 120 fps for both eyes.

 

[bystander36]

@SlowSpyder
glad to hear it, the black to white contrast is mind blowing imo
very crt like

@bystander36
If it is not 120hz I will eat my hat even certain consumer models(ST30,VT50) have been confirmed to push 120hz without DVI

Do you mind posting a link? Without dual link DVI-D or Displayport, you cannot normally get higher than 60hz without reduced resolution, unless you are talking about the interpolation stuff that HDTV's do, which doesn't work with PC's.

Or if you have one, open up the monitor panel and check to see what the highest setting you can set it to at 1080p.

 

[Chad_Thunder]

Here's a link

http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/

I don't have the unit yet but it does have Dual DVI

 

[bystander36]

Here's a link

http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/

I don't have the unit yet but it does have Dual DVI

That is not exactly what I was talking about. That is a method to create a custom refresh rate, and it is not something all if not most HDTV's can do.

Which brings me back to the original post. That is not a monitor. It is an HDTV. Hopefully you get lucky and can create a custom 120hz resolution, and please let us know if you can.

 

[Chad_Thunder]

Well the manual was right, this is THE holy grail of gaming displays

Computer signals which can be input are those with a horizontal scanning frequency of 15 to 110 kHz and vertical scanning frequency of 48 to 120 Hz

I just pushed 800x600@120hz and 1024x768@100hz over vga from my laptop, using the "-freq 120" switch on cs 1.6 I can tell you this is at least as fast as CRT possibly faster

I literally can not wait to get one of these home with Dual DVI

 

[Black Octagon]

Well the manual was right, this is THE holy grail of gaming displays

Based on what? Reaching 120Hz on low resolutions? Even at 1080p the PPI of this thing would be a nightmare, unless you're gaming from several metres away.

 

[RussianSensation]

If it is not 120hz I will eat my hat

120Hz refers to 3D only. Regardless, refresh rate in terms of Hz is a meaningless metric for plasma TVs. This is not how plasma functions. For example, you cannot compare 120Hz LCD vs. 240Hz LCD vs. 600Hz Plasma.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57524894-221/what-is-refresh-rate/

Plasma has superior response time and doesn't suffer from motion blur like LCD does but as a gas it has nearly instantaneous response time. However, if you think that if you buy a 120 or a 600Hz plasma and you can actually see 120-600 fps if your card could deliver it, that's not the case.

The reason Plasma feels so much faster than LCD/LED and is similar to CRT has little to do with its advertised 120Hz refresh rate.

 

[Chad_Thunder]

Based on what? Reaching 120Hz on low resolutions? Even at 1080p the PPI of this thing would be a nightmare, unless you're gaming from several metres away.

In my opinion when you eliminate motion blur you are able to see more detail by default, 4k, 8k or whatever static resolution is a meaningless number if motion handling is not up to par

120Hz refers to 3D only. Regardless, refresh rate in terms of Hz is a meaningless metric for plasma TVs. This is now how plasma functions. For example, you cannot compare 120Hz LCD vs. 240Hz LCD vs. 600Hz Plasma.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57524894-221/what-is-refresh-rate/

Plasma has superior response time and doesn't suffer from motion blur like LCD does but as a gas it has nearly instantaneous response time. However, if you think that if you buy a 120 or a 600Hz plasma and you can actually see 120-600 fps if your card could deliver it, that's not the case.

The reason Plasma feels so much faster than LCD/LED and it similar to CRT has little to do with its advertised 120Hz refresh rate.

No it was definitely displaying 120hz in 2D mode, the OSD picked up the signal as 77.2kHz by 120.1hz and to confirm what I was seeing I loaded up CS with all the correct settings "-freq 120" "fps_override 1" "fps_max 120" etc and the motion was as smooth as butter, literally instantaneous compared to 60hz even the input lag was halved

The 600hz/2500hz and so on is related to how many pulses are displayed between each refresh, I'm sure someone else can explain it better but frames are built by pulses of light with different intensities

 

[RussianSensation]

In my opinion when you eliminate motion blur you are able to see more detail by default, 4k, 8k or whatever static resolution is a meaningless number if motion handling is not up to par

I agree. That's why right now I am stuck between poor quality LCD/LED monitors/TVs and Plasma TVs that are only 1080P and aren't optimal for PC usage (say if you want to do MS Word or Excel for 8-10 hours for work) because of burn-in over time. I am hoping OLED technology becomes affordable in the next 3-5 years so I can upgrade to something much better. I have a plasma for my home theatre and every single LED/LCD pales in comparison when it comes to accurate colors, viewing angles, response time/motion blur and deep black levels. That's why even if they bring 8K to LCDs, it doesn't mean much to me because LCD/LED image quality is still sub-par the minute you want to watch sports or movies.

 

[Black Octagon]

In my opinion when you eliminate motion blur you are able to see more detail by default, 4k, 8k or whatever static resolution is a meaningless number if motion handling is not up to par

I share that opinion. However, on a 1080p display (such as this), 42-inches means a truly horrendous PPI and dot pitch combination for use as a computer monitor on a desk. Selecting even LOWER resolutions will only exacerbate this problem, regardless of improvements to motion handling that one can achieve at these lower resolutions

 

[hans030390]

I recently purchased a Panasonic TC-50PS64 plasma from Costco (apparently not stocked anymore), and I'm definitely a fan. This model in particular had lower input lag than most other recent plasma TV models. I'm curious how your TV will compare.

I'd be interested to see if you're able to get actual 120Hz from this TV. I know some TVs can be "overclocked" to run at 120Hz.

 

[Chad_Thunder]

I agree. That's why right now I am stuck between poor quality LCD/LED monitors/TVs and Plasma TVs that are only 1080P and aren't optimal for PC usage (say if you want to do MS Word or Excel for 8-10 hours for work) because of burn-in over time. I am hoping OLED technology becomes affordable in the next 3-5 years so I can upgrade to something much better. I have a plasma for my home theatre and every single LED/LCD pales in comparison when it comes to accurate colors, viewing angles, response time/motion blur and deep black levels. That's why even if they bring 8K to LCDs, it doesn't mean much to me because LCD/LED image quality is still sub-par the minute you want to watch sports or movies.

As of now oled has worse motion than lcd for heavens sake they are still using sample and hold and burn in is a serious problem

I share that opinion. However, on a 1080p display (such as this), 42-inches means a truly horrendous PPI and dot pitch combination for use as a computer monitor on a desk. Selecting even LOWER resolutions will only exacerbate this problem, regardless of improvements to motion handling that one can achieve at these lower resolutions

The panel was refreshing at 120hz/1080p but with an image sent by the scaler, once I purchase a dual link cable I should be set for any resolution

I think there is a bit of a false perception about resolution because of 6 bit lcds, when you give the visual system enough colors and contrast to work with you just magically increased optical resolution tenfold versus adding a bunch of similar pixels

I recently purchased a Panasonic TC-50PS64 plasma from Costco (apparently not stocked anymore), and I'm definitely a fan. This model in particular had lower input lag than most other recent plasma TV models. I'm curious how your TV will compare.

I'd be interested to see if you're able to get actual 120Hz from this TV. I know some TVs can be "overclocked" to run at 120Hz.

120hz is as sure as death my friend right now I'm trying to work out how to fairly test input lag, thinking a DVI splitter with dual link support (does that even exist?)

 

[blackened23]

Based on what? Reaching 120Hz on low resolutions? Even at 1080p the PPI of this thing would be a nightmare, unless you're gaming from several metres away.

Uh, gaming from 10+ feet away is the norm with a big screen TV? Come on now, nobody uses a big screen from 1 foot away. You're making a big deal over meaningless stuff.

I game from my couch on a big screen from time to time and from normal viewing distances it is fine. 1080p from 10 feet away looks glorious. PPI is meaningless without being in the context of viewing distance. Nobody sits directly in front of a big screen for viewing purposes, give me a break.

 

[Ben90]

Well the manual was right, this is THE holy grail of gaming displays



I just pushed 800x600@120hz and 1024x768@100hz over vga from my laptop, using the "-freq 120" switch on cs 1.6 I can tell you this is at least as fast as CRT possibly faster

I literally can not wait to get one of these home with Dual DVI

My Iiyama 514 can hit 210Hz at 800x600. 120Hz at that resolution is about what most bargain bin Dell CRTs could do.

 

[Chad_Thunder]

My Iiyama 514 can hit 210Hz at 800x600. 120Hz at that resolution is about what most bargain bin Dell CRTs could do.

I think I must suck at communicating, the PF50 can do 1080/120hz but the response time is such that it doesn't even blur at 60hz

Anyhow, I'd love to see 210Hz back in my lanning days I was the only one who could spot 100hz<>120hz but the image degrades after 85hz

 

[hjalti8]

hmmm I have never heard of the PF series. How does it compare to the ST/GT/VT/ZT series?

Ive got 50" GT60 and I love it. In terms of picture quality it completely rapes my catleap. I havent tested it for gaming yet but according to hdtvtest.co.uk it is supposed to pretty fast.

ANSI checkerboard for the GT60:

ANSI checkerboard for an avg IPS-panel(Philips 55PFL6008):

up to 50x brighter blacks on an ips panel. In a dimly lit room there is no comparison.

This is the closest you can get to oled like IQ. Too bad plasma panels will get burn in if used as monitors .. but gaming for short periods of time is fine(or play games without HUD).

 

[Chad_Thunder]

hmmm I have never heard of the PF series. How does it compare to the ST/GT/VT/ZT series?

Ive got 50" GT60 and I love it. In terms of picture quality it completely rapes my catleap.

Stephen Withers reviewed the BT300

In the comments he mentions the panel is the same as the PF series of that year (PF30)

 

[bystander36]

Until you get it to work at 1080p@120hz, I'm not sold.

 

[JAG87]

Pass. I'd rather have a 4K light weight display with infinite contrast and uses 50% less power (therefore emits less than half of the heat). There is no 120Hz video content, and it's already hard enough for GPUs to maintain 60 fps with modern games.

This is not the time to buy a new TV.