Probably, if you jammed the throttles to full-forward, held the parking brakes until the engines reached max RPM, and had full flaps - which is not normal takeoff conditions.
EKKC
Diamond Member
- May 31, 2005
- 5,895
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
No joke, I imagine with that much sorrow he'd make himself be the last one dead
i think they cant pick which runway to fly out of, its the ATC that does that, someone is going to get fired or possibly sued.
my friend works in a commuter airport in an ATC in NJ, i should ask him about this incident.
While I hate to get on the speculation bandwagon....
One would think the controller would know exactly where the plane is and its direction with or without visibility.
then again, I don't pretend to have any idea about this kind of stuff. :shrug;
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
- 701
- 126
Originally posted by: EKKC
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
No joke, I imagine with that much sorrow he'd make himself be the last one dead
i think they cant pick which runway to fly out of, its the ATC that does that, someone is going to get fired or possibly sued.
my friend works in a commuter airport in an ATC in NJ, i should ask him about this incident.
Looks like the pilot was told to go to one runway and went to the wrong one in darkness/rain. It's a very sad day in Lexington, KY!
Scouzer
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2001
- 10,358
- 5
- 0
Originally posted by: spidey07
While I hate to get on the speculation bandwagon....
One would think the controller would know exactly where the plane is and its direction with or without visibility.
then again, I don't pretend to have any idea about this kind of stuff. :shrug;
We do know where they are. However, if we cannot see them due to fog or whatever, we have to trust where the pilot says he is. Clearly the pilot said he was entering one runway to depart, so ATC cleared him, but he was actually on the other runway.
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
IMHO, crew rest is going to be a big factor of the NTSB report. I believe Comair had the crew on overnight duty. Also interesting to note is that the NTSB has already said (And I just confirmed on flightaware.com) that two flights left just minutes before Comair 191, 6:02AM and 6:04AM. So why didn't they follow those two flights?
And just an odd sidenote, this makes the third flight 191 crash. Delta 191 crashed on Aug 2, 1985 and killed 137 people. American 191 crashed on May 25, 1979 and kill 273 people (somewhat disturbing photo of this flight: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/AA191-bank.png. I think it's about time airlines retired that particular flight #.
And just an odd sidenote, this makes the third flight 191 crash. Delta 191 crashed on Aug 2, 1985 and killed 137 people. American 191 crashed on May 25, 1979 and kill 273 people (somewhat disturbing photo of this flight: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/AA191-bank.png. I think it's about time airlines retired that particular flight #.
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
Originally posted by: Scouzer
Originally posted by: spidey07
While I hate to get on the speculation bandwagon....
One would think the controller would know exactly where the plane is and its direction with or without visibility.
then again, I don't pretend to have any idea about this kind of stuff. :shrug;
We do know where they are. However, if we cannot see them due to fog or whatever, we have to trust where the pilot says he is. Clearly the pilot said he was entering one runway to depart, so ATC cleared him, but he was actually on the other runway.
NTSB has said that the pilots radioed that there were at 22.
EKKC
Diamond Member
- May 31, 2005
- 5,895
- 0
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Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Scouzer
Originally posted by: spidey07
While I hate to get on the speculation bandwagon....
One would think the controller would know exactly where the plane is and its direction with or without visibility.
then again, I don't pretend to have any idea about this kind of stuff. :shrug;
We do know where they are. However, if we cannot see them due to fog or whatever, we have to trust where the pilot says he is. Clearly the pilot said he was entering one runway to depart, so ATC cleared him, but he was actually on the other runway.
NTSB has said that the pilots radioed that there were at 22.
if so, wont the pilots know before they even took off that they're on a much shorter runway? instead of forcing it and pulling the plane up, couldn't they have tried to "slam on the brakes" and force the plane to stay on the ground and attempt to slow down, yeah you're go off the runway but at least you wont have to head up a few hundred feet up and crash down into a fireball of death...
well apparently you know more about this than I.
I just "assumed" ATC had position and telemetry/direction of every plane.
sorry to geek out.
I did what I didn't want to do - try to figure out who to blame. Bad spidey.
sad accident....just that....an accident. It's one of those "hind sight is 20/20 kind of things'. You can over analyze it out the wazzoo, but it's difficutl to put yourself in the position of everybody involved.
As an insider - do you think there will be mandated countermeasures put into place?
Originally posted by: EKKC
if so, wont the pilots know before they even took off that they're on a much shorter runway? instead of forcing it and pulling the plane up, couldn't they have tried to "slam on the brakes" and force the plane to stay on the ground and attempt to slow down, yeah you're go off the runway but at least you wont have to head up a few hundred feet up and crash down into a fireball of death...
<---not an expert, not a pilot, just knows enough via hobbies about the principles of flight.
But once you commit to the take off, you are committed. the plane needed some 5-6K feet for a safe takeoff. pilot ran out of runway and did the best he could. my only expertise in this area is from the hobbyist (and I ain't in da plane) arena.
From the picture's I've seen, pilot never really got it off the ground, nor had the ground speed to make it happn.
It sucks. It's a terrible accident.
EKKC
Diamond Member
- May 31, 2005
- 5,895
- 0
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Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: EKKC
if so, wont the pilots know before they even took off that they're on a much shorter runway? instead of forcing it and pulling the plane up, couldn't they have tried to "slam on the brakes" and force the plane to stay on the ground and attempt to slow down, yeah you're go off the runway but at least you wont have to head up a few hundred feet up and crash down into a fireball of death...
<---not an expert, not a pilot, just knows enough via hobbies about the principles of flight.
But once you commit to the take off, you are committed. the plane needed some 5-6K feet for a safe takeoff. pilot ran out of runway and did the best he could. my only expertise in this area is from the hobbyist (and I ain't in da plane) arena.
From the picture's I've seen, pilot never really got it off the ground, nor had the ground speed to make it happn.
It sucks. It's a terrible accident.
i see what you're saying. i was just thinking "coulda/shoulda" scenarios that could've prevented the sad loss of lives which does nothing to help at this point. there were honeymooners on board, how extra tragic for them and families...
yeah, I find it hard to seperate my reaction......heck just look at some of my posts. I'm trying so desparately to look at this incident objectively. And it's darn difficult to do so.
I'll keep all those involved and I mean everyone) in my thoughts tonight.
EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
- 20,079
- 15
- 81
A friend of mine that I had from Church was on that Plane.
Larry Turner a nice, sweet, gentle man. One of the best people I've ever met. Quick to smile and to shake a hand. I spoke with him last night as I saw him out at dinner with his wife. I cannot believe he's gone.
He leaves 3 children behind. The last just left for college last week. He got to see them grow up to adulthood. For the family my prayers go out as Larry was the strongest of Christians and is watching from above now. RIP Larry Turner and to all the victoms of flight 5191.
Larry Turner a nice, sweet, gentle man. One of the best people I've ever met. Quick to smile and to shake a hand. I spoke with him last night as I saw him out at dinner with his wife. I cannot believe he's gone.
He leaves 3 children behind. The last just left for college last week. He got to see them grow up to adulthood. For the family my prayers go out as Larry was the strongest of Christians and is watching from above now. RIP Larry Turner and to all the victoms of flight 5191.
EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
- 20,079
- 15
- 81
Originally posted by: NFS4
Sad
Please don't let this be terrorism related. PLEASE, PLEASE!! The politicians will find yet ANOTHER reason to put fear into the minds of Americans
:roll:
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
Originally posted by: spidey07
well apparently you know more about this than I.
I just "assumed" ATC had position and telemetry/direction of every plane.
sorry to geek out.
I did what I didn't want to do - try to figure out who to blame. Bad spidey.
sad accident....just that....an accident. It's one of those "hind sight is 20/20 kind of things'. You can over analyze it out the wazzoo, but it's difficutl to put yourself in the position of everybody involved.
As an insider - do you think there will be mandated countermeasures put into place?
That type of technology has been around for years, but LEX would not have something like that in place. Airport Surface Detection Equipment is only available at the busier airports in the US.
http://nas-architecture.faa.gov/nas5/mechanism/mech_data.cfm?mid=232
thank you. As I understand it, it's visual only. On the radio this morning they had a pilot familiar with the airport describing what happens during take off.
This is dominating the news here in KY.
MotionMan
Lifer
- Jan 11, 2006
- 17,124
- 12
- 81
Why are runways numbered so strangely?
If there are two runways, why not call them "No. 1" and "No. 2".?
Why do they name runways like "22 Left" and "22 Right"? Isn't that just a recipe for disaster. Why can't they just give them different numbers?
MotionMan
If there are two runways, why not call them "No. 1" and "No. 2".?
Why do they name runways like "22 Left" and "22 Right"? Isn't that just a recipe for disaster. Why can't they just give them different numbers?
MotionMan
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