Pizza Hut Delivery guy fired for defending himself (with a gun)

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Latin translation "let robbers and thieves steal from you lest you be sued"

It's sad that robbers are protected by law in their chosen profession and that reisting them and defending your property makes you liable...Is it any wonder why 99% of the population hates lawyers.

Hey, don't blame me - I only work here!

I note you're the one who suggested he would have been better off had he "just shot him with a silencer and pretended nothing happened," (now THERE's some stellar citizenship!) so under the circumstances I'm not sure I care what you think of my profession anyway.

 

[Turkey22]

Damn this makes me want pizza for lunch.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: JImmyK
I dont think any of you are real shooters (those who are laughing at the fact that he only hit him with 10 of the 14 rounds). we have a sizable colletion with main highlights being a 22 long rifle target pistol S&W, beratta 92FS, 1911 colt, and a Desert Eagle 44. The rest are generic sig saurs, and glocks etc.

It is very difficult for example to fire off an entire 20 round clip of our beretta at 7 yards and hit a 10 inch by 10 inch target everytime, ESPECIALLY if you are drawing from a holster, and your adrenaline is pumping, very tough.

PS you can also fire off that entire 20 round clip in less then 3 or 4 seconds, its tough to fire 20 rounds, in a semi auto pistol and be accurate if its a bore thats 9mm and above, especially with a beretta. Gun Type also makes a huge difference, for example I am much more accurate with our 1911 colt which has a much larger round then the 92FS.

You're right, I prob would have had about the same/worse hit ratio, I was just surprised he unloaded the whole clip.

Here's a pic of my collection: .Collection The mini Glock got sold last month, still looking for a replacement. Am thinking of a Glock 33, my cop buddies are recommending against a 10 mm model 20...

I was in the middle of an assault & popped off 2 rounds with a revolver, & it was difficult to not fire all the rounds, but I did not want to be without ammo.

Most altercations involve 3 shots.

Funny thing about Concealed carry permits, some misdemeanor convictions preclude you from ever getting one.

For instance in Florida, the state that started it all:

Possible Reasons for Ineligibility:

The physical inability to handle a firearm safely.
A felony conviction (unless civil and firearm rights have been restored by the convicting authority).
Having adjudication withheld or sentence suspended on a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence unless three years have elapsed since probation or other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled.
A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of violence in the last three years.
A conviction for violation of controlled substance laws or multiple arrests for such offenses.
A record of drug or alcohol abuse.
Two or more DUI convictions within the previous three years.
Being committed to a mental institution or adjudged incompetent or mentally defective.
Failing to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm.
Having been issued a domestic violence injunction or an injunction against repeat violence that is currently in force.
Renouncement of U.S. citizenship.
A dishonorable discharge from the armed forces.
Being a fugitive from justice.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/eligible.html

When I've been pulled over for speeding & given my usual warning (no tickets for years, now, just warnings), the officers are pretty nice after I tell them I have a CCW permit, they know almost instantly that they have a legit citizen pulled over, since they know I have never had a serious misdemeanor/felony conviction/restraining order, etc.

It's unfortunate corporations put folks in harm's way & then make it difficult to protect yourself.

Gotta love some police depts though, check out this delivery guy sting by the Richmond police: Richmond Pizza Robbery Sting

Good article...but:
"The shooting is being investigated by the Contra Costa County District Attorney's office and the Richmond Police Department.

Following police protocol, the officers involved in the shooting have been placed on administrative leave. "

You shoot a bad guy who has a gun trained on you and you get administrative leave? Why not a pitcher of beer instead?

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: NitemareGood article...but:
"The shooting is being investigated by the Contra Costa County District Attorney's office and the Richmond Police Department.

Following police protocol, the officers involved in the shooting have been placed on administrative leave. "

You shoot a bad guy who has a gun trained on you and you get administrative leave? Why not a pitcher of beer instead?

Any time there is a shooting, at most PD's it is SOP to put the shooter on administrative leave. You could jump in front of a bullet meant for the police chief, in view of the mayor, then shoot the guy who shot at the chief, and you'd still get put on adminstrative leave.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Good article...but:
"The shooting is being investigated by the Contra Costa County District Attorney's office and the Richmond Police Department.

Following police protocol, the officers involved in the shooting have been placed on administrative leave. "

You shoot a bad guy who has a gun trained on you and you get administrative leave? Why not a pitcher of beer instead?

Standard procedure, it keeps the dept looking good. As much as they may deserve it the general public doesn't like the idea of a bunch of cops sitting around buying beers for the officers who shot some gang banger.

Viper GTS

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Latin translation "let robbers and thieves steal from you lest you be sued"

It's sad that robbers are protected by law in their chosen profession and that reisting them and defending your property makes you liable...Is it any wonder why 99% of the population hates lawyers.

Hey, don't blame me - I only work here!

I note you're the one who suggested he would have been better off had he "just shot him with a silencer and pretended nothing happened," (now THERE's some stellar citizenship!) so under the circumstances I'm not sure I care what you think of my profession anyway.

I'm not the one that makes it nearly impossible to defend yourself without worrying about getting sued by the victim or his family. Face it, you work in a F'ed up profession.

When someone can break into your property, get injured doing so and then be able to sue you. That is criminal.

It used to be that if you shoot someone in self-defense you had better kill him or else he could sue....now you can't even do that because the perps family can sue. I'm sorry but I think higher of DMV employees then lawyers and the legal system as a whole.

FYI, I can't even get a Concealed Carry here because the Sheriff has to sign off on all permits and he will not even after you have jumped through 3 months of hoops, simply because he does not want citizens carrying handguns.

I don't like the fact that the judicial branch has usurped my right to bear arms and my right to defend my life and personal property

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

FYI, I can't even get a Concealed Carry here because the Sheriff has to sign off on all permits and he will not even after you have jumped through 3 months of hoops, simply because he does not want citizens carrying handguns.

I don't like the fact that the judicial branch has usurped my right to bear arms and my right to defend my life and personal property

You need to appeal his decision: http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

Your sheriff had 30 days to deny, had 7 days after the denial to notice you of his decision.

& get these folks to help you: Grass Roots North Carolina

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

I'm not the one that makes it nearly impossible to defend yourself without worrying about getting sued by the victim or his family. Face it, you work in a F'ed up profession.

When someone can break into your property, get injured doing so and then be able to sue you. That is criminal.

It used to be that if you shoot someone in self-defense you had better kill him or else he could sue....now you can't even do that because the perps family can sue. I'm sorry but I think higher of DMV employees then lawyers and the legal system as a whole.

FYI, I can't even get a Concealed Carry here because the Sheriff has to sign off on all permits and he will not even after you have jumped through 3 months of hoops, simply because he does not want citizens carrying handguns.

I don't like the fact that the judicial branch has usurped my right to bear arms and my right to defend my life and personal property

I wouldn't say my profession is any more F-ed up than any other one (though there are unquestionably many lawyers who are mercenary and self-serving). As it happens I am a criminal litigator for the federal government, and I serve the public.

The principles you describe are nothing new, for better or worse. The concept of a decedent's family being able to sue for wrongful death is not a recent development.

Moreover, concealed carry laws are generally more liberal today than they have ever been before in my (33-year) lifetime. More and more states have embraced the concept of concealed carry, including generally liberal states like Minnesota. I am a gun owner in a CC state, though I have never particularly wanted a CPL (I have been mugged by violence twice, as it happens, and I can say with some authority that the situations would have been made worse by my carrying a pistol, not better). I am generally in favor of allowing CC, but it certainly imparts a great deal of responsibility on the carrier, legally, morally, and otherwise.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
No contract, even a contract for employment is allowed to prevent you from protecting your life. That's why the army issues weapons...

Right, but that is not what Pizza Hut is claiming. They are merely stating he couldn't carry a firearm to do so. That's the rules, you can elect not to take the job.

I find it extremely odd this guy has been a pizza boy for 20 years. That in and of itself is suspicious.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
On average, an American policeman hits his target with less than 15% of his rounds. 10 out of 14 is pretty damned good.

Well considering the average policeman isn't shooting at someone coming into their vehicle....at that range (I'd imagine within arm's reach) HTF could you miss unless a bullet passed clean through the previous one's wound 😉

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
HTF could you miss unless a bullet passed clean through the previous one's wound 😉

Using the same firearm handling skills that I saw a cop display... two minutes after getting his pistol loaded at the range, he had managed to barrel sweep every single person at the range, including himself. Thankfully, he was asked to leave, and if I recall correctly, the owner of the range sent his department a letter complaining about the lax gun safety displayed by their officers.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Using the same firearm handling skills that I saw a cop display... two minutes after getting his pistol loaded at the range, he had managed to barrel sweep every single person at the range, including himself. Thankfully, he was asked to leave, and if I recall correctly, the owner of the range sent his department a letter complaining about the lax gun safety displayed by their officers.

That is pretty surprising. I know cops don't spend a LOT of time on the range in general, but that sounds like a training/discipline issue, and I would have assumed any armed policeman would get decent training - even the most elementary pistol shooting class repeatedly emphasizes the importance of barrel discipline.

 

[jyates]

Well, it will certainly remind me to not scream to the pizza delivery
guy....."Your pizza or your life !" the next time he delivers to my house 🙂

He knew the company rules when he went to work for them. And losing a pizza
delivery job isn't quite like losing a a big cushy job.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: Mookow

Using the same firearm handling skills that I saw a cop display... two minutes after getting his pistol loaded at the range, he had managed to barrel sweep every single person at the range, including himself. Thankfully, he was asked to leave, and if I recall correctly, the owner of the range sent his department a letter complaining about the lax gun safety displayed by their officers.

That is pretty surprising. I know cops don't spend a LOT of time on the range in general, but that sounds like a training/discipline issue, and I would have assumed any armed policeman would get decent training - even the most elementary pistol shooting class repeatedly emphasizes the importance of barrel discipline.

What's a barrel sweep?

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: Mookow

Using the same firearm handling skills that I saw a cop display... two minutes after getting his pistol loaded at the range, he had managed to barrel sweep every single person at the range, including himself. Thankfully, he was asked to leave, and if I recall correctly, the owner of the range sent his department a letter complaining about the lax gun safety displayed by their officers.

That is pretty surprising. I know cops don't spend a LOT of time on the range in general, but that sounds like a training/discipline issue, and I would have assumed any armed policeman would get decent training - even the most elementary pistol shooting class repeatedly emphasizes the importance of barrel discipline.

What's a barrel sweep?

It means pointing the muzzle (end of barrel) towards people.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

That is pretty surprising. I know cops don't spend a LOT of time on the range in general, but that sounds like a training/discipline issue, and I would have assumed any armed policeman would get decent training - even the most elementary pistol shooting class repeatedly emphasizes the importance of barrel discipline.

What's a barrel sweep?

like a chimney sweep...a small boy the army guys hire to crawl down the howitzers and scrub 'em out from the inside.



😉

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'd rather lose my job than my life...he made the right choice.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
That's retarded. The guy was supposed to give up his life because PH says so? What a crock. Last time I'm ordering from them if that's how much they value their employees.

Did PH actually tell the guy that firearms were against policy? Who says he even knew? Most jobs have a big form to sign and they say this is just general policy stuff...

Who said he had to work at Pizza Hut?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Anyone else notice he plugged the guy with the ENTIRE clip? 15 rounds.

Yeah, but he only hit him 10 times.

Bad shooting, he should use his time off at the range.

Viper GTS

perhaps he didn't want to drop the pizza in his other hand lol🙂 one handed shootin while balancing a pizza!



eh, its not like the movies, people don't just drop from a hole through their torso or whatever. unless you get a headshot ur gonna get attacked anyways. shoot until the guy drops ..

but yea, now that pizza hut knows about this guy being armed, he's too big of a liability to have around.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: Mookow

Using the same firearm handling skills that I saw a cop display... two minutes after getting his pistol loaded at the range, he had managed to barrel sweep every single person at the range, including himself. Thankfully, he was asked to leave, and if I recall correctly, the owner of the range sent his department a letter complaining about the lax gun safety displayed by their officers.

That is pretty surprising. I know cops don't spend a LOT of time on the range in general, but that sounds like a training/discipline issue, and I would have assumed any armed policeman would get decent training - even the most elementary pistol shooting class repeatedly emphasizes the importance of barrel discipline.

Some people shouldnt be allowed near firearms. This cop was one of them. I find that a fair number of cops seem to think "I'm a cop, I know 'stuff' about guns, this means I dont have to pay attention to what I am doing with one". Which is exactly the opposite of what you get taught, ie. if you know one thing about guns, it is that you have to pay constant attention to what you are doing and where it is pointed.

Most cops arent that bad about firearm discipline. It takes them a solid 5 minutes to barrel sweep everyone in the room 😉

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: minendo
He agreed to follow company policy when hired. He chose not to.

True, but a relevant question is whether corporations, which after all are simply legal fictions created by the authority of our elected governments that supposedly represent us, should have the ability to enforce a contract that abrogates one or your Constitutional rights. The Constitution exists to protect us against government, and despite the fact that we often treat corporations like people, corporations are intangible, immortal entities consisting of a set of legal agreements between parties, which sounds much more like a government than a person to much.

 

[Biggerhammer]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
You make it sound as if the 'frat boys' were constantly trying to beat your ass because you brought them some pizza. What fraternities? It looks like you just decided to add in some crap to spice your story up but I'd be interested in hearing about the occasions where you had frat boys swinging at you who were too drunk to fight.

Specifically, I could count on at least one Sig Ep (Sigma Phi Epsilon) frat boy trying to hassle me at least once a month. I don't know if they were all idiots or if they just had a small, dedicated core of them but Sig Ep was the worst, followed by the football frat (whose letters I can't recall). Other fraternities and the sororities were seldom as much trouble- they were lousy tippers but what the heck, they're college students.

Plymouth State College (Plymouth NH), 1994-1999, working for Wah Kee, Hong Kong Gardens, Pizza 174 and Jenrons. Mostly Wah Kee.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Nitemare

FYI, I can't even get a Concealed Carry here because the Sheriff has to sign off on all permits and he will not even after you have jumped through 3 months of hoops, simply because he does not want citizens carrying handguns.

I don't like the fact that the judicial branch has usurped my right to bear arms and my right to defend my life and personal property

You need to appeal his decision: http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

Your sheriff had 30 days to deny, had 7 days after the denial to notice you of his decision.

& get these folks to help you: Grass Roots North Carolina

Thanks, guy!!!

 

[imported_Aelius]

No one mentioned this, probably cause no one knows. =p

If you shoot someone empty the entire clip into them and make 100% sure that if you do shoot you shoot to kill. It doesn't matter if they are robing you in the street or breaking in your home.

This information comes from a friendly neighborhood police officer. (not me)

In fact I have had half a dozen cops tell me the exact same thing.

Apperantly it "looks" better in court if you appear to be a frightened average joe who happend to be armed and who happed to be acting more out of reflex and fear than "training".

It all looks better in court in case someone tries to sue. It perpetuates a bad clich'e but thats exactly how you want to appear in court or else the jury might decide your guilty.

Is it stupid? Yes but that's how it works.

So this pizza guy is in the know. Obviously he has talked to his share of cops.

It looks very bad if you shoot some guy with a single shot in the head. But even if you do and he is dead, make sure you empty the clip into the guy.

I'm not joking.


I won't say what judges have told me. That's privileged info. =p

 

[alkemyst]

1) I don't know the how's or why's this same conversation got brought up with the same answer from a half dozen cops....but it's typical for validation to quote in such a way.

Saying to shoot to kill always is a good way to get in trouble...excessive force is commonplace in our courtrooms whether it is right or not. Homeowner's get sued everyday by criminals hurt while breaking in. If your life is in danger shoot to end that risk, whether it's killing the perp or maiming them, etc. If everyone would know that the criminal would not have hurt you and you kill them, it's going to be you in the hot seat. This of course depends on a lot of things such as state laws and even the local judge and how they view things.

The other aspect is once you unload your clip or chambers you are not unarmed pretty much. Chances are if he has friends in the area you are screwed.

I would definitely not follow up a kill shot by walking over and emptying my gun into someone....all it would take is to prove you straddled someone while firing into them...a lucky headshot is much easier to defend.